Show us your suits

[reetpleat]

I guess it's more expensive to make a jacket with a proper silhouette? Perhaps retailers are tricking customers into thinking they're going to get the look, and then not providing it, knowing that many customers will have a very delusional idea of how something looks on them, remembering more the mannequin than themselves when deciding whether to buy or not.

I have toyed with the idea of pursuing a law suit on grounds of false advertising when a store pins their jackets excessively. But i can't afford it and disagree with such frivolous suits.

Re: well fitted jackets. When in the States i was constantly being told not to wear jackets which highlighted my body shape (lean, slightly athletic) when going for job interviews etc. I should somehow look like a shapeless pile of fabric, just because? Perhaps the lack of modern off-the-peg manufacturers producing jackets with such silhouettes is a reflection of this mindset?

bk

I think the main problem is that while we all think that the trim waist fit looks good, few men can fit it anymore. So they continue to pin, but continue to sell things that are big around the waist.

It is not new though. As I have mentioned before, the old esquire illustrations feature an impossible trim look because they are illustrations. No man will ever look quite like them.

women complain about impossible images and standards, but men also will never be equal to the impossibly slim models and illustrations. Fortunately, we don't seem to mind and neither do women, so I guess we are okay. I think it is solely the gay men who have to dea lwith unrealistic expectations.

 

[reetpleat]

I am going to go out on a limb and touch a subject that some may find controversial. It might even be a good subject for another thread.

I think the move away from highlighting, or towards hiding, the male silhouette, at least in mainstream America, may be related to post-WWII homophobia in America. I have spent a lot of time reading about American social customs, and traveling in and working with people from other cultures. One example: I spent a couple of years on Italian cruise ships in the early 70's, and I was always impressed by the officers' summer uniforms that were so tight that nothing would fit in their pockets.

My unscientific conclusion is that many American aversions are to things that somehow American men (and maybe some women) associate as effeminate, less than manly, gay or whatever. There are many examples of these: feelings about types of clothing (i.e., bathing suits), sterotypes about men interested in cultural and artistic things, labeling movies as "chic flics", peer pressure into various male bonding rituals, the aversion to anything too suave. And yet, Americans are a schizo group. Film and TV characters embodynig many of the older male qualities, including well-fitted suits revealing a slim physique, such as Daniel Craig as Bond and the star of "Burn Notice" are popular. In any case, I think it is an interesting idea to consider and I welcome others' thoughts.

Interesting. Might I throw out not so much gay or homophobia, but a related issue, male and female. In the seventies, there was a hyper masculine ideal, but it was also related to the masculine exageration in the gay community. Think moustaches and tight fitting clothing.

In the late 1800s and the 20s and the sixties, there was a trend towards slim effeminite style while the owman in the sixties and twenties leaned towards less feminine slim androgenous style. Same in the eighties to a degree. Recently, while much of America is being fairly slovenly masculine, we have atrend towards slim, style conscious looks, often called metrosexual. I think you are moving in the right direction, but only touching the tip of the iceberg. Interesting.

 

[Rittmeister]

Thanks everyone for the comments. It seems there probably several layers of dymanics at work over the decades. As for the 70s, we should remember the Saturday Night Fever look. This like so many other looks (Mafia, gangster, Indiana Jones, etc.) gets parodied to death in the media. Then everyone who only gets their information from the sound-bite media ends up with sterotypical images in the minds and knee-jerk reactions whenever they see anything that reminds them of something. Like everything else in life always has been, the information age has its pluses and minuses.

 

[Jerekson]

I am going to go out on a limb and touch a subject that some may find controversial. It might even be a good subject for another thread.

I think the move away from highlighting, or towards hiding, the male silhouette, at least in mainstream America, may be related to post-WWII homophobia in America. I have spent a lot of time reading about American social customs, and traveling in and working with people from other cultures. One example: I spent a couple of years on Italian cruise ships in the early 70's, and I was always impressed by the officers' summer uniforms that were so tight that nothing would fit in their pockets.

My unscientific conclusion is that many American aversions are to things that somehow American men (and maybe some women) associate as effeminate, less than manly, gay or whatever. There are many examples of these: feelings about types of clothing (i.e., bathing suits), sterotypes about men interested in cultural and artistic things, labeling movies as "chic flics", peer pressure into various male bonding rituals, the aversion to anything too suave. And yet, Americans are a schizo group. Film and TV characters embodynig many of the older male qualities, including well-fitted suits revealing a slim physique, such as Daniel Craig as Bond and the star of "Burn Notice" are popular. In any case, I think it is an interesting idea to consider and I welcome others' thoughts.

This is a valid point, but by no means should we target this attitude towards clothing alone. Almost every detail imaginable plays it's part in this theory; while clothing is no doubt a large proportion of it, in the long run it will not matter because the said person would just look for something else to target.

As an example:

I have been called gay before because I have a short haircut with a part.

 

[BellyTank]

As an example:

I have been called gay before because I have a short haircut with a part.

