Show us your TIES

[herringbonekid]

when does tartan become plaid ?

i know there's a difference but i can't say what it is.

 

[Flying Scotsman]

when does tartan become plaid ?

i know there's a difference but i can't say what it is.

They're used interchangeably by most people, BUT...there is a thing called a "plaid" (and sometimes pronounced with a long "a"). It's the big fringed, pleated thingie that goes over your shoulder for very formal wear (or, if you're a piper, there's a "piper's plaid" that's a little different).

And you never, EVER wear a tartan tie with a kilt.

Anybody have any good sources for vintage ties in the Los Angeles area?

 

[Fletch]

belly warmers, gravy bibs, soup strainers, coffee filters, Xmas dogs...

(click each pic to enlarge)



These are but 23 of a collection of some 300 (not all vintage) that I've been adding to here and there for over 20 years.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

when does tartan become plaid ?

i know there's a difference but i can't say what it is.

Interesting. Tartan = specific type of plaid. A tartan would be a plaid in the american usage, but a plaid is not always a tartan.A tartan is a plaid assigned to a specific group of people in the mid C19th. The absurd use of bright colours gives away their relatively modern origins. Most "real" kilts before the modern era were made in dirty browns, greens and purples. you know, the colours you'll find in the north of Scotland. none of this bright red stuff . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartan#Clan_tartans

bk

 

[Zemke Fan]

Welcome, Will...

The photo is of the late Duke of Windsor's tie rack. A number of the depicted neckties were worn by the Duke in photos taken in the 1930's.

Interesting blog you have, sir. I'm sure you're going to be a big contributor to our knowledge base!

 

[Fletch]

Most "real" kilts before the modern era were made in dirty browns, greens and purples. you know, the colours you'll find in the north of Scotland. none of this bright red stuff . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartan#Clan_tartans

bk

In the Nationalmuseet in Copenhagen, you can see reconstructions of Viking textiles predating 1000 AD. Among these were shawls with what we'd call simple windowpane plaids: setts of one or two lines in one color, say, sky blue on a brown ground.

But per the above source, it was a Celtic idea - dating to the 3d century or earlier. Might there have been some primitive cross-cultural encounters? Headbanging? Pillaging? Maybe even trade???

 

[Flying Scotsman]

In the Nationalmuseet in Copenhagen, you can see reconstructions of Viking textiles predating 1000 AD. Among these were shawls with what we'd call simple windowpane plaids: setts of one or two lines in one color, say, sky blue on a brown ground.

But per the above source, it was a Celtic idea - dating to the 3d century or earlier. Might there have been some primitive cross-cultural encounters? Headbanging? Pillaging? Maybe even trade???

Boatloads. Literally.

They have found some very old tartan pieces in archaeological sites, but they're usually so faded it's hard to tell what they would have looked like originally. The previous poster was correct, though...the idea of specific tartans for specific families is a recent invention. Previously, the clans in a certain area would have worn plaids ("philamor"s, actually) using locally available dyes, which would have been nothing like the bright modern aniline dyes. They would have been muted greens, oranges, browns, perhaps reddish colors, yellows, etc.

The best-looking tartans, in my opinion, are those that are older or closely based on older setts. These tend to be simpler, bolder in design (if not color), and less visually cluttered. The more recent the sett, usually, the "busier" it is and the less "tartan-like", I think. And there are some truly God-awful "tartan-like" patterns that aren't really tartan, also.

I don't have much problem with the modern kilt and the setts being less than a few hundred years old...the idea is more what's important (unless one wants to wear "the thing from hell", as we call the true "great kilt" or philamor). Pride of heritage and all that. And, after all, lots of clothing items today are corruptions of older (sometimes much older) items of attire. Ties, for example. And wingtip shoes with "broguing" (to keep the Scottish angle).

You can get kilts in muted, "ancient" reproduction colors, if you wish. And hey..."modern" kilt designs are at least a few hundred years old

 

[Baron Kurtz]

As hinted above, there seems to be little knowledge of what the pre-settlement tartans looked like. Therefore it is impossible to get an accurate modern-loomed tartan. Mostly from this issue comes the reluctance amongst politically active modern Scottish youth to embrace tartans.

Unfortunately, the "ancients" are simply muted versions of the same made-up patterns of the C18th-19th. Though i hear there is some relatively accurate stuff being made in the borders, and it looks like a simple check pattern in black and white (generally).

bk

 

[Baron Kurtz]

The Gods of vintage clothing . . .

. . . are vicious, evil Gods. As soon as you mention that you hate something, they come along in bucketloads. From a thrift store yesterday (I also got a whole pile of ties i like from the 20s/30s/40s):

Around the clock:

1: plaid

2: Hunting Fraser

4: MacBeth

5: Weir

7: MacMillan

9: Calhoun

11: Unnamed

All the named ones are Botany brand and 1930s. I guess this chap REALLY liked his tartans, eh?

bk

p.s. If the Gods are listening: I REALLY, REALLY HATE STEAMER TRUNKS PACKED WITH MINT CONDITION 30s SUITS IN MY SIZE, NEXT TO STEAMER TRUNKS PACK WITH SAME IN VERY LARGE SIZES. LET'S JUST SAY THAT 8 SUCH STEAMER TRUNKS WOULD REALLY ANNOY ME.

 

[Feraud]

Call me crazy but I like 'em. [huh]

 

[Baron Kurtz]

you're crazy.

bk

 

[Fletch]

Call me crazy but I like 'em. [huh]

Me too...not every day of course...just when I want the feel of misty hills, roaring fires and neat whisky. I'm not about to start liking haggis or tossing cabers.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

You guys will like this one, then. A 4-sided tie from wartime Britain. 4 horrible tartan ties for the price of one! BellyTank also has one of these.

bk

 

[Feraud]

you're crazy.

bk

haha, I saw that one coming! lol

 

[Baron Kurtz]

you set 'em up, i'll knock 'em down.

bk

 

[Flying Scotsman]

You guys will like this one, then. A 4-sided tie from wartime Britain. 4 horrible tartan ties for the price of one! BellyTank also has one of these.

bk

Oh. My. God.

Those are awful. They couldn't even pick decent tartans!

My sympathies for the British during WWII just shot even higher (if they had to wear things like this!).

 

[Baron Kurtz]

BTs one is better, i think. but not much.

bk

 

[Fletch]

Themes

(click to enlarge)

 

[Baron Kurtz]

The rest of 'em from yesterday . . .

The others from yesterday's hunt.

2 40s ties.

3 from the late 20s/early 30s. I love the cube one to the right.

And my favourite one from this hunt. Probably because it's the only black vintage tie i own.

And the liner is cool. States (what i can read): "Silko Line. This entire tie lined with silk and hand tailored assuring the wearer complete satisfaction". There was an article in Apparel Arts in 1932 decrying the practice of "silk Tipping", which was the lining of only the tips of the tie in silk and passing them off as "silk-lined" ties. Clearly this company wanted their buyers to be absolutely sure they were getting the most silk for their money. this is a satin silk tie.

bk

 

[adamgottschalk]

(click to enlarge)

I like all those ties. But especially the saxophone one. Is that one orange one in there a tower with smoke surrounding it? Cool stuff. Adam