Hidden in Plain Schott: the 613SH Perfecto

[Tom71]

New around here, but been lurking for a while. Looking to tap into the wisdom of the lounge crowd. Picked up this p613s size L from the classifieds this week. Need some objective feedback on fit. The chest, arms and shoulders feel right but the body seems pretty voluminous on me. I'm a 42 in Vanson with a 41 chest and 31/32 waist. This jacket is really nice, comfortable and badass...so I don't trust myself.

I like the fit on you. This is not the most tapered pattern, so I doubt it could look any better. I have to say, this jacket looks better on you than it ever did on Schotts Website.
I am with @Aloysius : if you wear it closed, engage the belt to adjust the waist.

 

[JasonY]

So, thinking about what you've been saying about the belt...
I cinched it down but had to go beyond the current holes. If I'm going to make this a keeper (which I would like to do) I'll need to find someone to add a couple adjustment holes on the belt and probably shorten the buckle side by 1.5".

 

[JasonY]

So, thinking about what you've been saying about the belt...
I cinched it down but had to go beyond the current holes. If I'm going to make this a keeper (which I would like to do) I'll need to find someone to add a couple adjustment holes on the belt and probably shorten the buckle side by 1.5".
View attachment 680107 View attachment 680109

For reference, thin thermal long sleeve plus t-shirt.

 

[cajunfries]

I have a new 618hh in size 34 if anyone is interested

 

[stenaloom]

Does anybody have the Graded Specs file for the 613sh? For some reason I can't get an answer from Schott.

 

[Aloysius]

Does anybody have the Graded Specs file for the 613sh? For some reason I can't get an answer from Schott.

Email via the box on the bottom right of the homepage.

 

[Tom71]

Does anybody have the Graded Specs file for the 613sh? For some reason I can't get an answer from Schott.

Page 5 of this thread has sizes 40-44 if that’s what you’re after.

 

[RJD257]

New around here, but been lurking for a while. Looking to tap into the wisdom of the lounge crowd. Picked up this p613s size L from the classifieds this week. Need some objective feedback on fit. The chest, arms and shoulders feel right but the body seems pretty voluminous on me. I'm a 42 in Vanson with a 41 chest and 31/32 waist. This jacket is really nice, comfortable and badass...so I don't trust myself.

As @Tom71 pointed out, the modern cut of the Schott 613 & 618 has been altered since the 50's and is now "boxier" to put it politely.
IMHO, The Holy Grail of all Double-Rider Cross Zips is the 1950's Durable (...but that's a topic for a couple other threads around here...). That had what is known as a a "Hero Cut" with much broader shoulders & narrower waist (....like blazers & suits from that era as well...) As the "average" American body geometry has changed in the past 70 years (...and not necessarily for the better - lol...), the patterns & jackets have changed to fit the majority of potential customers/clients.
The 613SH is the only model currently in production that is closest to the original 1950's Schott pattern
(...for more granular details, search for posts by @jeo ...)

When I decided I wanted a (new) Horsehide Jacket I could mold to MY body, I took a couple of trips to the SchottNYC Manhattan Showroom on Black Friday Weekend 2023, and brought my thickest sherpa-fleece hoodie with me to judge fit. I am normally between a 40-42 jacket. To my surprise, in order to get the shoulder & chest fit I wanted, I had to go all the way UP to a 46 in the 613HH. So as someone else also said, you know your body the best, and go more by feel than by what is printed on the label or "should's."

Here are a few pix "off the rack" in the store in Nov 2023, and one final pic of the current state of the same jacket in Feb 2025, after the multi-step process I went through to break this in (...apologies, I know I still owe pix of this to the community...).
I was able to tighten the waist slightly, but am now considering having an experienced leatherworker open it up and take an inch or two out of the waist, which will alter it to more of the hero cut. So, the point to all of this is that you have to get a couple of critical fit points right, then be prepared to enter into a long-term relationship with your 613s, during which, it WILL mold & shape to you, especially if you accelerate the process a bit. Again, a topic for a couple of other threads around here.... Enjoy the Journey!

 

[RJD257]

I like the fit on you. This is not the most tapered pattern, so I doubt it could look any better. I have to say, this jacket looks better on you than it ever did on Schotts Website.
I am with @Aloysius : if you wear it closed, engage the belt to adjust the waist.

...ahhh...this was the post/reply I was looking for - lol....

 

[Aloysius]

As someone else pointed out (...can't find their reply right now...) the modern cut of the Schott 613 & 618 has been altered since the 50's and is now "boxier" to put it politely.

Not really, no. The underarm footballs were added in the 80s (themselves a feature of leather jackets going back decades). The back looks a bit more rounded at the bottom of a modern 613/618 but that itself has precedent among Perfectos too.

As the "average" American Body Geometry has changed in the past 70 years (...and not necessarily for the better - lol...), the patterns & jackets have changed to fit the majority of potential customers/clients.

To clarify: the drop on a modern Perfecto is the same as that on 1960s Perfectos. They were never a sharply V-tapered jacket.

The 613SH is the only model currently in production that is closest to the original 1950's Schott pattern (...for more granular details, search for posts by @jeo ...)

