Worth a look...BBC4 Mods and Rockers

[rocketeer]

Watched it Enjoyed the program archive footage and interviews and memories of the old timers, but I wished they had kept all the modern day social historians for another show.
I did notice that when talking about hangouts it was pronounced caff by the old rockers and cafey by the historians. I thought this may have been just a London thing but the Northern Rocker also pronounces it CaFFFF

 

[Monitor]

Any way a non British Isles folk can see the documentary? BBC iPlayer doesn't seem to want to start downloading the video...

 

[rocketeer]

Any way a non British Isles folk can see the documentary? BBC iPlayer doesn't seem to want to start downloading the video...

Is your country banned from viewing BBC content? Other than that I would not know unless your settings disable it[huh]

 

[Sloan1874]

Try an IP concealer. I use one to watch US programming

 

[Monitor]

Nah, it appears that one can only watch BBC programmes if one is inside the UK so tough luck for the rest of us. Though I see that so far, each of these documentaries got shared elsewhere so as I'm afraid I am going to have to resort to theft once this episode appears, as I genuinely am interested in it.

Sloan: Forgot about those! Will give it a try. Thank you kindly!

 

[zhz]

You can use an UK proxy, so the BBC server would think you are in UK. Or, I will put it online for you guys to download after I downloaded it...

Nah, it appears that one can only watch BBC programmes if one is inside the UK so tough luck for the rest of us. Though I see that so far, each of these documentaries got shared elsewhere so as I'm afraid I am going to have to resort to theft once this episode appears, as I genuinely am interested in it.

Sloan: Forgot about those! Will give it a try. Thank you kindly!

 

[Edward]

BBC content is onloy available to persons in the UK. It's a bit of protectionism of their IP as much as anythin,g bearing in mind how much of Auntie's stuff is sold across the world. Nobody would be interested in buying if all their target market had already seen it online, for free... Technically speaking, using a proxy or copying and reposting is unlawful, so I'd be wary of advocating such moves too openly.

As stated, we did not have any of the rivalry here in the States. On the other hand, I have attended several Mods & Rockers reunions in Denver, very popular, no fights, just some good natured ribbing about which is the best form of transportation. One of the riders let me take his Lambretta for a spin, I liked it a lot. I thought it would be fun to get a Vespa, then have a T-shirt made up stating, I would rather ride my Vespa, then push my Harley!

lol Yeah.... Over here they're known in some circles as Harley-able-to. I have the soul of a rockert - never could stand the Mod thing - but that said I find scooters intriguing. The bikes I favour (Royal Enfield Bullet 350, for instance) are small and efficient... the 'massive engine but no real go' of most Harleys doesn't appeal. I've got no interest in engine size for its own sake. Scooters fit into that same 'small and efficient' camp. Were I to buy one, I'd likely end up looking at one of those lovely Aprillas that have such great, swooping, deco lines. This intrigues me too, though I can't find any spec details on it:

Was rather entertaining. A lot of Perfectos on show.

Most likely Lewis Lightenings and the likes... There were also plenty of cheaper copies (a lot of them, I gather, in pvc...!).

A good programme, well produced. Nice to see Lewis Leathers given airtime, makes me want to head to their shop and see some of their "historic" jackets on display. Didn't spot the Perfectos if you mean the jackets, don't think any Beitish rockers would have worn them or indeed be able to buy them over here at that time. They were worn by some punks copying The Ramones etc but we still preferred to get a Lewis Leathers jacket. Also saw some Irvin type shearling jackets, most likely from Pride and Clarke or similar but maybe there were some original Irvins and even b3's being worn.

Lewis were definitely big on the punk scene of the time. A lot of folks now (especially in the US) remember Sid Vicious (posthumously an icon far in excess of his actual relevance, musically - though he did deliver the definitive reading of My Way in the eyes of no less than lyricist Paul Anka) in the Perfecto, aping his hero DeeDee Ramone, but that jacket was, as memory serves, bought on the ill-fated US tour of early 78. He far more often wore a Lewis Dominator. That more "skinny Highwayman" type seems to have been at least as popular as the Lancer front among the later punks (the original wave of English punks didn't much go in for leather jackets - that seems to have been a later thing, amped up by the press... at least if you listen to Lydon, anyhow!), based on the hundreds if not thousands of photos I've looked at of that scene. I know the Lewis Leathers name carried a bit of a cachet on that scene, though I suspect it's also because plenty of Sixties originals were availabled cheap, used, by the late 70s. Of course, there was definitely a Schott / Buco/ et cetera influence going on there.... Lewis certainly put their own spin on the designs (little details like pocket arrangement, waist fastening designs, and that extra zipped pocket on the left forearm that they brought in in the early 60s), but I doubt anyone could argue with a straight face that they'd not been influenced by the older American designs.

