Why did you sell your nearly new aero leather jacket(s)?

[KBlake]

No I’m not suggesting Italians can’t be stylish. I said that well dressed Italians have always pulled most strongly from a British influence (since the 1700s) in response to the suggestion that there’s no British style. Even Sicilian village wear came from this British influence.

What I did say is that the average Italian is pretty badly dressed, as is the average Frenchman, Englishman, or American. Because the other guy’s suggestion was “Italians know best therefore lamb skin is best”—when the reality is everyone except TFL types primarily has lamb skin. (I’m not even anti lamb skin!)

The “Made in Italy” (itself a marketing term) stuff is largely fraudulent anyway. It’s usually either made outside and gets an Italy label stitched on in final packaging there or it’s made in giant workshops of Chinese laborers, while the brands peddle an image of their local craft and so on.

“All major fashion designers are Italian” is has never been the case. Even as couture goes it’s been mainly a French endeavor. Yes, Italians got more involved since the 60s but not more so than the Americans or the English or in more recent years the Japanese.

The comparison of fabric to steel is doesn’t land. Fabric isn’t a raw material; it essentially tells you what the garment is and how it’ll drape. Half the art of tailoring is the selection of fabric, iron work, etc. And I gave you other examples as well of how Italian menswear directly grew out of British menswear.

I’m not going to continue arguing this, because I don’t care, but your arguments leave a lot to be desired, most of all consistency.

 

[KBlake]

Wow, this is an awful lot of historical ambiguity. What era are you discussing and how far back to you care to trace the origins of fashion? I lived for a number of years in Italy and my impression was always that Italian fashion is distinctly different from British fashion.

The claim that "Sicilian village wear came from this British influence..." is incredible to me. I'm not even sure what it means. There is significant Italian folk fashion traditions in most areas of Italy and they have absolutely nothing to do with the UK. I'm so surprised anyone would make such a claim that I have to suspect I don't understand what exactly is being said.

As for "the average Italian is pretty badly dressed..." that's totally subjective.

I don't know much about high fashion but certainly a LOT of the major fashion brands are Italian. A disproportionate number and enough to lend validity to it as a counter-argument to your position, which seems to be something like "Italians don't know anything about fashion and stole all their ideas from the Brits." Sorry if that's not your position but that's what it sounds like.

You have always struck me as far more reasonable than this, so I'm hoping to get some clarity from you because these remarks just don't hold water imo.

This.