A-2 leather jacket, looking for guide

[mmcsee]

I’ve been on the hunt for an A-2 leather jacket in size 38, but having a hard time deciphering all the options

I see options from The Real Mccoys, Buzz Rickson, Eastman leather and a few more, but I’m looking for a more extensive guide that includes other brands.

I’m also quite interested in a vintage guide so that I can better identify what I see in my local vintage and thrift stores.

Feel free to send any articles or resources you’ve found helpful

 

[jchance]

VLJ loves A-2. Here is their comprehensive guide to vintage:

https://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/the-mighty-a-2-a-guide-to-the-army-air-forces’-leather-flying-jacket.35493/

From my reading, the best A-2 repro money can buy is Goodwear.

Size 38 (my size) is not that hard to find vintage. That’s what I would go for, if you’re patient.

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

I learned a lot from reading the Good Wear Leather Coat Company website. It gives a detailed breakdown of each of the original A-2 manufacturers and describes how their patterns vary. He also has photos of each one.

https://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/a2_bronco.html

 

[mmcsee]

VLJ loves A-2. Here is their comprehensive guide to vintage:

https://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/the-mighty-a-2-a-guide-to-the-army-air-forces’-leather-flying-jacket.35493/

From my reading, the best A-2 repro money can buy is Goodwear.

Size 38 (my size) is not that hard to find vintage. That’s what I would go for, if you’re patient.

Thanks for the link!

Where do you suggest people look for jackets? Ebay seems like the first place to look

 

[jchance]

Thanks for the link!

Where do you suggest people look for jackets? Ebay seems like the first place to look

The easiest place to find a vintage A-2 leather jacket is in a closet of someone your size. That would be a WTB post on VLJ and here.

Outside of that, eBay is the usual prospect. It has the largest marketplace and reach.

If you know what to look for, I like using the Gem app. It scours eBay, Etsy, grailed, Depop, etc. for keywords, then show pics and measurements.

 

[mmcsee]

I learned a lot from reading the Good Wear Leather Coat Company website. It gives a detailed breakdown of each of the original A-2 manufacturers and describes how their patterns vary. He also has photos of each one.

https://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/a2_bronco.html

Thanks for sending this over! They remind me of Eastman since they replicate a few of the same original manufacturers

 

[Camel24hrs]

Goodwear you will have a 12 month wait on average. From what I hear he is the most accurate at least to the OCD guys. John is a great guy and easy to talk to.

I own two Rough Wear contracts from Eastman. You can buy them from Historical Preservation Association if you are here in the states. They have them in stock. Talk to Charles and he can direct you in sizing.

I’ll say this about Eastman, only about 100 or so guys out of 8 billion people in the world can find some small detail that may not be right. However the other 8 billion in the world recognize a beautiful jacket when they see it. The leather is just stunning. I have people who don’t know a damn thing about A2s stop me all the time and ask me where I got my jackets from.

 

[Edward]

The A2's a funny one. I've owned two in my time - an Aero '42 pattern, and an Eastman (a Roughwear, I think). The Aero was seal goat, the Eastman their version of seal brown (is it "Havana" they called it? Can't recall) horse. They both shrunk in the wardrobe in the end, so no longer mine, but had them both for a few years. I much preferred the Aero to wear. The quality of both was great. The Aero had a little extra pizazz with a 77th Fighter group (paint on leather) patch and a USAAF roundel, the Eastman was plain. Estman had the regular mustard cotton lining, the Aero a red cotton-silk 'Ace' lining. Both bought used, in ebay, that way. At the time of purchase I assumed I'd have used the plain jacket more often, but I actually ended up wearing the Aero all the time (and it was the one I'd have kept, if only it had been the size I am now. In the end it turned out the ebay buyer was none other than Ken himself, so it went home to have the damaged knits replaced and be brought back to top shape, which was nice).

The main reason I think the Aero became my favourite of the two was the finish of it. The seal goat broke in very nicely, but didn't wear out, whereas the horse on the ELC had noticeably wear at points of stress and didn't look as 'tidy'. Which was a consideration for me, given I tend to wear these jackets to the office in shoulder season, and I like them not to look odd with a collar and tie. For all the ELC one should have been the more subtle, it was the one that felt wrong in that context.