Inexperienced eyes on my part, I was talking more about the style than anything. I noticed the Irvin-types too. Wouldn't want to be wearing one of those if I came off a bike!

Hell, no. You'd probably come off better wearing an MA1.

The price of Lewis Leather increased very fast, I bought a 391 early last year for 650 pounds, and the price is 742 for UK customer now...
However, the leather is very good, I think they import leather from Japan now.

Yeah, they've gone up quite a lot. When I first looked at them back in the 90s they were in the region of £400, which seemed astronomical at the time (Aero and Eastman in those days were looking £300 for an A2). They did seem to shoot up significantly after they closed for a few years and then came back under current ownership. For a while, they were pretty much level with the Aero, ELC, et al, though they've gone up a bit again (ELMC are about the same pricing now, mind). They must be able to sell them at that price, though, or they'd soon drop the price or go out of business.... They do have a lot of advantages. They do what they do well, they have a certain cachet in the name (I don't think there are any of their contemporaries on the British bike leathers scene still going - at least not producing the sort of jackets they did in the Sixties anyhow), and there isn't much competition for them in terms of doing high quality repros of those very British, very 1960s style jackets. I can see part of me being tempted if they ever went back and did an original 56 spec version of the Bronx (though I'd probably lose the belt). Of the later designs, the practicality of the double-track Bronx is attractive; I've seen that on modern jackets, but I think Lewis were the first to do it? I quite like the idea of having that on a Perfecto style...

 

[GHT]

Looking forward to watching it. I was in Margate for the Bank holiday bike run yesterday - great atmosphere. Full of ageing Mods and Rockers as well as younger bikers.

You should get yourself along to Ryde Esplanade, Isle of Wight, just off the pier, over the weekend of the August bank holiday. 5,000 mods on scooters, wing mirrors, headlights, parkas, The Who, (insignia, not the band) The two stroke engines make a combined sound akin to a hornets nest.
You are right about aggression though, you get none. A balding Mod with a pot belly somehow doesn't have the same menace.

 

[Edward]

A balding Mod with a pot belly somehow doesn't have the same menace.

lol

I've probably said itg elsewhere on TFL before.... Mod doesn't age well. At the Goodwood Revival this year, I noticed all the rockers were probably about the right age to have been there, done that the first time around, but the Mods were primarily much younger. On the flipside, that says the latter were better at recruiting new blood, maybe because a hairdryer is cheaper to buy and run and a real motorcycle , likely also because there have been several big revivals in the mod thing, whereas the rocker subculture carried on in its own thing, never quite going mainstream.

I'm always amused by mod revivalism, though. The Rocker movement was always about looking back, having been built up in no small part around older bikes (not everyone could afford a new bike in the early Sixties, same as now) and older music... Rockers were still listening to Eddie Cochran et al, as well as homegrown stuff like Vince Taylor and his Playboys (comes as a surprise to many, but Brand New Cadillac was, in fact, as English as record as its subject was American). Mods, on the other hand, were fashion forward: all about now, cutting edge, the next thing, being super-up-to-date.... seems ironic that this would later become a retro fashion in itself.

 

[bn1966]

Have booked my accommodation for the Isle Of Wight, will need some time to shine up the lights & mirrors. Don't know about any rioting but I might manage a cream tea.

 

[GHT]

Mod doesn't age well. At the Goodwood Revival this year, I noticed all the rockers were probably about the right age to have been there, done that the first time around, but the Mods were primarily much younger.

Forgive the threadjack, I have never done the Goodwood Revival. Had an email from them, someone saw my classic car, they told someone else and so on and so on. The powers that be at Goodwood have been in touch. Would I be interested in 'taxi-ing' VIP's around the showground.
My wife & I get free admission, free parking for our camper van and all meals plus entrance into the live entertainments. At least I think that's the deal.

I would appreciate your thoughts, you can PM me if you like, don't want to highjack the thread anymore.

