Graffiti on a church.

[LoveMyHats2]

Who wants to change Christmas to Holiday? In my experience, there is Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukka, Happy Solstice/Blessed Yule, and Happy Holidays. Which makes sense since December is a collection of Holy Days. In fact, Christmas as it is celebrated today is a mix of different religions.

Without getting into any politics, there are groups of people that go after towns, civic centers, with law suits, etc., all the time in an effort to do away with even using the word or Christmas, and banning any Nativity scenes. I have no issue with anyone else's religion but hey, this is the USA. Take a walk around the Capital buildings and all around Washington D.C. you see some serious use of the English language on many Monuments and Buildings, with "God" creator, etc. The USA was founded upon the premise of a Christian based belief. There are some rather sad thinking people wanting to destroy anything good about it. This is in no way being stated to take from anyone else's faith by what I say so please don't take it that way.

I heard from a close friend that attends a Salvation Army Church service, one time some idiot decided to do some "streakin" (run naked through the church during that service), one of the members of the Church was a State Police Officer, grabbed the naked guy, hand cuffed him, made him sit all the way through the services before taking him in for the arrest.

For me bottom line, there is NO excuse for anyone to disrespect anyone's religion. Ending note, the worship of a satanic belief, not gonna be considered to have my respect. Nope.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

No, it should not be used at all as an excuse. But you surely don't suggest that there are never mitigating factors that might lessen the culpability of the individual? Delinquent juveniles are indeed very often disturbed, and need help to deal with their issues, along with the punishment that fits their transgression(s). This is what modern incarceration is supposed to achieve, and fails miserably.

Just because they tend to be that way is not an excuse, to explain it away is like saying juvenile delinquents are JD's because they are disturbed. You are what you do. Whether it is carefully deliberated weighed in as a personal social subscription or you simply do something that is clearly wrong, no sad soap story changes this type pf act.

 

[splintercellsz]

One does not use the symbols of a group as a hurtful thing without being attached to that group whether a little of a lot. The fact that they acted made it clear what side they are on.

When I was in school, classmates would occasionally draw a swastika on their papers, desk, and backpacks. Was it because they were affiliated with the NAZI party? No, they actually did it to try to gain a rise from people, as the topic was WWII, and because they thought it was fun.

Just because someone wears all red does NOT mean they are part of the 'Blood Gang', or if someone wears 3 piece suits everyday, and carries a concealed firearm does not mean they are part of the MOB.

By drawing, tagging, speaking of, or wearing a SYMBOL does NOT mean you are affiliated in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Edward]

When I was in school, classmates would occasionally draw a swastika on their papers, desk, and backpacks. Was it because they were affiliated with the NAZA party? No, they actually did it to try to gain a rise from people, as the topic was WWII, and because they thought it was fun.

Just because someone wears all red does NOT mean they are part of the 'Blood Gang', or if someone wears 3 piece suits everyday, and carries a concealed firearm does not mean they are part of the MOB.

By drawing, tagging, speaking of, or wearing a SYMBOL does NOT mean you are affiliated in any way, shape, or form.

Exactly. This will in all likelihood have been a bunch of stupid kids who wanted the negative attention gained from causing upset, and what they chose to daub on the wall was a collection of symbols that they knew would upset the church-going congregation. Had it been a synagogue, they'd have painted a swastika; a mosque, a pig.

 

[vitanola]

For me bottom line, there is NO excuse for anyone to disrespect anyone's religion.

Absolutely!

Ending note, the worship of a satanic belief, not gonna be considered to have my respect. Nope.

A slight contradiction there, no?

So, churches must be respected unless they are not of your denomination? Whilst I would certainly hold no truck with so-called "Satanism", I've heard many belief systems called "Satanic". Jain, Buddism, Mormonism, Unitarianism and even my own denomination of Episcopalianism have been so called!

The mind boggles!

Just this this Easter a drunken vandal set fire to an historic church of our denomination in Hawaii, because he claimed that "Satan was recruiting Liberals" there. In another incident the Toledo house of worship of a member of our ecumenical council was set alight just last September, by a fellow who claimed that by committing arson he was "fighting against terrorists and extremists".