In term of details.... Goodwear are beautiful, and hard to distinguish from the "real thing". Or at least..... a very, very, exceptionally good version of the real thing.... (I'll come back to that point). Eastman are great too (all things being equal, including my preference for goat over horse in an A2). The Aero A2s were looked don on by some purists for a long time, but with the work Ken put into redrafting the patterns, particularly the ones that pertain to the original Aero Beaconsfield supplier (also the only way now, I think other that GW, to whom Aero have licensed the name) to readily get one with the actual Aero label in them, if that matters to you) are very good indeed.

The big question to me comes down to how exactly we understand authenticity. Remember, there was no, one, "correct" pattern for the A2. Yes, there was a specification, but each supplier interpreted that slightly differently - hence the market for contract-specific reproductions. The repros we have now are based on skilled reproducers handling a representative sample of originals.... and therein lies the rub. With mass-produced garments, especially in leather, and doubly, trebly, so when you get into the period of wartime demand and supply, I start to question the concept of authenticity. QA was less strict in the period of heavy demand, factories were churning out jackets at such a high rate, variation was inevitable. With a wartime contract in particular, we can certainly have - and I've seen - reproductions that perfectly reflect specific original examples. Whether that makes them more accurate that others with tiny variations from those jackets here and there.... I mean, I've seen originals with odd pocket flap shapes, one pocket a full inch higher than the one on the other side, a collar that doesn't sit right because it's been cut asymmetrically and/or sewn on funny... Are those jackets - which would be instantly rejected if presented for sale today - "wrong", or less authentic? It come back to what we mean by those terms, doesn't it?

There's an argument that these were cheap, mass-produced, utilitarian jackets, and the nearest equivalent to having one of those thrown at you in the size the QM thinks is right would be to buy one from Kay Canvas or one of the other, more budget minded reproducers today. But the premium reproduction market is a very different thing again. They're not making jackets to their interpretation of the spec, but rather seeking to reproduce to the nearest detail a specific jacket, in a much smaller production run, using artisanal skills.... add all that in, it's much more intensive, much more expensive to produce. And as the cost of production - and therefore retail price - rises, so too, quite understandably, do buyer expectations. The end result is beautiful jackets that absolutely reflect originals - in some cases are indistinguishable from them. Whether that's authenticity depends on how you define authenticity. Then I suppose there's the accuracy of the content.... I mean, when two men in their fifties end up arguing over whose size 50R A2 reproduction is the more authentic..... [which I say as an overweight man now in his fifties].


We can of course all be grateful we're privileged enough to live in an era when these are the choices we have rather than being in a position where the durability of our jackets is of less significance because our life expectancy has been greatly reduced by the very task for which we've been issued them.

As to what I'd choose in an A2, money no object.... Goodwear would probably be out for me because I don't think I could commit to the wait time (I do regret not springing for one of John's jackets in that golden period around 2008/9 when there wasn't much of a waiting list and the dollar/pound conversion rate meant they were about £400 - at that point in time that put them about £100 over an ELC or Aero price wise). ELC are a great option if the price doesn't stump you and their OTR business model works for you. Aero would probably be my choice, one of their Aero contracts.... Though of the big names, if I was spending that sort of money on an A2, I'd probably plump for an Aero, one of the red knit contracts. In goat, or maaaaaybe vicenza. Though I suspect my next A2 - to be able to have a bit of fun with it without worrying - will be one of the cheaper, 'budget' options. I'm still tempted to have a Hilts repro (the A2 that started my interest in them, as it did for many of us), or maybe one with the CBI patches for the 'hump' route, as they always appealed visually. Something about blood chits, I think. I'm seriously tempted, however, by a russet A2 with a BPRD logo patch put together in the same manner as an original leather-piece patch.

But I'm digressing....