 

[bn1966]

1st picture: Shanklin seafront 2013




2nd: My Vespa loaded prior to leaving IOW 2013 (Everything bar the kitchen sink)...we are the Mods!

 

[Sloan1874]

Just caught the first 10 mins that I missed - interesting interview with Lewis Leather guy: their classic 60s design was based on a 30s flying jacket, with the extra detail of a leather or plastic-coated belt buckle, so it didn't scratch your petrol tank. It was the old rocker's point about the danger of covering your jacket with studs that caught my interest though: apparently, if you came off your bike and slid along the road, they would become red hot and leave the wearer looking as if somebody had been stubbing out ciggies on them.

 

[Stearmen]

Here is part one, looks like there are 3! [video=youtube;sbNf6UnvY6A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbNf6UnvY6A[/video]

 

[havocpaul]

Mod has had several revivals, most notably in the immediate post-punk days obviously fuelled by The Jam but it was mostly just the fashion and hardly any scooters. Later still there were scooter gangs in the North and bands such as Stone Roses came from that scene. Rockers seem to have always been around and it appears to be more about the bikes than any trend or style. All the early punk bands I knew and saw seemed to wear Lewis Leathers jackets, yes, they were fairly cheap second-hand from Kensington Market, Soho Market, Camden etc. I had a red one myself, then got a Lightning but my favourite jacket was a black leather bike jacket with white lapels (Johnny Thunders famously wore one) which I picked up down the Kings Rd in 1977 for £20 new, don't think it was by a known maker but a few of the bands also got one (Only Ones, Squeeze, Jimmy Pursey), and I wish I could get it back but of course it wouldn't fit now! Perfectos were expensive in comparison, Sid got one when they went to the States as he was copying his idols The Ramones, I didn't like the Perfecto because the belt buckle would scratch your guitar and also smack you in the b**** if you moved fast! After 1979 I had moved on to wearing original A-2's thanks to Ken Calder's Thrift Shop in Battersea and the biker jackets moved on.

 

[rocketeer]

One thing you need to watch when buying a secondhand Lewis jacket is many were made to measure their original customers so may not fit the average figure. I had one that must have been ordered by a body builder as it was "Wide and the shoulder and narrow at the hip" may have belonged to Big Bad John.

 

[havocpaul]

very true, and because they were originally made for bike riding they will fit very snug, gone are the days of them being easily available in second-hand stores to try on. The guy Hi-Star has a stall at Portobello although I haven't been to it, he specializes in Lewis Leathers second-hand.

 

[Edward]

Forgive the threadjack, I have never done the Goodwood Revival. Had an email from them, someone saw my classic car, they told someone else and so on and so on. The powers that be at Goodwood have been in touch. Would I be interested in 'taxi-ing' VIP's around the showground.
My wife & I get free admission, free parking for our camper van and all meals plus entrance into the live entertainments. At least I think that's the deal.

I would appreciate your thoughts, you can PM me if you like, don't want to highjack the thread anymore.

I'll PM you in a second (but in short... go for it!).

Mod has had several revivals, most notably in the immediate post-punk days obviously fuelled by The Jam but it was mostly just the fashion and hardly any scooters.

Ah, the Jam.... if only Paul Weller hadn't had an evil twin who pretended to be him and made a couple of dodgy political comments in 77 and 79, before murdering the real Paul, precipitating the end of the Jam and masquerading as him through the awful Style Council and truly abominable solo career, representing everything the Jam railed against.....

All the early punk bands I knew and saw seemed to wear Lewis Leathers jackets, yes, they were fairly cheap second-hand from Kensington Market, Soho Market, Camden etc. I had a red one myself, then got a Lightning but my favourite jacket was a black leather bike jacket with white lapels (Johnny Thunders famously wore one) which I picked up down the Kings Rd in 1977 for £20 new, don't think it was by a known maker but a few of the bands also got one (Only Ones, Squeeze, Jimmy Pursey), and I wish I could get it back but of course it wouldn't fit now!

