Hidden in Plain Schott: the 613SH Perfecto

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

Not necessarily. For sure Schott has used Talon. I've had at least 2 or 3 jackets that had them as original zippers. You can write to Jeri at Schott for more info, but I don't think it would be out of the norm if they used some Scovills. And even if it was replaced, at least you got a vintage zipper. Just hope they did a decent job with the repair. Maybe get some close up shots of the zipper tape.

 

[Albe64]

Not necessarily. For sure Schott has used Talon. I've had at least 2 or 3 jackets that had them as original zippers. You can write to Jeri at Schott for more info, but I don't think it would be out of the norm if they used some Scovills. And even if it was replaced, at least you got a vintage zipper. Just hope they did a decent job with the repair. Maybe get some close up shots of the zipper tape.

Thank you!! Do you have an email of Jeri?

 

[Mrfrown]

Thank you!! Do you have an email of Jeri?

She replied to a customerservice@schottnyc.com email I sent, as well as from jerri@schottnyc.com

 

[Albe64]

She replied to a customerservice@schottnyc.com email I sent, as well as from jerri@schottnyc.com

Many thanks!

 

[Monitor]

Exactly. I guess that a 613 is born with a Talon zip....a Scovill zip should mean that the front zip has been replaced. Am I right?

Not necessarily. There are no rules. Schott often switched between different zipper brands and the 613 isn't a very old model, anyway.

The jacket that we know as the 613 has been introduced & continuously produced since the 1990's so majority of the jackets that you can expect to find floating on the 2nd hand market will much sooner have Scovill, Lenzip, Ideal, EMAR & ultimately Schott branded YKK's installed as a main zipper.

Actually, I don't believe they've ever used TALON on a 613. . .

 

[roadking04]

I am actually wearing my 618 as I am reading this thread. lol. I just figured it was a Schott branded YKK. I just took my jacket off and looked. It is a Schott branded Ideal. My jacket is a 2021 steerhide 618.

 

[Albe64]

Not necessarily. There are no rules. Schott often switched between different zipper brands and the 613 isn't a very old model, anyway.

The jacket that we know as the 613 has been introduced & continuously produced since the 1990's so majority of the jackets that you can expect to find floating on the 2nd hand market will much sooner have Scovill, Lenzip, Ideal, EMAR & ultimately Schott branded YKK's installed as a main zipper.

Actually, I don't believe they've ever used TALON on a 613. . .

I believed that Brando's One Star was a 613....and that it was definitely older than 618....

 

[Monitor]

I am actually wearing my 618 as I am reading this thread. lol. I just figured it was a Schott branded YKK. I just took my jacket off and looked. It is a Schott branded Ideal. My jacket is a 2021 steerhide 618.

Yep, any 201X jacket most likely has Schott branded IDEAL. All of mine did. Good zipper.

I believed that Brando's One Star was a 613....and that it was definitely older than 618....

If you're referring to the Wild One, Brando isn't even wearing a Schott in that movie.

613 as a designation model number has been given to the specific Perfecto leather jacket in the 90's & it started off as a 618 without collar snaps and with epaulets stars. These are all relatively recent models. The 613 and the 618 isn't the same jacket Schott produced during the 50's or the 60's.

 

[Marc mndt]

613 as a designation model number has been given to the specific Perfecto leather jacket in the 90's & it started off as a 618 without collar snaps and with epaulets stars. These are all relatively recent models. The 613 and the 618 isn't the same jacket Schott produced during the 50's or the 60's.

In the 50s and 60s they were simply called 'perfecto'.

 

[Albe64]

Yep, any 201X jacket most likely has Schott branded IDEAL. All of mine did. Good zipper.



If you're referring to the Wild One, Brando isn't even wearing a Schott in that movie.

613 as a designation model number has been given to the specific Perfecto leather jacket in the 90's & it started off as a 618 without collar snaps and with epaulets stars. These are all relatively recent models. The 613 and the 618 isn't the same jacket Schott produced during the 50's or the 60's.

Thank you for the explanation....in Italy we were buying Perfectos in the early '80s and some of them were vintage so I have always believed that both 613 and 618 were at least from one decade earlier ('70s)...

As you are so deep in this topic, could you tell me why there are some differences of fit/cut within the same model? I have an old 618 which is "boxy" and very short (waist compared to the sleeves), and a friend of mine has another 618, still from the '80s, but slightly slimmer and longer?

 

[Monitor]

In the 50s and 60s they were simply called 'perfecto'.