In terms of the 'best' A2s, there's one out there for everyone. The Japanese jackets are great, though some of those labels do go off-book here and there adjusting the fit for the local market (back to what you consider 'authentic'...). The big names in the West remain ELC, Aero, Goodwear.... So much will depend on personal preference and/or budget. Both in terms of how much you can afford to spend and how much you want to spend (personally I can justify spending much more on a civilian jacket than on an A2 as I'll wear the former much more, but if you want an A2 jacket to wear forever and a day as an only jacket, a bigger spend might be more viable). There's a lot to be said for scouring the used market on VLJ, eBay, and elsewhere. If you like one of the Aero jackets, worth keeping an eye for something turning up on their trainee pages, or their sale pages (they do take in pre-worn Aero jacket in trade at time and sell them on.).

John A Maguire's Silver Wings & Leather Jackets has great photos of originals. Not a cheap book, but very nice. I'm sure there are other good ones out there as well folks can recommend.

There are some great older threads on A2s and original bits if you go digging round here. The military jackets used to be quite a dominant interest on TFL twenty odd years ago or so, though much less so now. A lot of that discussion migrated over to VLJ; the level of crossover with TFL and there ebbs and flows from time to time. When I last looked in on VLJ it was more focussed on actual vintage pieces whereas TFL has had more discussion about reproductions in recent years, though I'm sure that varies too.

 

[jeepTj98]

The A2's a funny one. I've owned two in my time - an Aero '42 pattern, and an Eastman (a Roughwear, I think). The Aero was seal goat, the Eastman their version of seal brown (is it "Havana" they called it? Can't recall) horse. They both shrunk in the wardrobe in the end, so no longer mine, but had them both for a few years. I much preferred the Aero to wear. The quality of both was great. The Aero had a little extra pizazz with a 77th Fighter group (paint on leather) patch and a USAAF roundel, the Eastman was plain. Estman had the regular mustard cotton lining, the Aero a red cotton-silk 'Ace' lining. Both bought used, in ebay, that way. At the time of purchase I assumed I'd have used the plain jacket more often, but I actually ended up wearing the Aero all the time (and it was the one I'd have kept, if only it had been the size I am now. In the end it turned out the ebay buyer was none other than Ken himself, so it went home to have the damaged knits replaced and be brought back to top shape, which was nice).

The main reason I think the Aero became my favourite of the two was the finish of it. The seal goat broke in very nicely, but didn't wear out, whereas the horse on the ELC had noticeably wear at points of stress and didn't look as 'tidy'. Which was a consideration for me, given I tend to wear these jackets to the office in shoulder season, and I like them not to look odd with a collar and tie. For all the ELC one should have been the more subtle, it was the one that felt wrong in that context.

In term of details.... Goodwear are beautiful, and hard to distinguish from the "real thing". Or at least..... a very, very, exceptionally good version of the real thing.... (I'll come back to that point). Eastman are great too (all things being equal, including my preference for goat over horse in an A2). The Aero A2s were looked don on by some purists for a long time, but with the work Ken put into redrafting the patterns, particularly the ones that pertain to the original Aero Beaconsfield supplier (also the only way now, I think other that GW, to whom Aero have licensed the name) to readily get one with the actual Aero label in them, if that matters to you) are very good indeed.

The big question to me comes down to how exactly we understand authenticity. Remember, there was no, one, "correct" pattern for the A2. Yes, there was a specification, but each supplier interpreted that slightly differently - hence the market for contract-specific reproductions. The repros we have now are based on skilled reproducers handling a representative sample of originals.... and therein lies the rub. With mass-produced garments, especially in leather, and doubly, trebly, so when you get into the period of wartime demand and supply, I start to question the concept of authenticity. QA was less strict in the period of heavy demand, factories were churning out jackets at such a high rate, variation was inevitable. With a wartime contract in particular, we can certainly have - and I've seen - reproductions that perfectly reflect specific original examples. Whether that makes them more accurate that others with tiny variations from those jackets here and there.... I mean, I've seen originals with odd pocket flap shapes, one pocket a full inch higher than the one on the other side, a collar that doesn't sit right because it's been cut asymmetrically and/or sewn on funny... Are those jackets - which would be instantly rejected if presented for sale today - "wrong", or less authentic? It come back to what we mean by those terms, doesn't it?