Sometimes I wish I could have my first one back too.... Santa paid £72 for it in Bobby Lyttle's Mens Outfitters in Larne in December 1990.... I loved that jacket to death, wore it two years them sold it on for £35.... my second Perfecto style was bought in 1994, in a charity shop for a tenner. By then I wanted to be Joey Ramone (the first one was inspired by Alice Cooper....). These days it's more Brando. I've certainly got his physique (alas it's just from his run as Vito Corleone rather than Johnny Strabler!). This second one differed in that it had two side-strap buckles, one each side, similar size to the Perfecto ones, though. I wore that jacket for a fair few years, then it became a costume piece (first a Scorpions jacket from when my Rocky Horror crew did a take-off of Grease, then the sleeves were removed and it became an Eddie jacket based on the 2006/7 stage show production of Rocky Horror.... Number three was again a cheapy - it's now sprayed up as a Johnny Strabler BRMC jacket (photos on here somewhere....). I've got an Aero one which is beautiful, though alas too tight in the waist for me, so it's gonig to be sold on soon. Thinking of picking up either a Schott or another decent cheapy for kicking about in.... Probably misplaced nostalgia, but I have a lot of love for this particular style in and around the tonne price mark. Some surprisingly well put together jackets available if you're careful and don't mind chunky, aluminium YKK zips (never had one fail me).

Perfectos were expensive in comparison,

How times have changed!!

Sid got one when they went to the States as he was copying his idols The Ramones,

On that note.... have you seen the gallery Lewis Leathers have up on their sites now? Some cracking shots of Rotten, Uncle Joe, Bernie Rhodes and many others in their LLs. The one that surprised me, though, was Joey Ramone! Da Brudders became synonymous with Schott Perfectoes by the late 70s, but in the early days they varied a lot (Tommy wore a jean jacket style in black leather, Joey had one that looked like a Lewis Dominator type but with a big early 70s disco collar...). Not sure when the photos were taken of Joey in his Bronx (of course!), though they don't look like much later than 1980. I was well aware of all the others who wore 'em, but that came as a surprise!

They've yet to add Imelda May to their gallery, though I'm sure that will come. The cover of her latest album, Tribal, features her wearing a Lewis Lightening... Better photo of it than the album here:

The video for the song Tribal was filmed at the Ace, too.

[/quote]I didn't like the Perfecto because the belt buckle would scratch your guitar and also smack you in the b**** if you moved fast! [/QUOTE]

Ha! I never had that problem with them, though I have always avoided wearing a guitar and a Perfecto at the same time (mind, I was more concerned about scratching from the zips, both on the sleeves and on the body) than the buckle. Aesthetically I do prefer the Schott buckle look, though Lewis' approach with the Bronx (and others), giving it a leather-covered buckle to stop the tank getting scratched, was a good one. One big difference between the more American style of the Perfecto and the Brit look... Of course the Yanks who opted for Perfectos seem to have favoured bikes with a more upright sitting position, as distinct from the monkey-crouch over the tank that the afe racers came to favour. Silvermans have gone another route - they have a nice looking Perfecto model or two in their GTH (house brand) range that I intend to check out. They recently introduced one that's exactly like their Perfecto style save for the lack of a belt, marketing that as a feature to avoid tank-scratches... (reminds me of the old, apochrphal "...and the Russians used a pencil" story).

very true, and because they were originally made for bike riding they will fit very snug, gone are the days of them being easily available in second-hand stores to try on. The guy Hi-Star has a stall at Portobello although I haven't been to it, he specializes in Lewis Leathers second-hand.

I remember Hi Star having a cracking stall in Camden Stables market back around 99-04. Sadly that went when the market was first majorly redeveloped from 04 onwards and they ripped the soul out of it.... I bought some patches from them at one point. Glad they are still around. They were good folks to deal with. I used to go through all their leathers looking for the "right" Frank-n-Furter jacket.... back then £200 seemed like too much to spend, though. If only I'd known!

 

[rocketeer]

I much prefer the British Lancer style from the 1960/70s, the early plain ones without the diamond padding on the shoulders to the Brando/Perfecto jackets. Also not a fan of engineer boots or 5 inch turnups on jeans. Old fashioned bike boots or riding boots for me, and not all Rockers wore white socks or scarves with them, and the Jet type open face lid was more popular than the pudding basin helmet though the latter was preferred by professional racers such as Mike Hailwood well into the 1960s and in some cases, early 1970s.

Nigel at Hi Star still sells gear at autojumbles/swapmeets though it appears to be a lot of fashionista's that buy them as well.

 

[IXL]

Here is part one, looks like there are 3! [video=youtube;sbNf6UnvY6A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbNf6UnvY6A[/video]

While this is a good documentary, I don't believe it is the same one referenced by the OP.