Rugged West - custom Rugged Rider 3.0 (Buco J-24 inspired) - Initial impressions / review

[TartuWolf]

Sorry to hear you look forward to wearing the RW the least but I can certainly understand where you’re coming from. Sometimes a jacket just doesn’t inspire and it’s hard to wear when that happens. Perhaps you’ll feel differently at some point.

I’m surprised you didn’t like the leather on the DH. It definitely has that stiff as a board like horsehide thing going out of the box, but it’s also beautiful out of the box. Mine is already breaking in nicely despite the So Cal summer putting a damper on wearing it. I can’t wait to wear it more when it cools off here.

Cheer, Jon

Have you shared some fit pics of your DH yet? Post a link if you have, I'd love to see it.
I loved the leather on the brown DH car coat that I saw and touched in the same store.

 

[JonS1967]

Have you shared some fit pics of your DH yet? Post a link if you have, I'd love to see it.
I loved the leather on the brown DH car coat that I saw and touched in the same store.

I posted some in the double helix thread. Apologies for my amateurish photos. See post #254 on page 13 and there are some on the following pages as well.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/double-helix-works.106511/page-13

Edit: I just noticed that you liked several of the posts I just linked so I think you’ve seen the fit pictures. I’ll take some more in the near future.

 

[TartuWolf]

Since the main Rugged West thread was locked for some reason (without ANY explanation from the mods) I'll post this info here.
How does the (premium) black teacore steerhide age?
Not so well in my opinion, but you can decide yourself.
Here are two close-ups - very lightly worn RW black teacore steerhide and heavily worn black CXL (my gold standard for teacore leather), same location:

 

[twistdh]

Seems like super thin upper black layer, already completely come off instead of fading with time.

I’m not a huge fan of teacore in general, but cxl looks very nice…instead that RW teacore is not so good…

 

[ABCD]

Here are two close-ups - very lightly worn RW black teacore steerhide and heavily worn black CXL (my gold standard for teacore leather)

You should compare apples to apples. CXL has an aniline finish vs the RW leather that has a pigment finish. They are different by design.

Having said that, RW's topcoat looks to wear off quite fast which is not a great look imo. That jacket will look shabby quite fast.

 

[TartuWolf]

You should compare apples to apples. CXL has an aniline finish vs the RW leather that has a pigment finish. They are different by design.

Having said that, RW's topcoat looks to wear off quite fast which is not a great look imo. That jacket will look shabby quite fast.

You are correct that they are different finishes, but shouldn't it be the oposite by design? Meaning that I'd expect aniline to wear faster and more dramatically than a pigment finish. Obviously depends on how the pigment was applied and how thick it is. But it's definitely quite extreme in my example. Sure it's the most worn spot on the jacket, but I didn't fall or crash or scrape it somehow and I can clearly see that it will wear similarly in some other spots. And it's not only the fact that the top coat is wearing but also what is under it - seems rather loose / shabby / buffed rather than high density top grain.

On the same note @ABCD maybe you have some other non cxl leather examples of aniline tea core fading?

 

[Zoro]

Sure it's the most worn spot on the jacket, but I didn't fall or crash or scrape it somehow and I can clearly see that it will wear similarly in some other spots

To me it looks as if you had used a precision knife to expose the undercoat. Considering you've had it for 2? months, that's quite extreme.

 

[TartuWolf]

To me it looks as if you had used a precision knife to expose the undercoat. Considering you've had it for 2? months, that's quite extreme.

In the name of science right?
There are other similar spots over the jacket, this one is just the most extreme where I clearly rubbed on something more than usual.
Either way, it shows very well HOW the top coat will fade with time and what is underneath.

 

[jchance]

Fast fading topcoat is desirable in certain brand like Fine Creek, but that’s what protects the leather from the environment. Usually it’s a sign of low quality “paint”, as high quality “paint” (in houses, furnitures, etc.) lasts for years or decades, without stripping off.

 

[ABCD]

You are correct that they are different finishes, but shouldn't it be the oposite by design? Meaning that I'd expect aniline to wear faster and more dramatically than a pigment finish.

No, aniline 'tea core' will fade much more gradually because the black dye is absorbed into the upper layer of the leather vs pigment which lays on top.

On the same note @ABCD maybe you have some other non cxl leather examples of aniline tea core fading?

Let's start with the OG that repro brands are trying to reproduce, a late 50s steerhide Buco. It looks to be vegetable tanned with a pigment dye topcoat.

Shinki horsehide, vegetable tanned with pigment dye topcoat. As you can see the top coat tends to chip off in places of wear. Not a good look imo.

Veg tanned full aniline horsehide. Brown base, hand dyed black using aniline dye.

 

[TartuWolf]

@ABCD
Thank you for the examples. I definitely prefer the aniline version like the 3rd example you posted. A Thedi perhaps?
What leather is that? I understand that it's "Veg tanned full aniline horsehide", but do you know more about the source?
I'd like to know what other specific options are there in terms of that kind of leather. The only tannery/product specific one that I know of is black CXL.
The tea core world seems to be heavily dominated by pigment finishes.

