The Occult, are you a believer?

[Foofoogal]

I believe it exist and people mess with things they should not as it is sin.
I also believe it is the counterfeit of the real thing. It is also used to scam people that are superstitious. Jesus is the Prince of Life and the occult will get you death.
Why have bologna when you can have steak?

 

["Skeet" McD]

Thank you, thank you...

Dear Maj. Danger,
It takes a great deal of moral courage to say what you know to be true. I can't say whether what you describe IS true...but you clearly believe it--and, for what it's worth: so do I.

From my own perspective (and worth nothing more than that) you have also explained it perfectly. I agree with you 100% on the explanation, and the intuition that...unless you're called: don't go. Others will have other opinions, to which they are just entitled and which I hope will be just as satisfactory to them.

I'll tell the tale of my best American Civil War friend, a man 10 years older than myself...he would have been around 50 when this occurred.

This man has built his entire life around the life of his great-great-grandfather, who served in an Illinois regiment. There is not a detail of his ancestor's life which he does not know; his entire world view is centered on the experience of this German-American immigrant. He can literally go down the ranks of his ancestor's company in any given month...and tell you the heights of each man, in order. That sort of detail. He is, however, a fully-functioning, non-pathological denizen of the present. He has done Civil War reenacting since the centennial...never once did he have any "odd" experiences...nor seek them.

At an event in Vermont, he was dressed as a hospital steward, and riding in a reproduction of a CW ambulance. His ancestor had been a hospital steward; the ambulance reproduction was new (built not by my friend, but by another member of the group who was a hobby carriage maker). This was the first time my friend had ever done a steward's impression.

As "luck" would have it, the ambulance overturned; my friend was thrown to the ground and broke his ankle. An EMT in the group stabilized him...but, out in the boonies, it would be some time before a modern ambulance could take him back to Boston. He was placed--appropriately enough!--in the hospital tent.

Within the first hour, my friend noticed something odd about his perceptions...something definitely uncanny. A soldier came into the tent and sat by the side of his bed. My friend could not see his face...it was sort of blurry..although everything else was clear. The soldier turned away, but remained sitting by his side for several hours. Neither my friend nor the soldier spoke. Finally the presence turned around, my friend had a strong feeling of love and peace, and KNEW it was his great-great-grandfather even though the face was still indistinct....he had come to comfort his descendant when he needed it, just as he had done during the war. The presence then turned, pulled the tent flap aside and left. The EMTs arrived a moment later.

I have known the individual concerned for 25 years and can implicitly vouch for his sobriety, honesty, and non-romantic view of life. He has no doubt of the truth of what he experienced....and neither do I.

"Skeet"

 

[Lefty]

I believe it exist and people mess with things they should not as it is sin.
I also believe it is the counterfeit of the real thing. It is also used to scam people that are superstitious. Jesus is the Prince of Life and the occult will get you death.
Why have bologna when you can have steak?

I'll stick to being a happy vegetarian and not worrying about mad cow disease.

 

[Lotta Little]

Interesting subject! As a Christian, I do not practice the occult by use of Ouija boards, etc, but I do believe in it. I think there exist, all around us, other dimensions (in a quantum physics sense) as well as other beings (angels, demons, etc) that we can't always see or interact with. I believe that if God allowed us to perceive much more of his creation than what we can experience with our five limited senses, our little minds would just be blown.

However, some people's minds, souls, and senses have different sensibilities and are developing at different rates, which changes the game a little. I think this is why some people see their first ghost in mid-life, or suddenly develop psychic abilities after an accident, etc. I also think many people are just too bogged down with the distractions of daily life to really "tap in," which is why people often report that they were "zoned out" or "just about to fall asleep" when they had an occult experience. It's all part of God's master plan, and none of us will get the bigger picture until we die. If even then.

 

[Foofoogal]

I'll stick to being a happy vegetarian and not worrying about mad cow disease.

lol

you would be surprised and amazed if I told you my stories and experiences along these lines but I will not. lol
Spirituality is a very personal thing and so are experiences.