There's an argument that these were cheap, mass-produced, utilitarian jackets, and the nearest equivalent to having one of those thrown at you in the size the QM thinks is right would be to buy one from Kay Canvas or one of the other, more budget minded reproducers today. But the premium reproduction market is a very different thing again. They're not making jackets to their interpretation of the spec, but rather seeking to reproduce to the nearest detail a specific jacket, in a much smaller production run, using artisanal skills.... add all that in, it's much more intensive, much more expensive to produce. And as the cost of production - and therefore retail price - rises, so too, quite understandably, do buyer expectations. The end result is beautiful jackets that absolutely reflect originals - in some cases are indistinguishable from them. Whether that's authenticity depends on how you define authenticity. Then I suppose there's the accuracy of the content.... I mean, when two men in their fifties end up arguing over whose size 50R A2 reproduction is the more authentic..... [which I say as an overweight man now in his fifties].


We can of course all be grateful we're privileged enough to live in an era when these are the choices we have rather than being in a position where the durability of our jackets is of less significance because our life expectancy has been greatly reduced by the very task for which we've been issued them.

As to what I'd choose in an A2, money no object.... Goodwear would probably be out for me because I don't think I could commit to the wait time (I do regret not springing for one of John's jackets in that golden period around 2008/9 when there wasn't much of a waiting list and the dollar/pound conversion rate meant they were about £400 - at that point in time that put them about £100 over an ELC or Aero price wise). ELC are a great option if the price doesn't stump you and their OTR business model works for you. Aero would probably be my choice, one of their Aero contracts.... Though of the big names, if I was spending that sort of money on an A2, I'd probably plump for an Aero, one of the red knit contracts. In goat, or maaaaaybe vicenza. Though I suspect my next A2 - to be able to have a bit of fun with it without worrying - will be one of the cheaper, 'budget' options. I'm still tempted to have a Hilts repro (the A2 that started my interest in them, as it did for many of us), or maybe one with the CBI patches for the 'hump' route, as they always appealed visually. Something about blood chits, I think. I'm seriously tempted, however, by a russet A2 with a BPRD logo patch put together in the same manner as an original leather-piece patch.

But I'm digressing....

In terms of the 'best' A2s, there's one out there for everyone. The Japanese jackets are great, though some of those labels do go off-book here and there adjusting the fit for the local market (back to what you consider 'authentic'...). The big names in the West remain ELC, Aero, Goodwear.... So much will depend on personal preference and/or budget. Both in terms of how much you can afford to spend and how much you want to spend (personally I can justify spending much more on a civilian jacket than on an A2 as I'll wear the former much more, but if you want an A2 jacket to wear forever and a day as an only jacket, a bigger spend might be more viable). There's a lot to be said for scouring the used market on VLJ, eBay, and elsewhere. If you like one of the Aero jackets, worth keeping an eye for something turning up on their trainee pages, or their sale pages (they do take in pre-worn Aero jacket in trade at time and sell them on.).

John A Maguire's Silver Wings & Leather Jackets has great photos of originals. Not a cheap book, but very nice. I'm sure there are other good ones out there as well folks can recommend.

There are some great older threads on A2s and original bits if you go digging round here. The military jackets used to be quite a dominant interest on TFL twenty odd years ago or so, though much less so now. A lot of that discussion migrated over to VLJ; the level of crossover with TFL and there ebbs and flows from time to time. When I last looked in on VLJ it was more focussed on actual vintage pieces whereas TFL has had more discussion about reproductions in recent years, though I'm sure that varies too.

I would add lost worlds to your list.. and that’s not because I own own.. lol

 

[Edward]

I would add lost worlds to your list.. and that’s not because I own own.. lol

Yes. We don't hear about them much really. They had a reputation for not being best historically accurate for the A2 Somewhat compounded by Stuart's full and frank expression of his distaste for those he dubs "jacket queens" who, in his view, care rather too much about such thing - to a degree he dubbed "unmanly". I'm not sure that did much for the brands reputation for caring about the details. That said, while I've never handled one I'm sure they are excellent. I have owned a LW B3 which is an absolute beast and has seen me through the worst Winter can throw at it in London, Beijing and Belfast. They are, like most US labels, not a realistic financial option at this end now, but they'd certainly be within the zone of consideration if that changes.