On a side note - here are a few nice shots of my friends Vanson C2. Is that pigment finishes or aniline/semi-aniline? Super nice tea-core development, seems very gradual to me.

 

[Alfred0]

Great product review! I appreciate the detailed insights

 

[ABCD]

I definitely prefer the aniline version like the 3rd example you posted. A Thedi perhaps?
What leather is that? I understand that it's "Veg tanned full aniline horsehide", but do you know more about the source?
I'd like to know what other specific options are there in terms of that kind of leather.

Yes that's a Thedi. It's full aniline Italian horsehide that was hand dyed by Theodoros.

The tea core world seems to be heavily dominated by pigment finishes.

Tea core is a translation of a Japanese term that is used to describe the brown core color of vegetable tanned leather. It's counterpart is chrome tanned leather which has a greyish core.

On a side note - here are a few nice shots of my friends Vanson C2. Is that pigment finishes or aniline/semi-aniline?

This is most likely chrome tanned pigment dyed leather which has a grey core. The brown tones you're seeing are probably caused by oxidation. So technically this doesn't qualify as teacore since its core is/was grey.

You can see a similar effect on this Lewis Leathers Racing jacket. Grey core because chromed tanned but turned brown after decades of oxidation.

 

[Bluechel]

This is a “hall of fame” post and thread @TartuWolf ! Your approach is thorough and your conclusions are extremely helpful. Wow! What a nice piece. I went through an entirely similar process with my RRIII purchase, and I must say that you covered it perfectly for anyone looking to go through the journey.
I will add (my opinion) that Leilah is a joy to communicate with, a true fanatic (in the best way) and an important person in our beloved leather jacket universe. She has a deep love of design, quality and making compelling products that buyers bond with for the long haul. I’m hoping for amazing things from her and willing to bet on her. You have to admit…the journey is fascinating. Thanks for the hard work on this!

 

[TartuWolf]

@Bluechel Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed the write up. Have you shared your RR3 jacket? Would be interesting to see it of you haven't.
I'd say it's currently my least favorite jacket from my "keeper" lineup, mostly because of the tight sleeves and the leather. I'll see how much I wear it during the warm season (which it is intended for) next year. Then I can decide whether to keep it or put it up for sale.
I hope you're enjoying yours more!
There's a recent first review of the new "Olympia" line by one TFL member by the way, talking about the RW journey - that's a new milestone.

 

[Quest]

May I ask - how is the "fit" working after owning for a while? I got the RR2 version back in late spring, but not enough change to wear until now with the weather actually getting colder.

First time wearing it in the car - immediately noticed a "pinch"/tightening in my the kidney area, which made it difficult to move the arms. And I usually sit more upright...and rotating the wheel was a bit annoying. Would have been worse in my manual Miata lol.

I took the below pictures. The "gusset/football" is quite odd and not appearing to do very much, while the rest of the jacketi s compensating hard - and confirming the "pinch". The fit when I put it on - everything is where it should be from the waist (standard 42 - this is a Large RR2) to where the sleeves end. Yet the difference from sleeves at rest (touching the knuckle of my thumb) to retracting 3 inches is quite a move.

I put on my T&S Golden Bear Moto & Aero Highwayman, both sized for a 42 / L, and they maintain their composure in movement. Just better overall cut and pattern I guess.

A bit disappointing, maybe this is an area for improvement on the Rugged Rider, or maybe there is something that doesn't work with my more "box" body type. Maybe not an issue for skinnier or "V" / Athletic shape. Curious to see what OP may have noticed with the 3rd version. Obviously I can just take it off when hopping in a car (not the Miata convertible though!), but on the flip side when discussing these more budget friendly brands - a lot of focus is on the leather quality and stitching which seems impressive for the price... but actual function should be highlighted too. There's a reason the other big boys have been around a while and have a few things figured out. Clothing still gotta do it's job. I'm of the personality that once I throw it on I don't want to think about it too hard - a leather jacket should handle most of what is coming my way.

 

[ABCD]

when discussing these more budget friendly brands - a lot of focus is on the leather quality and stitching which seems impressive for the price... but actual function should be highlighted too.

+1

I think reviewers of these budget friendly alternatives tend to focus on shiny leather and nice stitching, because those can easily be judged even by someone who has never handled a leather jacket before (talking in general, I'm not referring to the OP).

To be able to judge a jacket's pattern, one needs to have experience with at least a dozen different makers, different styles and both good and bad patterns. Typically, buyers of these budget friendly jackets do not have that kind of experience.

 

[TartuWolf]

Thanks for sharing your experience @Quest !

From what I can see the shoulder gussets of your RR are not very functional, at least in comparison to my full action back version.
I suppose such shoulder gussets are only really useful for downward reaching (tieing your shoes for example) and not very useful when lifting your arms straight forward because that pulls a lot more on the lats (where a full action back works).