They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony. Rev.12:11.

the 2 just do not compare at all. I have seen miracles by the Lord that stun me speechless. The occult is there to stop you from seeing the real. To distract you from your true call in life.
I do think also heredity plays a huge role in this though.

 

[stephen1965]

...This I can attest is also a real phenomenon...

Thanks Maj.Nick,(I would have thanked you earlier but for London time zone being different etc). There does seem to be a lot of evidence for what has been called an 'astral body' which is able to experience time/space differently from the physical. It's been linked to 'higher emotional centre' (fourth-way terminology for 'super-awarenss'/true consciousness/awakening). IMO it can occur(astral awareness) at times of extreme physical or mental agitation/stress/exertion etc. I do not think that this rebuke you mention is because you were attempting anything 'sinful' as such but perhaps it's as well to examine what our aims are in these things.
To me, some occult practices are a complete sham, others might seem to be in the way of a 'short cut' to being and understanding what in general people might achieve in time. Therefore, it seems 'sinful' or against the 'will of God'. I do not believe this, infact I think that there are esoteric schools which are the very essence of civilization. IMO, the idea of Jesus is an esoteric/occult idea in this sense.

 

[WinoJunko]

A very interesting and thought provoking thread! I myself believe that there is surely more to this world then meets the eye. What it is, I don't really have a clue. I have not seen enough or experianced enough to make a proper opinion on the matter. But, as someone who believes in christianity, I believe that there are angles, demons and possibly other spirits and that there are some people who are more sensitive to their presence then the rest of us. A point that was made earlier that I happen to agree with, is that some of us are to busy with whats going on in our day to day lives to really take in the spiritual or other worldly things that are going on around us. Another point I'd like to speak on is that we aren't supposed to meddle in these areas. I agree with that! But, it leads to the question...this is all part of God's plan right? If we weren't meant to meddle in it, why are we able to meddle in it? And why are some people more sensitive to it then others? Very thought provoking, at least to me =P But, its all part of God's plan and I suppose we'll find out about it when the time comes.

 

[tuppence]

I lived with a poltergeist for a couple of months when I was younger. It was SCARY.Other than that I am fairly normal.

 

[DutchIndo]

It's called Necromancy as a Christian I know it's very real. I avoid it at all costs but to be truthful I'm always ready for a Ghost story.

 

[get_atomized]

Even as a devout athiest (if I were a Christian I guess my Jesus would be Carl Sagan!) I am still into the paranormal. I think it is merely an aspect of the universe science has yet to grasp. I don't think it's dangerous or terribly important, because I don't believe in intervention of any kind by some kind of higher/unseen power in human lives.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

A very interesting and thought provoking thread! I myself believe that there is surely more to this world then meets the eye. What it is, I don't really have a clue. I have not seen enough or experianced enough to make a proper opinion on the matter. But, as someone who believes in christianity, I believe that there are angles, demons and possibly other spirits and that there are some people who are more sensitive to their presence then the rest of us. A point that was made earlier that I happen to agree with, is that some of us are to busy with whats going on in our day to day lives to really take in the spiritual or other worldly things that are going on around us. Another point I'd like to speak on is that we aren't supposed to meddle in these areas. I agree with that! But, it leads to the question...this is all part of God's plan right? If we weren't meant to meddle in it, why are we able to meddle in it? And why are some people more sensitive to it then others? Very thought provoking, at least to me =P But, its all part of God's plan and I suppose we'll find out about it when the time comes.

Maybe it's not so much a question of "meddling" in general then as it is a question of the type of meddling in which we engage. The old testament is full of warnings about destructive spiritual practices, but what many people fail to see is that it also contains a great deal of information about what is proper and allowable.
The ancient Israelites had a very structured and very richly detailed set of precepts as to how to approach the One True God. The ark of the covenant, the priesthood, the temple building itself as the only place of true worship. Also it alludes to objects known as the Urim, and the Thummim which were the only objects sanctified for divination.
We mortals sometimes tend to see these rules and laws as a lot of "don'ts", as restrictions to be challenged I think. But they were ordained by God as a means of protecting humanity from all the evil spiritual influences that are present in the universe. Like any good parent, He has always had our best interests at heart.

