The Occult, are you a believer?

[Lefty]

[QUOTE="Skeet" McD]uhhhoh....hidden forces at work again

(psssst: everyone! put on your tinfoil hats: then they can't hear us)

(of course, I can't prove it....)

"Skeet"[/QUOTE]

Don't worry, they're counterfeit.

 

[stephen1965]

this is where it gets interesting...... Divine intervention, miracles, people coming across our paths.
Sometimes like children some give in the hard way and others easily.
The occult cannot give me hope...

I see two sides(at least) to this. I think that most Christian practices that i come across are exoteric. That is, they are for the mass population who need looking after not to kill and rob eachother etc and need solace and guidance for their everyday life choices. Like most, or perhaps every religion, there is or has been an esoteric circle which deals with initiates into, let's say the mysteries of that religion/practice. Just as Sufism is the esoteric circle to Islam. Some people might move from the exoteric circle to the esoteric circle but most of us are blissfully unaware of it (I'm not aiming that at anyone). When the exoteric hears of the esoteric it is usually through folktales/fairytales/myth etc and is often thought of as dangerous or immoral. I have the feeling, though I could be wrong that most of the Christian churches have little or no connection to any idea of the esoteric. Furthermore, I think that the concept of Faith belongs to an esoteric school which no longer exists. The exoteric version of it goes on. As I say I could be wrong.

 

[tuppence]

Golden Gordon

To keep things on topic, I thought I'd chuck in a mention of The Curse of the Claw episode, which is nearer the occult theme of this thread.

I watched it when I was really young and could only remember the soccer and p.o.w episodes. But I will not be leaving this seat until I have watched them all.
British Comedy outshines everything.

 

["Skeet" McD]

Like most, or perhaps every religion, there is or has been an esoteric circle which deals with initiates into, let's say the mysteries of that religion/practice....I have the feeling, though I could be wrong that most of the Christian churches have little or no connection to any idea of the esoteric.

Dear Stephen1965,
Well...we've been warned in the nicest way possible by the hidden forces that rule our [cyber]lives...so I'll just state right up front that my comment here is purely historical--I'm not getting (and have no intention of going) into a discussion of the relative value of gnosticism vs. orthodox Christianity.

Nonetheless, the first couple of centuries after Christ saw an amazing explosion of varieties of belief that were somehow related to the historical Christ and His teaching; one of the strongest branches of this was what is known as Gnosticism, from "gnosis" (Gk: knowledge). While the varieties of gnostic sects go on and on, one thing they have in common was a belief in a hidden, higher, teaching available only to initiates. It is clear that this was a very attractive concept in the ancient world. We have some of the scriptures of these groups--the Nag Hammadi Library is the main source--and all I can say is: if you think the Book of Revelation is mind-bending....you ain't seen NOTHIN' yet. Grab a peek at some of this stuff!

At any rate, the Church fathers quite decidedly wrote this concept of a hidden wisdom available to some but not to all out of the orthodox canon...and there it has remained. There certainly is a current revival of interest in these belief systems...and I wouldn't doubt in the least that there are practicing gnostics out there once again...but (to the best of my knowledge) you are correct: traditional Christianity has stayed clear of this concept.

I may, of course, be wrong: but that's my understanding of the matter. I will be surprised if any of this is news to you, as you seem quite well posted on such matters.

"Skeet"

 

[tuppence]

maybe that is the problem.lol
is that what tuppence means?

no wonder the lady in the pool in Europe looked at me wide eyed when I spoke of religion. I think it may not be so loosely discussed there. lol :eusa_clap

you people are a hoot...

Yes you are some-what correct. If you claimed that you have the one true and right religion and every-body else was on the losing team. You would be seen as an extremist fruit-cake over here. When we talk about religion if ever we really just state what religion we are, and not the religion everybody else should be.

I believe in the last Australian census there were a goodly percentage of people who claimed their religion as Star Trekian,
but I'd have to research this.

 

[stephen1965]

[QUOTE="Skeet" McD]Dear Stephen1965,
Well...we've been warned in the nicest way possible by the hidden forces that rule our [cyber]lives...[/QUOTE]
Thank you "Skeet" McDee, you give me the impression of balance and understanding. I guess it's easy (for me) to forget myself and be carried away with being 'argumentative'.

 

["Skeet" McD]

Thank you "Skeet" McDee, you give me the impression of balance and understanding. I guess it's easy (for me) to forget myself and be carried away with being 'argumentative'.

Dear Stephen, Thank you for the kind words, much appreciated. My impression of you is just the same, for what it's worth...my remark was not directed at you by any means (I have found your posts both interesting and notable for their lack of argumentation)...but we are certainly in waters that are by their nature....dangerous....(as all highly personal, deeply-held beliefs are)....and wanted to make sure I wasn't setting the stage for a gnostics vs. orthodox fistfight....we had enough of THOSE in the 3rd and 4th centuries, thank you very much

Respectfully,
"Skeet"

PS: re your laudable effort to provide some vintage clothing aspect to all this...yes, G.I. was a sharp dresser...although I wonder whether those shoes were the right choice....

 

[Fedord Spaniard]

It isn't something good.

Alright then, Ill say no more. You might have met my attorneys....

Mr.Murdock,

Mr.Finch,

and, Mr.Gambini lol

 

[Viola]

Don't make me call my cousin Vinnie! lol

 

[Fedord Spaniard]

Don't make me call my cousin Vinnie! lol

lol lol

 

[BellyTank]

Scotrace ???