Were YOU referred to as GAY, or was it a case of "... GAY haircut, Dude!"


B
T

 

[BellyTank]

To observe a generalisation, "America" is "known" to have a Macho hang-up
(sorry)BUT the sloppy fitting suit is a global phenomenon. I believe it is more to do with clothing, as an industry and trends in the mass-market industry, more than a social phenomenon.

Great Britain has, in recent years, had a working class male youth(yobs, football culture and Chavs) culture of wearing "designer" (genuine, or knock-off)clothing and "looking good"(for a night on the Town)- although it is somewhat of a uniform, a default mode of dress(if one is not a Weirdo, Goth, Emo, Punk, etc)lacking in any individuality or real taste in clothing and doesn't look good to me, it does seem, however, to be a ham-fisted attempt to embrace a culture of somewhat traditional dressing- (may be just be petty, designer/brand desire)although it is a "Jones-ing" thing(keeping up with). It is definitely not looked at as "GAY" and is a part of a masculine youth culture.

Particularly in London, dressing as an "individual", whatever that may entail,
is totally accepted and nobody gives you a second look- so I think in some ways- these Boys are expressing their "normality".. and I guess, probably their DEFINITELY-NOT-GAY-ness.

I may have to change my thoughts here, as I think about it...


B
T

 

[Baron Kurtz]

BT makes a good point. When the yoof use the word gay, i don't think it means they believe you to be homosexual. The word has taken on yet another meaning in modern parlance. I believe it has replaced "lame", just as it changed meaning from "happy" or "pleasant" to "homosexual" sometime after WWII.

I will not deny that the change from "homosexual" meaning to "lame" is sad, as it indicates that as a culture we associate those two words. Just as gay came to mean homosexual through its association with a stereotyped gay man - famboyant, happy, "screaming", happily out and happy with himself - therefore "gay".

Whew. Etymology is exhausting.

bk

 

[BellyTank]

Whew. Etymology is exhausting.

bk

GAY!


B
T

 

[Bird's One View]

"Gay" was used to mean "lame" by the mid eighties if not before.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Just passed this one on to a good home. The one time i find a grey flannel and the bugger's too big/long. Drats! The search goes on.

Middle-Late 1940s, probably. Truly a beautiful suit. Can be buttoned regular or "Kent" but has been pressed at some point to button "Kent".

bk

 

[Mr. Rover]

Really stunning! It's really a shame that it doesn't fit...I've been looking for a gray flannel DB as well- on the hunt for at least 2 years now. They really are that rare.
Perfection.

 

[benstephens]

I will add myself to the list of people looking for grey flannel suit, I would love one with a pin stripe in light grey!

Baron, was that one American or British?

Ben

 

[Senator Jack]

Long search for me too. Finally broke down and had this one constructed.

Regards,

Jack

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Hi Ben,

It was American.

I will add myself to the list of people looking for grey flannel suit, I would love one with a pin stripe in light grey!

Baron, was that one American or British?

Ben

Jack, that's an interesting button configuration. Is that a model you'll be offering?

bk

 

[Senator Jack]

Yeah, BK, that was the first I designed about two years ago, taking a bit from here an there to put it together. I put 1" buttons on it because I think 5/8" on a four-button look ridiculously small and makes the suit look ridiculously 80s. It's definitely one of my favorite suits so I wear it a lot in the winter, and though the flannel is super 120s, it has held up well. No thinning to be found as of yet.

Regards,

Jack

 

[Jerekson]

Were YOU referred to as GAY, or was it a case of "... GAY haircut, Dude!"


B
T

This happened back in my high school experience.

One of my fellow students began spreading rumors around my grade that I was a homosexual. When people would ask him why, his answer was "because he likes Star Wars and has that haircut".

And it's funny too because I had only mentioned once that I enjoyed watching the Star Wars movies [huh]

And he had hair down to his butt, obviously...

 

[thunderw21]

Just passed this one on to a good home.

And here it is now. It's almost a perfect fit.

'Kent' style

"Let's go, tough guy."

Thanks Baron!
Hopefully he'll soon show pics of his new suit.

Edit: sorry for the dark pics

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Great! I hope you can get some length out of the arms. I really should have lengthened them before i sent it to you, but i didn't think to :eusa_doh: I remember ther should be enough to get those arms down to a good length.

bk

 

[thunderw21]

No problem, Baron. I have another jacket that needs its arms taken out so I'll do them both at the same time. There appears to be enough to take out.

I just can't wait to see yours!

 

[thunderw21]

Bought this 2-piece tweed suit yesterday. It has a '39 union tag.
It fits very well, though I had to take down the cuffs on the trousers and the arms need to be taken down a tad as well. Otherwise it's a perfect fit.
A real beauty. 40R, 32x32 trousers with the cuffs let down.

It's hard to see any detail in this picture because of the tweed.

The tweed or, as my roomate calls it, "barf fabric".