Marc could have put it his point forward in a nicer way but I completely agree that judging pattern is an advanced skill.
For me it is a balance between having a good looking pattern (for example we often speak negatively of JP "tube" patterns) and a comfortable/mobile pattern. Best pattern makers manage to combine both of course.
My Aero Hooch Hauler is a beautiful pattern, but not a very mobile one - you're trading trim/slim looks for mobility.
On the other hand my Vanson E is not as beautiful with the bulkier and moto-long sleeves (although side laces work very well as far as creating a slim silhouette), but the mobility and comfort is out of this world.

Sure pattern is also about proportions, feature (like pockets, half belts..) placement, etc., but I mostly see it as how close the jacket fits to the body all over in terms of aesthetics. Not too tight, not too loose everywhere (like biceps, elbows, hem, waist, etc..).
From that regard my own RR fits me very well (because I specified my own measurements) but they did not follow my elbow measurement request and the finished jacket has elbows that are too tight. Not only is that not comfortable but it doesn't look good either in my opinion.

A shortcut / cheat for mobility are mobiity features like shoulder gussets (like your jacket), full action backs (like my jacket). Stretchier thinner leather obviously helps a LOT as well.
In my both the mobility features and thinner stretchier leather are very generous as far as making the jacket comfortable. If it was a shoulder gusset or plain back in stiffer thicker leather then it wouldn't be nearly as comfortable unless upper back space was increased.

Also there's pattern in relation to a specific body vs pattern universality. The best patterns tend to work for the widest range of bodies (still within size limits obviously) but I can only vaguely understand/imagine how that works, that's where my knowledge/experience ends. How a specific pattern works for a specific person (body) is easier to comment.

Overall the RW RR3 jacket is my least favorite at the moment, I tend to reach for it least even when the weather is appropriate (t-shirt only). mostly because of the leather (which is okay at best, even for the price, rather meh in my personal opinion) and the narrow elbows. I even spent some money to get the cuffs narrowed down (overly wide cuffs are a consistently re-occuring flaw of RW jackets). This would obviously not be the case if I didn't have such incredible other jackets! Spoiled by good things.

The fit/comfort is not changing as there's no "breaking-in" with this leather. It is what it is.

I don't think your issues will go away (cuffs sliding up, discomfort/pressure points), hard to say whether you will get used to it / accept it or continue to live in doubt like I currently do as far as this jacket goes
Either way, hope it works out for you, whether through accepting the jacket for what it is or moving it on. I will also be deciding next season whether to keep it or move it on and cut my losses. Currently leaning more towards moving it on if I find an interested party.

 

[Quest]

@TartuWolf

Glad to see the full action back is more functional and works better, hopefully this info guides others in their purchases. My Aero manages to have good mobility by simply having more "side of body" material and those small cinch belts if needed to tighten.

Sorry to hear about elbows, that is also another key area for mobility that needs to be nailed, though it looks like it isn't sliding back too bad. You look pretty awesome in it, if you end up keeping it as a 'statement' piece!

I generally want to recommend Rugged West as a great "Starting" brand for anyone who isn't part of this leather and menswear cult as they probably would be blown away (vs anything mall brand) and wear that jacket for the rest of their life completely satisfied.

Basically if any friend asks "hey I see you wear a lot of leather, I was getting interested". I just want to have a good safe answer, with high odds of customer satisfaction. Same with cars, a friend or family member who notices I am a bit obseessed asks what to buy for their next car...I just want to say "Toyota/Lexus" because well, it works. I can say it without thinking and knowing they will probably be satisfied and it won't leave them stranded. Probably impossible for leather jackets though.

Thus for me having good standard sizing and design that fit a variety of body shapes (as you noted) would be key, but of course I don't know what RW's actual market and sales look like and who is doing all the buying.

Great write up otherwise on pattern theory. I always write things with consideration that someone may be reading it in a few years and consider those factors, lets hope your review and comments elighten future readers.

@ABCD
Appears to be so!
Not to open a whole can of worms, but seeing all the new Chinese brand as well, I would like to see more of the function in the conversations. I also have a bone to pick with all the boot reviews I see on Reddit - paragraphs of "first impressions" and glazing over the leather and perfect welt joints, which is all good since these things are expensive, but very little on the actual comfort and break in, especially For those of us blessed with flat or overarched feet!

 

[Zoro]

I also have a bone to pick with all the boot reviews I see on Reddit - paragraphs of "first impressions" and glazing over the leather and perfect welt joints, which is all good since these things are expensive, but very little on the actual comfort and break in, especially For those of us blessed with flat or overarched feet!

Most people (in and out of Reddit) are very excited with a purchase and jump straight into reviewing it without having really used it. They can't talk about comfort or break in because they've had the shoes for 2 days max. This works for performance items, but not for every day use items.

You just need to find the X months reviews, which are rarer but exist. To make matters worse specifically with Reddit, their search engine is whack, so it's just best to query on Google with, for example: months review site:reddit.com/r/Boots