All of this makes me very sad.

 

[sheeplady]

Without getting into any politics, there are groups of people that go after towns, civic centers, with law suits, etc., all the time in an effort to do away with even using the word or Christmas, and banning any Nativity scenes. I have no issue with anyone else's religion but hey, this is the USA. Take a walk around the Capital buildings and all around Washington D.C. you see some serious use of the English language on many Monuments and Buildings, with "God" creator, etc. The USA was founded upon the premise of a Christian based belief. There are some rather sad thinking people wanting to destroy anything good about it. This is in no way being stated to take from anyone else's faith by what I say so please don't take it that way.

The mention of "God" does not imply a Christian belief system. It does imply that a deity does exist, but it says nothing about the god having to be a Christian God. Most religions believe in some sort of God and refer to their deity as such. If the founding fathers wanted to emphasize the Christian belief system, or they truly believed they were founding a Christian nation, they would have made this clear in the Constitution. In addition, if those monuments and buildings were specifying Christianity over other religions, they likely would have made mention of Jesus Christ specifically, given the fact that Jesus Christ is the cornerstone of Christian faiths. The belief in Christ is what separates Christians from other religions. I really don't believe if the intent was to found a nation based on the Christian faith our founding fathers would be so sloppy as to leave Jesus totally out.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Absolutely!



A slight contradiction there, no?

So, churches must be respected unless they are not of your denomination? Whilst I would certainly hold no truck with so-called "Satanism", I've heard many belief systems called "Satanic". Jain, Buddism, Mormonism, Unitarianism and even my own denomination of Episcopalianism have been so called!

The mind boggles!

Just this this Easter a drunken vandal set fire to an historic church of our denomination in Hawaii, because he claimed that "Satan was recruiting Liberals" there. In another incident the Toledo house of worship of a member of our ecumenical council was set alight just last September, by a fellow who claimed that by committing arson he was "fighting against terrorists and extremists".


All of this makes me very sad.

I guess you can view it any way you would like however if you are going to worship a tree stump, I am not going to toss much respect for it your way. NOT because of what I have a faith in, but rather because of that being an empty formality. And in as how that would be, I still would not go and do damage to what your worshipping.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Absolutely!



A slight contradiction there, no?

So, churches must be respected unless they are not of your denomination? Whilst I would certainly hold no truck with so-called "Satanism", I've heard many belief systems called "Satanic". Jain, Buddism, Mormonism, Unitarianism and even my own denomination of Episcopalianism have been so called!

The mind boggles!

Just this this Easter a drunken vandal set fire to an historic church of our denomination in Hawaii, because he claimed that "Satan was recruiting Liberals" there. In another incident the Toledo house of worship of a member of our ecumenical council was set alight just last September, by a fellow who claimed that by committing arson he was "fighting against terrorists and extremists".


All of this makes me very sad.

I guess you can view it any way you would like however if you are going to worship a tree stump, I am not going to toss much respect for it your way. NOT because of what I have a faith in, but rather because of that being an empty formality. And in as how that would be, I still would not go and do damage to what your worshipping.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I prefer the old New England approach to religion -- it's an intensely personal matter, and purely one's own business. I don't try to push my beliefs on anyone else, and my opinion of religious beliefs that differ from my own is completely irrelevant, because they're none of my business. Just as my beliefs are nobody else's business. As long as the peace of the community is maintained and nobody's being forced into anything, minding one's own business seems the best way to go.

I suspect the real-world prevalence of "satanism" is severely exaggerated -- there are likely far more people who think making the "secret devil hand sign" at a heavy metal show is a bold statement than there are actual people who practice satanic rites.

And anyone who would deface a church or a cemetary or the Knights of Pythias Hall or the Spanish-American War Monument or the side of a grocery store with dumb, pointless graffiti is an idiot. "Satanic" logos or swastikas are not a bold statement of rebellion, just as chalk drawings of phalluses are not art.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Washington’s Prayer for the United States of America appears on a plaque in St. Paul ’s chapel in New York City as well as at Pohick Church , Fairfax County , Virginia , where Washington was a vestryman from 1762 to 1784:

Almighty God,

We make our earnest prayer that Thou wilt keep the United States in Thy Holy protection; and Thou wilt incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government; and entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another and for their fellow Citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the Field.