View attachment 396392 View attachment 396393

Yep, no model numbers or anything. And these were different jackets. Well, to us. To everyone else, it's the same jacket so it is relevant.

As you are so deep in this topic, could you tell me why there are some differences of fit/cut within the same model? I have an old 618 which is "boxy" and very short (waist compared to the sleeves), and a friend of mine has another 618, still from the '80s, but slightly slimmer and longer?

Schott Perfecto pattern was never consistent as the company would always adapt the jacket according to the fit preference of any certain era so it's impossible to say.

 

[Edward]

As mentioned yesterday in WAYWT, I picked up a 613SH yesterday from the factory sale. [Before you get your hopes up, and line up to get one at 70% off, the 613SH was not a clearance sale item; I bought it from stock. There were CXL 613s in the clearance area though…]

Jason Schott, David Schott, their other family members (not public-facing so I won't name them), and the rest of the staff were just fantastic.



There isn't all that much information about this jacket online, apart from a few scraps spread across TFL and the Schott forums, so I'm hoping to rectify this.

It's been a long path to the jacket and– in the end– it was the vehement contempt for Schott and their leather from much of the site (with some notable exceptions like @Monitor and @Carlos840) that convinced me [by reaction] that I wanted the Perfecto, rather than just a Perfecto-inspired jacket from elsewhere. I had sort of tacitly accepted the Schott stigma for years, then realized I had no actual basis for it– having avoided the brand as a result.

I first tried on couple of models (the 618HH and 619) at a shop but while they were enough to make it quite clear that these were the peer of more expensive brands I'd gone for first, neither was quite the jacket I was looking for (though my experience trying them out gave me a frame for sizing reference that was valuable when I was looking at spec sheets for other Schotts.)

The 613S seemed to be the ticket, because it had the 'retro Perfecto' features without being a pure fashion jacket (626), pre-distressed (PER70), or alpha-sized (519, 626, the entire PER line). I'm not against those jackets, but I wanted my first Perfecto to do it all, and this covered it.

A quick initial note: despite it often being described as a 'slim' model as shorthand, the 613S doesn't fit more slimly than the 613/618 overall. It's a more rectangular back panel, like that on the pre-80s jackets, but completely comparable in fit. Schott's advice to size up one from your measured chest size is well taken. (It is not 'size up for the stereotypical slouchy American fit'.) I'm a 40 in most jackets and coats, including slim ones, but went 42 for this.

The chest measures an inch wider than 'fits' on comparable DRs, but doesn't feel so, probably because it has the 5.5oz quilted lining and I'm comparing to jackets with fabric liners.

I took a few phone photos in the morning light to highlight the jacket while it is still essentially new. (It was completely uncreased and unworn when it was pulled out of a bag at the factory and handed to me.) Not that anyone will see, but the 613S(H) has the label that Perfecto jackets had from the late 60s to about 71.


View attachment 370381

It's true that the jacket just has a 4.5" drop, but this problem (which I was a little concerned about) has proved to not be much of one in wear. It doesn't feel baggy when worn open, and when worn closed the belt will cinch it an additional four inches.

Speaking of the belt, it has a nice solid buckle. I'd planned to switch it out for a mitered one but this feels so good in hand that I'm in no rush.

It's stitched under the kidney panel, which does a good job of holding the jacket close. I made this one black and white so the leather's grain shows a bit better.

View attachment 370382

View attachment 370388
I think a lot of people are under the impression that Schott's steerhide and horsehide are practically corrected grain, because it's not very scrotal-looking, but there's natural grain (separate from creases) that's quite comparable to the horsehide used by others like Eastman.

I don't have the thick leather fixation that many online do, but this jacket is substantial and will take a lot of breaking in. It's noticeably thicker than CXL, which I didn't wear there (I didn't want to wear a leather jacket there and have it accidentally taken while I was trying something on) but I compared firsthand with a CXL jacket that was there.

View attachment 370389

The bi-swing is highly functional. I have a lot of range of movement in this pattern and, while the underarm footballs of the modern 613/618 would give me further reach, this is definitely not just an aesthetic shoulder detail. If you look in the mirror while raising and stretching out your arms, you can see them at work. The arms are also oriented such that one is very much in comfortable position with them forward.

I'm happy to take more pictures and answer questions as this jacket gets broken in more. The 613S(H) needs a lot more attention from the 'enthusiast' community. It checks boxes that jackets twice the price do not, without being in any way a compromise.