Now that could be construed as Spooky...


B
T

 

[Baron Kurtz]

That is, in fact, one of the better FLounge lookee likee efforts.

bk

 

[Marc Chevalier]

British Comedy outshines everything.

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap



.

 

[H.Johnson]

A nice, thoughtful posting, if I may say. I was saying much the same things myself recently in a discussion (with a 'man of the cloth') of Freemasonry.

I see two sides(at least) to this. I think that most Christian practices that i come across are exoteric. That is, they are for the mass population who need looking after not to kill and rob eachother etc and need solace and guidance for their everyday life choices. Like most, or perhaps every religion, there is or has been an esoteric circle which deals with initiates into, let's say the mysteries of that religion/practice. Just as Sufism is the esoteric circle to Islam. Some people might move from the exoteric circle to the esoteric circle but most of us are blissfully unaware of it (I'm not aiming that at anyone). When the exoteric hears of the esoteric it is usually through folktales/fairytales/myth etc and is often thought of as dangerous or immoral. I have the feeling, though I could be wrong that most of the Christian churches have little or no connection to any idea of the esoteric. Furthermore, I think that the concept of Faith belongs to an esoteric school which no longer exists. The exoteric version of it goes on. As I say I could be wrong.

 

[Story]

Like most, or perhaps every religion, there is or has been an esoteric circle which deals with initiates into, let's say the mysteries of that religion/practice.

An interesting word you use, as in the Esoteric Order of Dagon? www.esotericorderofdagon.com

/ Period appropriate reference to Lovecraft made, in a thread that sorely needed it.

 

[stephen1965]

An interesting word you use, as in the Esoteric Order of Dagon? www.esotericorderofdagon.com

/ Period appropriate reference to Lovecraft made, in a thread that sorely needed it.

I know next to nothing about Lovecraft so I'll enjoy the link...
I had in mind P.D Ouspensky 1878-1947: "Hidden knowledge is an idea which does not fit into any other idea. If the existence of hidden knowledge is admitted, it is admitted as belonging to certain people, but to people whom we do not know, to an inner circle of humanity. According to this idea, humanity is regarded as two concentric circles....All the history of humanity that we know is the history of the outer circle.
The inner or the esoteric circle, is as it were, a life within a life, a mystery, a secret in the life of humanity....The esoteric circle is...humanity within humanity, and is the brain , or rather the immortal soul, of humanity, where all the achievements, of all cultures and all civilizations are preserved' - Ouspensky, A New Model of the Universe.

Ouspensky was a student of GI Gurdjieff.

 

["Skeet" McD]

I know next to nothing about Lovecraft so I'll enjoy the link...

I'm sure you will...and if you are unfamiliar with Lovecraft, you will probably enjoy his works as well. He was an exceptionally strange man; the location of many of his works is....well, right here where I'm writing this, on the banks of the Merrimack River (his "Miskatonic"); Haverhill--our little vest-pocket city, not yours!--is mentioned in several of his works. Lovecraft wrote for pulp magazines...yet managed to rise above the merely commercial aspects of that market in the same way that, say Stephen Foster managed to rise above the commercial aspects of the Parlor Song, keeping the format but creating real art. The continual theme of his work is what happens when a human gets a peek at what lies behind the "normative" view of the world...you will certainly enjoy it.

To continue with the all-too-infrequent Golden Age aspect of this all-too-interesting discussion....as you will see by Story's link, and THIS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu

HPL has a devoted and fairly insane group of devotees. A coven of them active in the penumbra of the film industry here have created quite an amazing modern silent film....with period-correct score, no less--of one of HPLs best stories THE CALL OF CTHULHU. Take a peek at the trailer!

http://www.cthulhulives.org/cocmovie/trailer.html

Although an amateur production, and clearly not a very high-budget one, what they have achieved is...mindboggling. Someone spent A LOT of time looking at German Expressionist cinema! They are currently at work on a 1930s style sound picture.

Enjoy! Ph'nglui mglw'nafh C'thulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

"Skeet"

 

[Undertow]

Being a person that actively, and quite tenaciously, calls himself an Agnostic, the Occult is of as much interest as any other branch or system of belief. In particular, the writings of Crowley and Spare come to mind as being quite intriguing. I have a small assortment of books dealing with the occult, far less than I have in reference to major religions, however I believe it’s incredibly difficult to effectively and accurately track occult practice due to its “secret” nature as well as it’s vague and loose application.

Overall, I enjoy reading about the occult but I can't say it's an easy subject to research and understand with as much certainty as, say, Islam or Judaism.

 

["Skeet" McD]

Overall, I enjoy reading about the occult but I can't say it's an easy subject to research and understand with as much certainty as, say, Islam or Judaism.

Boy, you can say THAT again...but, really: how could it be otherwise? Major religions--for lack of a better descriptor--(e.g., Christianity; Islam; Judaism; Buddhism) each have numerous sub-divisions, even if they share core beliefs. But..."The Occult" is truly a catch-all terminology...and even things that would generally be felt to fall under that category share....well, perhaps not that much at all.

But: fascinating! fascinating!

"Skeet"

 

[Creeping Past]

The most interesting book I've read recently on this subject is Beyond the Occult, by Colin Wilson.

Taking a step back from the practice and the ritual -- the ideology of The Occult -- Wilson describes the enlightenment process as one of gaining insight through examining experience.