And finally that Thou wilt most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, humility, and pacific temper of mind which were the Characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without a humble imitation of whose example in these things we can never hope to be a happy nation. Grant our supplication, we beseech Thee, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

--George Washington

 

[Baron Kurtz]

But that's at the root of all religious difference. Say someone doesn't believe that your particular prophets/deities/idols/call them what you will are the true bringers of truth. To them, you might as well be worshipping a tree stump … there is no difference between a false prophet and a tree stump, other than the damage they can cause to those who believe in them (so goes the argument of those who believe in a different prophet).

I guess you can view it any way you would like however if you are going to worship a tree stump, I am not going to toss much respect for it your way. NOT because of what I have a faith in, but rather because of that being an empty formality. And in as how that would be, I still would not go and do damage to what your worshipping.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Yes, those were certainly Washington's personal religious beliefs.

 

[sheeplady]

And anyone who would deface a church or a cemetary or the Knights of Pythias Hall or the Spanish-American War Monument or the side of a grocery store with dumb, pointless graffiti is an idiot. "Satanic" logos or swastikas are not a bold statement of rebellion, just as chalk drawings of phalluses are not art.

It's extremely distasteful. If it's not your property, don't touch. Is that really such a hard concept for people?

When I was at college, my dorm was connected to another dorm with a beautiful archway which was a WWI memorial for the students and alumni who lost their lives in the war. People would come and chalk in the memorial about events and such, including on the walls right next to the names of the fallen (with their class years). This was a problem because A. It was disrespectful and B. It wouldn't just wash off because it was covered by the archway. Now I have no problem with chalking on the sidewalks but in a memorial is just really, really wrong. And that was just chalk which came off easily.

 

[sheeplady]

Washington’s Prayer for the United States of America appears on a plaque in St. Paul ’s chapel in New York City as well as at Pohick Church , Fairfax County , Virginia , where Washington was a vestryman from 1762 to 1784:

Almighty God,

We make our earnest prayer that Thou wilt keep the United States in Thy Holy protection; and Thou wilt incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government; and entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another and for their fellow Citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the Field.

And finally that Thou wilt most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, humility, and pacific temper of mind which were the Characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without a humble imitation of whose example in these things we can never hope to be a happy nation. Grant our supplication, we beseech Thee, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

--George Washington

So, this is his personal prayer for the country which appears in a religious organization that he belongs to... that is not nearly the same thing as it appearing on a national building or in the constitution sanctioned by the state.

 

[ThemThereEyes]

Without getting into any politics, there are groups of people that go after towns, civic centers, with law suits, etc., all the time in an effort to do away with even using the word or Christmas, and banning any Nativity scenes. I have no issue with anyone else's religion but hey, this is the USA. Take a walk around the Capital buildings and all around Washington D.C. you see some serious use of the English language on many Monuments and Buildings, with "God" creator, etc. The USA was founded upon the premise of a Christian based belief. There are some rather sad thinking people wanting to destroy anything good about it. This is in no way being stated to take from anyone else's faith by what I say so please don't take it that way.

I heard from a close friend that attends a Salvation Army Church service, one time some idiot decided to do some "streakin" (run naked through the church during that service), one of the members of the Church was a State Police Officer, grabbed the naked guy, hand cuffed him, made him sit all the way through the services before taking him in for the arrest.

For me bottom line, there is NO excuse for anyone to disrespect anyone's religion. Ending note, the worship of a satanic belief, not gonna be considered to have my respect. Nope.

Love that he was made to sit through church naked and cuffed! I agree, I see no reason in defiling any place of worship. It's distasteful and makes my stomach turn.

 

[LizzieMaine]

INFIDEL (noun): In New York, one who does not believe in the Christian religion. In Constantinople, one who does.
--- Ambrose Bierce.

