Which religious group?

[Curt Chiarelli]

Essentially, the Lutheran faith is little more than Catholic Lite. Lutheranism certainly betrays its direct lineage from Catholicism in several significant ways. However, one of the main branches of Lutheranism is the notorious Missouri Synod, renowned for its harsh disciplinary code. My grandmother on the German side of the clan used to tell me some real horror stories!

 

[Weston]

Curt, the Lutheran church may SEEM to be Catholicism "lite" as you put it now, but when Martin Luther seperated from Roman Catholicism, it was as radical as can be – especially placing (gasp) scripture into the hands of the people, to read in their own language! The two may seem similar NOW, but I can assure you it's largely because Roman Catholicism has slowly followed some of Lutheran innovation.

fftopic: And I don't mean to yell, but for the life of me I can't figure out italics. Ahh the irony of a board about the 30s-50's that requires advanced computer knowledge! I always thought all our messages should be in a typewriter font! LOL

 

[pretty faythe]

Need "other"

Should really be getting ready for work, but have become addicted to this site. There really should have been an "other". I'm with dixon cannon, Religious Science. And I also didnt see just a plain ol' Christian for those who are religious but dont confirm their Christianality.

 

[Curt Chiarelli]

Curt, the Lutheran church may SEEM to be Catholicism "lite" as you put it now, but when Martin Luther seperated from Roman Catholicism, it was as radical as can be – especially placing (gasp) scripture into the hands of the people, to read in their own language! The two may seem similar NOW, but I can assure you it's largely because Roman Catholicism has slowly followed some of Lutheran innovation.

fftopic: And I don't mean to yell, but for the life of me I can't figure out italics. Ahh the irony of a board about the 30s-50's that requires advanced computer knowledge! I always thought all our messages should be in a typewriter font! LOL

Yes, I know what kind of shockwave Martin Luther's "95 Theses" caused in 1517- it was quite a revolutionary break with papal doctrine in the 16th century - but I was speaking from the perspective of someone who had been indoctrinated into that particular faith during the last quarter of the 20th.

My mother was of German extraction and a Lutheran, while my father, who was Sicilian, was a lapsed Catholic. As you can probably guess, in this aspect my mother was largely influential in my upbringing. However, through my father's side of the family I was also exposed to Catholicism. It gave me a unique insight into both churches. Liturgically speaking, the gulf that separates them is hardly as wide now, four centuries later.

Well, it was all for naught anyway: I was a confirmed agnostic by the age of 12. Regardless of my firm convictions, I was forced into being confirmed in the Lutheran church 2 years later. And do you know what the punchline is? I had the highest marks in my confirmation class.

P.S. As for italicising a word, just roll your mouse over the word to highlight it, then click the italics button (third one from the left) in the upper lefthand corner of the toolbar.

 

[GoldLeaf]

I can't vote, I am too new yet.

I am an ELCA Lutheran. It may be liberal, but it suits me just fine Luther opened the door for me to have a direct relationship with God, and that is the most important thing for me. That relationship saved my life as a young, troubled teen. I respect the Missouri Synod folks, and think a more strict adherance is admirable in this modern age in many ways.

However the main rub for me there is that they don't let women be ordained. For 16 years I thought I had a calling to be an ordained minister. A recent diagnosis has made that a near impossibility for me. However, I still have a hard time with a branch of my faith that would deny me the opportunity to share my talents in the way that I belive God has called me to.

I am sorry that some folks don't view my faith is being a real "Lutheran" anymore. I thought I had done Luther justice with my faith and my life. ::shrug:: I will try not to judge you if you try not to judge me

 

[Weston]

Sorry to hear of the diagnosis – not too late to jump the fence to the Nazarene church...we've ordained women since we were founded (1905). Just an FYI from a guy in Seminary with a lotta loans.

(And thanks for the info Curt - mastering all these message boards has really confused my brain.)

 

[BegintheBeguine]

N.B.