 

[Doctor Death]

The military jackets used to be quite a dominant interest on TFL twenty odd years ago or so, though much less so now. A lot of that discussion migrated over to VLJ

Pardon my ignorance, but what is VLJ? First I'm hearing of that.

 

[Doctor Death]

I think I'll just get an A2 from cockpitusa. I'm not much of a stickler for historical accuracy. And don't feel like paying an arm and a leg either! The Real McCoys? Real Expensive!

 

[TLW '90]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is VLJ? First I'm hearing of that.

Vintage leather jackets.
I have found good info there when it came up in a Google search.

 

[Doctor Death]

Vintage leather jackets.
I have found good info there when it came up in a Google search.

Oh okay, should've thought of that! What with all this military connotation, I was thinking maybe "Veterans Leather Jackets"!

 

[TLW '90]

Have you owned an A2 yet ?
I have heard a number of accounts from people who never really ended up liking the A2.

If not maybe go on Ebay and get an orange label cooper or an '88+ USAF saddlery(by cooper ) A2 for $150 or less to try out.
If you like the jacket you can then get a higher end repro and still have the Cooper / sadlery as a beater, If not you don't have very much money ******* and they always sell well as a great piece for the money.

 

[TLW '90]

Oh okay, should've thought of that! What with all this military connotation, I was thinking maybe "Veterans Leather Jackets"!

I think there's just a lot of collectors there who focus on this stuff.

 

[Edward]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is VLJ? First I'm hearing of that.

As noted above, Vintage Leather Jackets - it's another forum, with a level of crossover membership with us. Focussed entirely on the jackets, though, rather than TFL's broader approach. Interesting place, a little boisterous sometimes, but good information and lot of helpful posts.

I think I'll just get an A2 from cockpitusa. I'm not much of a stickler for historical accuracy. And don't feel like paying an arm and a leg either! The Real McCoys? Real Expensive!

Cockpit have a good reputation here for that mid-price ground. I've hear positive comments also about the budget options from QMI.be and Kay Canvas. The early iteration of the What Price Glory A2 as widely praised at the time, though I don't know if subsequent batches were as well thought of. Can't comment on thee options myself, though, as I've not handled them personally.

 

[jeepTj98]

Yes. We don't hear about them much really. They had a reputation for not being best historically accurate for the A2 Somewhat compounded by Stuart's full and frank expression of his distaste for those he dubs "jacket queens" who, in his view, care rather too much about such thing - to a degree he dubbed "unmanly". I'm not sure that did much for the brands reputation for caring about the details. That said, while I've never handled one I'm sure they are excellent. I have owned a LW B3 which is an absolute beast and has seen me through the worst Winter can throw at it in London, Beijing and Belfast. They are, like most US labels, not a realistic financial option at this end now, but they'd certainly be within the zone of consideration if that changes.

Yeah Stuart sure has a way with words.. lol however I would be interested to know what is not historically correct. I am no expert but other than the leather being so dang thick, I would say it is as close to any good reproduction. Just like your B3, this a2 is built like a tank and is just now showing character like none of my other jackets. My daughter just came back from Beijing. Her mother is Chinese and she always wanted to visit.. they spent some time in Japan too.

 

[jeepTj98]

I think I'll just get an A2 from cockpitusa. I'm not much of a stickler for historical accuracy. And don't feel like paying an arm and a leg either! The Real McCoys? Real Expensive!

Yeah I personally think that these jackets are overpriced.. I would never spend $1500 and more for a jacket. I think this is a great place to buy a jacket. I got my lost worlds a2 for $300 and it was practically new. Isn’t cockpitusa pretty darn accurate?

 

[jeepTj98]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is VLJ? First I'm hearing of that.

That’s interesting because I am just now really getting into them.. I’ve always loved good leather jackets but never the a2.. it’s funny how our interests change once we hit 50 years old lol