 

[Bourbon Guy]

Multiple "well saids" to Maj D. It is encouraging to read the number of responders who believe.

I once experienced the abject hopelessness and despair that accompanies a crisis of faith. From that emptiness I cried out in prayer to God for an answer, a sign, something to let me know that there is something after this life; something more than this physical existence. Some meaning. Are you there? Looked. Listened. Nothing.

Went about my business, until about a half hour later something caught my attention. Something I hadn't heard, althouh it was there. I literally wasn't listening. Then came the answer, over and over and over and over and over and over and over until I finally had to say out loud "Stop! I hear you. I get it." I've not doubted since.

I am not far enough along in my journey to be comfortable sharing details. However, from my limited experience with the light, I advise against messing with the dark side. I expect you would not like what you find.

 

[Mojito]

I used to very strongly believe in the supernatural. As I've grown older, I believed less, until the point now when I'm extremely skeptical (but still open to persuasion by empirical evidence). I've had some very strange experiences myself, including one particularly eerie one that still puzzles me greatly as I've found other people who have experienced it as well. However, I'd exhaust all other possibilities before I turned to the supernatural as an explanation. The mind is a monkey and it does odd things - there have been very interesting experiments in recent years in triggering the sense of a numinous "other" in the brain, for example.

 

[Fedord Spaniard]

Thank You to all the people that have posted so far. Also thank you to the people that have shared thier stories in this thread.

In my opinion i think God doesnt want people to flirt with the Occult because its human nature to eventually want to know more (remember the garden?). So before you know it the "harmless" flirtation becomes an obssesion for most. Its for a reason that i think that God doesnt want people messing with the Occult, or acting on Lust (other thatn with your Husband/Wife) and other things that hes against. Did you know that through sexual practices and done as a ritual one could unlock doors in the conscienceness of the one doing the act? Its called Sex Magic.... It was used alot by Crowley... Ive read a few things about this guy that i consider really OUT THERE...like how he used to make women have sexual intercourse with goats and then upon orgasm he would slash the throat of the goat and take the blood. If these things really happed, i dont know, cause i wasnt there...but its something i read about this man. For many the goat is a symbol of black magic...its a goat's head thats on the Star of Baphomet or Sigil of Baphomet and reads Leviathan in the hebrew letters around the seal. Is there anyone here that has read or actually tried any Occultic practices?

 

[WinoJunko]

Maybe it's not so much a question of "meddling" in general then as it is a question of the type of meddling in which we engage. The old testament is full of warnings about destructive spiritual practices, but what many people fail to see is that it also contains a great deal of information about what is proper and allowable.
The ancient Israelites had a very structured and very richly detailed set of precepts as to how to approach the One True God. The ark of the covenant, the priesthood, the temple building itself as the only place of true worship. Also it alludes to objects known as the Urim, and the Thummim which were the only objects sanctified for divination.
We mortals sometimes tend to see these rules and laws as a lot of "don'ts", as restrictions to be challenged I think. But they were ordained by God as a means of protecting humanity from all the evil spiritual influences that are present in the universe. Like any good parent, He has always had our best interests at heart.

You could very well be right! It might have to do with the type of meddling in which we engage. Alot of people's beliefs on this matter come from their own experiances and their own points of view. I very much respect your opinion and beliefs on the matter! I however, believe that yes, there is more to this world then meets the eye. But, I don't believe in myself trying to find out...thats not to say I have a problem with other people who do. Its just, incase there is something bad (which there surely must be) I don't want to be the guy who finds out the hard way. I hope I didn't offend, its just my opinion and everyone else is entitled to their own as well.

 

[Spitfire]

I am not a believer - on the other hand, if someting "occult" happened in front of my eyes, I would not be surprised.
I have heard enough perfectly sane people tell of their experiences, not to.