Weston, ELCA ordains women; Missouri Synod does not.

 

[John in Covina]

Bum Rap.

I waited a while to come back to this thread which was nearly closed after some people got really upset about some things I wrote.

I wanted to just say a thing or two about people and what they are looking for in religion.

We have two parts of society, the religious and the non religious. The non religious is usually called secular society. Both sides will have what values they have and where those values originate. Many denominations run the gamat from a strong belief in the inerrancy of Scripture to it is all fairey tales and stories without basis in fact. Strong / medium / light belief.

As you move from Strong to Medium and Light in belief the values tend to have a greater influence from the secular world. Along with this comes division and suspiscion, it is the way it is, and we find there is a "oh, you think you are better than us" attitude that creeps into the equation. (It also tends to come up with the Vegan versus meat eaters groups, too.)

Fundimentalist groups are seen as extreme by others where as the fundimantalists see the others as in error and maybe weak in their approach to their religion.

What does come out is that I feel that my beliefs have been ridiculed, the same as others. I would like to defend the Lutheran Church and the Missouri Synod as it has been defended before with Scripture as a basis for belief, BUT this was seen as devisive and taken as an affront to others.

SO, from here on out, I would suggest we all consider to not put the religion of others in a bad light, because there is no way to do so with out offending some ones sensibilities.

 

[Rooster]

Just came across this. I'm surprised at the large number of anti religious folks here. Not passing judgement, just surprised.
White toast Methodist here. Raised in the Methodist church. Was diverted to life's other intrests at about age 19 or so. In the past three or four years I've started going back to church again. I must say it was difficult to find a church that wasn't political....another surprise.
I've found that the older I've become the closer to God I've become. Definately no bible thumpin' holy roller, but closer to God none the less.

 

[Sin Khan]

It takes some searching, but you will find it (The Truth)

Catholic here, but sadly most of my family has moved away from Catholicism. They are still Christian, it is just that the Roman Catholic Church has turned them sour. Many scandals on high levels, priests who couldn’t inspire anyone it seems, politics gone mad within the church, ect ect.

However, the main reason that they have remained Christian is that they found books that explained the Bible better than it was explained to them before. They “understand” now things that they didn’t understand before because they have read more and have listen to others explain their views. It takes a certain level of maturity to seek out these things and they were all in their 30’s before doing so. As well, they all have families of their own now and children, which I feel draws you closer to the need to explore these matters.

The most drastic case of a change in religion is that of my brother in law. He was a staunch atheist before meeting my sister when he was in his 20’s. Now he is a staunch non-denominational Christian. I have talked with him some about the drastic change and I will list here the books that basically changed my families life in regards to religion. I hope that it may help some of you in your own searching as well.

“More than a Carpenter” This is a small book that talks about Christ and for my brother in law it was the begging in of his turn around which is why he bought me a copy.

“The New American Bible Catholic Edition” This book really helped my mother and I a lot. We grew up with a catholic bible that we really couldn’t understand at all. Because so, we never read it at all. Then one day I discovered this new edition and started reading it and it just came alive. I could actually understand everything that was written because it was more like a story. I read a lot more of the bible now because they seem more like stories now instead of one line complexities. The book flows now to me instead of floating around, hanging on every line while I decipher them.

As well, my family went to many different churches and faiths all trying to find out the truth as they saw it and this opened their eyes a great deal to the vastness of religious ideas. Some priests and preachers explained things very well, while others did so very poorly. Hearing the same ideas expressed differently by different faiths can be a great eye opener.

I hope that those of you who haven’t yet found out what you believe, or perhaps need more convincing find the truth that you seek. Yet, in regards to my family, the words, “Seek and you shall find” have always held true. If you really want to be convinced that God exists to you then all you have to do is spend more time seeking the truth, and if the truth is what you really want to find then you will find it. What I do not ever recommend is that you simply constrict yourself to denial and stop your searching.

I would say good luck, but in this regard, luck has nothing to do with it, so I will say, I wish you well in your search for the truth.