 

[ThemThereEyes]

Absolutely!



A slight contradiction there, no?

So, churches must be respected unless they are not of your denomination? Whilst I would certainly hold no truck with so-called "Satanism", I've heard many belief systems called "Satanic". Jain, Buddism, Mormonism, Unitarianism and even my own denomination of Episcopalianism have been so called!

The mind boggles!

Just this this Easter a drunken vandal set fire to an historic church of our denomination in Hawaii, because he claimed that "Satan was recruiting Liberals" there. In another incident the Toledo house of worship of a member of our ecumenical council was set alight just last September, by a fellow who claimed that by committing arson he was "fighting against terrorists and extremists".


All of this makes me very sad.

That is awful! So sorry that happened! Not surprising of the ignorance behind such crimes. The one in Hawaii got a two-fer-one of moronic ideas, associating Satan with a Christian church and not knowing the actual definition of a liberal.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

So, this is his personal prayer for the country which appears in a religious organization that he belongs to... that is not nearly the same thing as it appearing on a national building or in the constitution sanctioned by the state.

I would have to attend writing about twenty pages here on this topic, however, each of the founding fathers had prayers and debated what and how to base the Constitution so it would allow the total freedom of religion. Make no mistake, if you study what they all did, they were all seemingly very inspired by God, ending most of their prayers "in the name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ", and very clearly were not in prayer to the lord of the tree trunk in the south pole, and opened and closed almost every single meeting they had as groups or in private when working on the building of the United States, with a prayer. I cannot think they were praying to a God of any other venue, or there would be no mention of Jesus Christ in what they prayed, or is there something that would connect it all better for anyone to think of it?

Thomas Jefferson left his family some writings that go into great details of each of the founding father's belief and how they worked on the making of the USA and his own deep rooted faith. In his later years, he had some intense conversations with his family members. To say the USA is not based upon a premise of Christ, of God, to me and for me, would like being said the Eiffel Tower is not located in Paris. It is even beyond that, it is open for ALL people to have a faith of which they choose. " A Charity that magnifies all good things in the eyes of the Lord".

And the words, Of God or God do appear on all the major buildings and monuments all throughout the capital. Based upon not being Sherlock Holmes but in knowing the basic foundation of the founding father's beliefs, I find it very easy to make a safe bet they connected the word God to the God of which most Christian based faiths know and understand.

 

[ThemThereEyes]

I prefer the old New England approach to religion -- it's an intensely personal matter, and purely one's own business. I don't try to push my beliefs on anyone else, and my opinion of religious beliefs that differ from my own is completely irrelevant, because they're none of my business. Just as my beliefs are nobody else's business. As long as the peace of the community is maintained and nobody's being forced into anything, minding one's own business seems the best way to go.

I suspect the real-world prevalence of "satanism" is severely exaggerated -- there are likely far more people who think making the "secret devil hand sign" at a heavy metal show is a bold statement than there are actual people who practice satanic rites.

And anyone who would deface a church or a cemetery or the Knights of Pythias Hall or the Spanish-American War Monument or the side of a grocery store with dumb, pointless graffiti is an idiot. "Satanic" logos or swastikas are not a bold statement of rebellion, just as chalk drawings of phalluses are not art.

Well said! I am also glad you mentioned the hand gesture. Many people do not realize that is actually a sign to ward off the "evil eye," and also has Christian origins. In fact , Dio introduced it into the rock scene, having taken it from his Catholic grandmother.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Well said! I am also glad you mentioned the hand gesture. Many people do not realize that is actually a sign to ward off the "evil eye," and also has Christian origins. In fact , Dio introduced it into the rock scene, having taken it from his Catholic grandmother.

Fascinating. Same way the Vulcan Salute that Mr. Spock is always giving is actually a Jewish gesture, used in rabbinical blessings.

When I was growing up we had a very religious neighbor who refused to patronize our gas station. We were friendly with them, and couldn't understand why -- until they pointed to the Texaco sign out front. "The five pointed star is a Satanic symbol," they explained in all seriousness. There's just no way to answer that kind of reasoning.