 

[HungaryTom]

Dear Fedora Spaniard,

This thread is controversial and inspires people for discussion.
Sacrifices of humans (Abraham to offer his son Isaac, the original purpose of gladiator fights,) and of animals to feed the worshipped entities with the streaming life energies of the sacrificed being was a reality.

Hebrews saw all these practices in the neighboring and now by-gone cultures (descriptions of Canaanite cults; Cults of Sodom and Gomorrah, sexual rituals with animals i.e. the literal bestiality, and sodomy. Incest –the Pharaoh have been doing this all the time to preserve the divine lineage- has been also described. See the daughters of Lot. Old Testament reports in several places about throwing children in the burning altars of Moloch, the existence of Topeths on mountain tops i.e. altars for human sacrifice, Baal worship (Beelzebub vs. Lord of the Flies) and Idolatry – adoration of the golden calf in Egypt.

The scapegoat was cast out of the city to the desert and a sacrifice for Asasel the desert demon, while the lamb was always meant to be a sacrifice for God – like Abel).

Conquistadores saw the practice of human sacrifice being still alive and practiced when they met Aztecs and Mayans in the New World.

Crowley wanted to resurrect these practices and actually achieved that he got posessed and could live on drugs.

It doesn’t matter whether others can see what is reality to the practicioner – for you it count only what you perceive.

The name occult means literally hidden. People practicing that thing want to protect their knowledge and they want to keep their incognito and this is why you will never find any answers on a vintage style forum where people confess that they are true devouts of Satan or they are practicing pederasty, bestiality, necrophilia, whatever to broaden their consciousness.

Stick to the Bible - it is a good basis in spirituality for people of the Western (Judeo-Christian) civilization.

Tom

 

[MrNewportCustom]

People can make themselves believe anything, especially if that belief will help them to understand, even in some small way, the unfathomable and unexplainable.

Personally, I believe that being consistently kind, caring and generous to women (in general) will eventually lead one to want to consistently treat me to the same courtesies.

Now go back to my first statement. lol


Lee
__________________

"No man ever really knows what goes on between the earrings." - Kinky Friedman

 

[pigeon toe]

I have a hard time answering this because although I identify as primarily agnostic with atheist leanings, I have always been intrigued by Paganism. As a young teenager I read a lot of about Wicca and various Pagan spiritualities and really liked their message of self-empowerment and the "magic" and beauty that is in the natural world.

I was raised Catholic, but even as a young child I had a hard time identifying or truly believing in the religion. At the same time, I am thankful for having a semi-religious upbringing because I can understand why religion is important to many, even though I don't feel that way myself. Plus, I like being "culturally Catholic"! There are lots of things about Catholicism, and many other of the big religions, that could be considered "occult" (saints, Communion, etc.), but since they are mainstream they are not viewed as such.

I still like the idea of focusing your energy and thoughts to accomplish a goal. At the same time, I'm a self-proclaimed skeptic and love the logic and reason behind science, which I think is why I'm so non-religious. I do think there is something to be said for positive thinking and manifesting those thoughts into action (be it prayer, ritual, or spells), which is why I still read up on Paganism sometimes when I'm bored and wanna learn something new! The effects of positive-thinking are best explained by psychology, I feel, instead of some higher being granting wishes.

My dad is very supersitious, but not religious. He has many voodoo dolls, charm vials, power beads, statues of various religious figures, etc. in his home office on a large wooden Hindu shrine! I love this about him! It's quirky and lots of people probably think he's a little nutty for it, but I like the idea that he's just covering all his bases, just in case the "real God" is the one some tribe in the Amazon worships.

I think there is so much about the world and our universe that we will never be able to understand. Thinking that these things have happened naturally through scientific (as opposed to divine) means, is the most powerful and awe-inspiring thing ever. To me, at least. If I had to say I believed firmly in something, it would have to be science.

 

[John Boyer]

Ultimately, I suspect we will find what we seriously engage and will benefit from the journey. And, when in doubt, reflect and listen......

I am reading Miracles by C.S. Lewis that I think has something to offer to the Naturalism vs. Supernaturalism debate but it is difficult to summarize.

John