 

[Foofoogal]

If you want to believe something is truly real, you have to learn about it from an authority or discover it yourself.

I think the discovering it for myself when going thru stuff has cinched it for me.
When your back is against the wall at 2:00 in the morning and you are going thru hell (or whatever you choose to call it and this super duper friend that sticks closer than a brother comes on the scene) and proves to be extremely loyal throughout your life then you tend to try your best to be extremely loyal back.
Since a few asked or stated they like to see why people come to the conclusions I see it totally as a football or chess game.

It is a fixed fight you see.
God vs the enemy!
One has to decide which side they are on and at that point sell out to become a cheerleader for that side.
So they at that point say:Go God, Go! or the other.
Ever been on a losing team before. It is crummy and you feel crummy.
Once you are on the winning team and know it you scream even louder.
Relationship, relationship. After you know and are close to your best friend and really, really know them you will not ever believe anyone trying to knock them in any shape, form or fashion. You are totally convinced by their loyalty and their power and of course their Glory. Once you see the Glory you are done.

 

[Bebop]

I find it refreshing to see that the poll here reflects what I have always thought of as the truth about most of society. I believe many people out in public don't want to argue about spirits and Gods and worst of all alienate people that are friends, co-workers or loved ones by admitting they don't believe in God so they tell you what you want to hear or respond the way they have been trained. Once you get them alone and have a conversation they start asking questions and using logic and they admit that they don't really believe. I would normally think they are telling me only what I want to hear but polls like this say differently. For a while there, as an Atheist, I believed I was the only Atheist in the room. Then I realized that there were many people in that room that thought they were the only Atheist also.

 

[thunderw21]

I'm an Evangelical Christian AKA fundamentalist Christian.

I've seen enough darkness and evil in this world to know there must be good to counterbalance it.

 

[Foofoogal]

Bebop, I disagree with your summary of the poll. I have to say this gingerly but I believe it is more a mirror of the FL and the vintage scene than joe public at large.
I am just stating my opinion. [huh] Selling vintage I have understood the whole vintage clothing scene revival and such if you may started about the 1980s with the people not in the mainstream.
Sandy

 

[Bebop]

Bebop, I disagree with your summary of the poll. I have to say this gingerly but I believe it is more a mirror of the FL and the vintage scene than joe public at large.
I am just stating my opinion. [huh] Selling vintage I have understood the whole vintage clothing scene revival and such if you may started about the 1980s with the people not in the mainstream.
Sandy

You are 100% correct about the poll. It does reflect only the people on this FL which is Joe public. If people into the golden era, "the way things used to be" and grampas values are mostly non-believers and Atheists when they don't have to admit it face to face, it says a lot about how dishonest Joe public can be (in public) and the poll here can not be dismissed that easily. I suppose it also depends on where it is that you talk to people. Traveling around the country does help get a more varied census. Different regions of the country have varying firmness in their beliefs.

I can only compare side by side what this poll reflects and what my own experience reflects and they both come up at about the same place as the poll does. I realize that "vintage" is sometimes just a hip thing for society, vintage thinking or not, to latch onto. Maybe science and fact has become a more credible and reasonable aspect of life everywhere, from the FL to the everyday Joe. [huh]

 

[Mr. Lucky]

Religions, by definition and intent, are not a bad thing. God, or the idea of God, is not a bad thing either. I have read of, extensively, and experienced, directly, a bevy of dogmas and philosophies. From William James to Buddha; from the Koran to the Torah; King James to the Good News; I've done some investigation and most of that which I have read I agree with. But I do take exception to one major...flaw: the conviction that only one of them is right, and the exclusion that such a determination brings. The contradiction that each belief, the 'gospel' (good news) is to be spread; but those that it is being spread to are in peril simply because they don't believe that what they are hearing really is 'good news'! Good news to one is bad news to another - that's just the way it is. And, thusly, absolutism and exclusion is born.