I'm still excited for my upcoming Ridley… but had I had a chance to try the Schotts first, I wonder if I would have gone for something totally different as an Aero order, because while I love and respect Aero, I don't know that it would necessarily be better as a double rider.

This is where it lands compared to my Japanese jackets as well, I think. They're finer in some respects, but I don't know that I'd necessarily say they're better, since there is clearly excellent construction and pattern work here. I continue to enjoy both.

Missed this thread before. Nice looking jacket. I like the overall vibe of the 613; that shine on the leather is nice too. I have a 618 I picked up used some time back. It's not my favourite of my jackets, but it's well put together and nice to wear kicking around. I'd certainly be open to a 613 or a 118 if the right used deal came along again. New Schotts have gone out of the price band I'm prepared to spend on in recent years, though to be fair to them I think that's as much and more to do with the hammering the value of the pound has taken since 2016 rather than anything else - a pound still only buys around USD1.30 even now, which has rocketed up a lot of stuff from over there in price. Good times to be buying UK made bits if you're in a dollar environment, though!

 

[Albe64]

If you're referring to the Wild One, Brando isn't even wearing a Schott in that movie.
[/QUOTE]

It seems a debated topic...I could be wrong but Schott took credit for that jacket (a 613 from the 40's OR a modified 618)

 

[marker2037]

Highly debated.

 

[Marc mndt]

It seems a debated topic...I could be wrong but Schott took credit for that jacket (a 613 from the 40's OR a modified 618)

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/the-legendary-durable-wild-one-jacket.85430/

 

[Tom71]

I said, I won´t buy another Cross-zip, but this thread got my mouth watering. Unsure between sizes 42 and 44 though (the later suggested by Schott´s size-calculator). I did ask about the basic measurements (pending reply), but I am somewhat thinking, I may be right in between sizes.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

I said, I won´t buy another Cross-zip, but this thread got my mouth watering. Unsure between sizes 42 and 44 though (the later suggested by Schott´s size-calculator). I did ask about the basic measurements (pending reply), but I am somewhat thinking, I may be right in between sizes.

In the SH, my instinct is you're a 42 for a snug more rocker look. Still comfortable, but not a lot of room for error. 44 will definitely allow you to layer, but I think it's going to be too big for you. It's a pain with Schott. It's either lanky vegan dudes or beer belly bods. The SH is particularly hard because the shoulders are cut very narrow against the ptp and there's no underarm gusset. So while it will fit, it feels very restrictive.

I think a size 40 118 will fit you perfect, but it's definitely a different cut, different leather (still great in different ways, more matte, softer, etc.), and alas no stars LOL.

 

[Aloysius]

I said, I won´t buy another Cross-zip, but this thread got my mouth watering. Unsure between sizes 42 and 44 though (the later suggested by Schott´s size-calculator). I did ask about the basic measurements (pending reply), but I am somewhat thinking, I may be right in between sizes.

I’ve found the size calculator to be pretty accurate, especially if you indicate slim as your fit preference.

Another option for you is the regular 613 in horse (613H) in size 42; the standard 613/618/118 have a slightly wider shoulder per given size. (So in my case the shoulders of 618 in 40/118 in 38 fit, but those of the 613S in 40 would not.)

The 613H is a bargain right now because it wasn’t included in last year’s Schott price rise.

 

[Tom71]

Thanks much for your thoughts, @TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead and @Aloysius. Really appreciate that!

Jerry got back to me within minutes and sent the size chart. Unfortunately it’s pretty much as you said, @TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead. Size 42 will be pretty good but will feel restrictive in the belly and hem region. Size 44 is very likely too large in the chest (and by “too large” I mean just that, not ”a good fit for layering“.

I really love the pictures of your 613SH, @Aloysius. The leather totally won me over.
I will see if I can try either size in person to see how the jacket behaves in real life. I am not in a hurry.

 

[marker2037]

Thanks much for your thoughts, @TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead and @Aloysius. Really appreciate that!

Jerry got back to me within minutes and sent the size chart. Unfortunately it’s pretty much as you said, @TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead. Size 42 will be pretty good but will feel restrictive in the belly and hem region. Size 44 is very likely too large in the chest (and by “too large” I mean just that, not ”a good fit for layering“.

I really love the pictures of your 613SH, @Aloysius. The leather totally won me over.
I will see if I can try either size in person to see how the jacket behaves in real life. I am not in a hurry.

If you don't mind, could you post the measurements you got on those sizes?