No, not really. I said it's very similar to a 60s/70s Perfecto except new, however I was talking about look details–I wouldn't call the addition of the underarm footballs to be some kind of major reworking of the pattern, just a mobility improvement for those who ride in it.

When I decided I wanted a (new) Horsehide Jacket I could mold to MY body, I took a couple of trips to the SchottNYC Manhattan Showroom on Black Friday Weekend 2023, and brought my thickest sherpa-fleece hoodie with me to judge fit.

Now this isn't related to any corrections, but merely confusion. Why did you take your thickest sherpa fleece coat to judge fit of a trim-fitting leather jacket?

 

[RJD257]

Not really, no. The underarm footballs were added in the 80s (themselves a feature of leather jackets going back decades). The back looks a bit more rounded at the bottom of a modern 613/618 but that itself has precedent among Perfectos too.



To clarify: the drop on a modern Perfecto is the same as that on 1960s Perfectos. They were never a sharply V-tapered jacket.



No, not really. I said it's very similar to a 60s/70s Perfecto except new, however I was talking about look details–I wouldn't call the addition of the underarm footballs to be some kind of major reworking of the pattern, just a mobility improvement for those who ride in it.



Now this isn't related to any corrections, but merely confusion. Why did you take your thickest sherpa fleece coat to judge fit of a trim-fitting leather jacket?

Well, just like Occam's Razor, the simplest answer is usually the correct one - because there are winter days here in the Northeast, where I may need to wear it under the jacket !

PS: I appreciate the added embellishments & clarity to my earlier talking points !

 

[Aloysius]

Well, just like Occam's Razor, the simplest answer is usually the correct one - because there are winter days here in the Northeast, where I may need to wear it under the jacket !

PS: I appreciate the added embellishments & clarity to my earlier talking points !

I'm also in the Northeast and I am all about layering; I just don't think it's the best jacket for it. But if you are going to layer, definitely do not have it tapered further as you're considering.

 

[JasonY]

I've got a 613 and can attest to the somewhat boxy torso. Also reside in the NE and sized to allow for layering. I couldn't be happier with my decision to size up. I've worn it nearly every day since January in temps from the 20's to 50's. It is definitely a little loose in a t-shirt, but totally acceptable looks-wise as far as I'm concerned . I think your fit is good RDJ257. It's layering season most of the year here.

I'm also in the Northeast and I am all about layering; I just don't think it's the best jacket for it. But if you are going to layer, definitely do not have it tapered further as you're considering.

 

[RJD257]

I think your fit is good RDJ257.

Thanks @JasonY ! Truly Appreciate the compliment and the contribution !

 

[Aloysius]

I've got a 613 and can attest to the somewhat boxy torso.

The torso is comparable on the -S variant as well.

There wasn't a decrease in taper. It was roughly 4 inches even back in the 50s. That's my only point.

 

[JasonY]

Thanks @JasonY ! Truly Appreciate the compliment and the contribution !

Those of us in the northern latitudes need to stick together and make a sartorial stand. There is a reason you hear so many people talking about how it is too cold for leather throughout the year.

 

[rain113]

I ordered a 613sh in a 42 and the shoulders ended up bring 19 inches! Which is great but now Im curious if I should have gotten a 40 instead.

I'd definitly prefer a 40 but my shoulders are too broad for the 17.8 ish measurement on the specsheet. It's risky as I don't live in the US to purchase and hope for a broader shoulder version.

On that note if anyone has an 613sh in a 40 with shoulders around 18.5 inches and is looking for a 42 with broader shoulders. I open to buying or trading!

 

[Tom71]

I ordered a 613sh in a 42 and the shoulders ended up bring 19 inches! Which is great but now Im curious if I should have gotten a 40 instead.

I'd definitly prefer a 40 but my shoulders are too broad for the 17.8 ish measurement on the specsheet. It's risky as I don't live in the US to purchase and hope for a broader shoulder version.

On that note if anyone has an 613sh in a 40 with shoulders around 18.5 inches and is looking for a 42 with broader shoulders. I open to buying or trading!

I think you did well. My shoulders are not at all broad, but I wouldn‘t want to side down on mine. It’s not one of Schott‘s forgiving patterns.

BTW: Would like to see a fit-photo.

 

[Aloysius]

I ordered a 613sh in a 42 and the shoulders ended up bring 19 inches! Which is great but now Im curious if I should have gotten a 40 instead.

I'd definitly prefer a 40 but my shoulders are too broad for the 17.8 ish measurement on the specsheet. It's risky as I don't live in the US to purchase and hope for a broader shoulder version.

On that note if anyone has an 613sh in a 40 with shoulders around 18.5 inches and is looking for a 42 with broader shoulders. I open to buying or trading!

The size 40 is like 17.5 in the shoulders. It won't be wearable. The absolute widest shoulder you'll find in that pattern block for a 40 is 18" exactly, which is on the 519 and a couple of limited run models. The jacket will mould to you and 19" shoulders are far from oversized.

 

[rain113]

The thing is I have a 38" inch chest right now but the shoulders of a 42. So the chest is really roomy. Do you think that will mold properly? I know someone here put measurements of their 40 with 18.4 inch shoulders.

Anyways here are some fit pics. The fit of the shoulders is great but the shape in the torso is loose.