And THAT is where I take exception. I am ALL for faith and belief in something greater than ourselves and that the universe is based in mystery. And in mystery, that's where in find my faith. I don't want all the answers. I don't want absolutes. I don't want easy outs. I want to relish in my journey and know, in my heart, that this life, right here, can be either heaven or hell - but that choice lies with me and the manner in which I choose to interpret the 'good news' or the 'bad news'. That is 'Free Will', a gift that I cherish. I know what the 'right' thing to do is and I choose to do it, or not, not out of fear of punishment - here or somewhere else - but simply because it is the right thing to do. And when I don't do the right thing, the punishment is the pain in my heart from the knowledge of what i have done and my willingness to do better, to try harder, the next time around. Some say - "God either is, or he isn't!" Well, I believe he IS and I ask for his help ALL the time. Isn't that enough?

Now, I shall respect what another chooses to believe and God bless you for it. But please afford me the same. Just because I don't go to church or wear the star of David or shun pork chops and prayer many times a day, formally, doesn't mean I don't 'believe'. I just believe in my OWN way. So, please let me.

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[Foofoogal]

May be totally ridiculous but I would like to see a scientific study done on why people believe more that what or who. A gene mentioned somewhere would be a start I think.
I would think genetics could easily play a huge role but more than likely experiences.
Take for instance Oklahoma which is known in some circles as not only the Bible belt but the Buckle of the Bible belt.
Could this be because of the history of the area? I imagine the Dust Bowl experience would greatly affect a person. During the turn of the century it was extremely common for people to lose loved ones including many children. One suddenly grasped the idea or desperate hope that there had to be something larger than the neighbors. I think this is what led to the great revivals at the time. Very vintage indeed. Genetics maybe but probably more that grandpa that went thru this told his children and so on about the miracles they experienced.
Wasn't it interesting that people suddenly found God when 911 happened?
When Katrina hit it was a perfect example of the bad but also sterling moments in the good that came out of many, many people across all lines.
I have always seen belief or unbelief in God a bit like sex and truly don't want to offend people but it is like a woman talking about a beyond belief honeymoon night when she has never had one. No way anyone on the face of the earth is going to be able to explain it to her fully and if their honeymoon night was not exactly great this also will color the picture. Ok. I am done now.

If I have gone off track feel free to delete me.

 

[zaika]

Religion!! Whelp...I was raised 'non-denominational' evangelical. Very strict. Then in high school, and esp after my mom died, I just didn't like church anymore and felt like I had outgrown it. Spent a few years learning about paganism and Buddhism, eventually leaning towards Wicca.
Then I visited an Eastern Orthodox Christian church as a part of my Russian studies in college...and I just continued down that path. I love the Eastern mindset of the Church, the Buddhist-like aesthetics, and the mystical...almost pagan (though don't tell any other Orthodox Christian i said this) aspects. I still struggle with God and what it means to be a Christian...or just a woman of faith in general. But I think that's what being religious is all about...struggling with what truth is for yourself. And, maybe it's because God was drilled into me from such a young age, or maybe it's human nature to want to seek a god, but...I can't NOT believe that God (whoever he/she or whatever it is) exists.
If you want a cocktail recipe, I'd say I'm 50% Christian, 25% Pagan, 10% Rebel Without a Cause and 5% Buddhist. Woo!

 

[K.D. Lightner]

Foofoogal --

There is a book out on that subject, called The God Gene, written by Drean H. Hamer, who is a geneticist. The book is now in paperback.

I have read parts of it, plan to finish it soon. It certainly explains some things to me, such as why I have always been an agnostic.

karol

 

[Foofoogal]

I am serious when I think science really needs to take a good look at it all. I am very religious as one can see and I think endorphins even come into play. I know there are some hard studies on belief and healing.
I was healed of Graves disease I believe supernaturally. I have seen enough miracles personally in my life that I am totally convinced. With a huge family I have seen tons of real miracles.