Thoughts about Japanese brands

[Winthorpe]

IH's denim jackets receive positive attention here. Iron Heart does not make leather jackets. Instead, IH partners with a controversial leather jacket manufacturer that many here disfavor.

That is not true for all their leather jackets. IH also partners with Four Speed leathers, a Japanese manufacturer. The models are IHJ-35 and IHJ-54 (and there are more I believe).

I went to IH Hachioji (about 30 minutes from Tokyo if you take the fastest train) this June and tried on the IHJ-35. They had sizes up to XXXL and I felt were a better fit for Western builds than most of the other Japanese jackets I tried on. For me personally however they were too wide in the shoulders (and a bit too short).

As far as Japanese high-end jackets go I thought they were a good deal too (when compared to The Real McCoy’s J-100, for instance, or what leather jackets go for on Four Speed’s website).

 

[red devil]

That is not true for all their leather jackets. IH also partners with Four Speed leathers, a Japanese manufacturer. The models are IHJ-35 and IHJ-54 (and there are more I believe).

I went to IH Hachioji (about 30 minutes from Tokyo if you take the fastest train) this June and tried on the IHJ-35. They had sizes up to XXXL and I felt were a better fit for Western builds than most of the other Japanese jackets I tried on. For me personally however they were too wide in the shoulders (and a bit too short).

As far as Japanese high-end jackets go I thought they were a good deal too (when compared to The Real McCoy’s J-100, for instance, or what leather jackets go for on Four Speed’s website).

This again
Four Speed leathers is a man on his own working in his shop, very open to cutomise the jacket any way you would want

 

[breezer]

IH's denim jackets receive positive attention here. Iron Heart does not make leather jackets. Instead, IH partners with a controversial leather jacket manufacturer that many here disfavor.



I guess I am "astonishing." Thank you for the kind words.

Place a Samurai, Flat Head/Glory Park, Freewheelers, Real McCoys or Iron Heart flannel next to a £70 flannel -- the difference in quality and fabric is night and day.

Mhnnn.....I guess you have deeper pockets than me. Of course I am partial to the good Japanese stuff.....my RMC N1 is my pride and joy.....but I am not convinced a garments perceived quality is the most important thing. Its how it looks that is as important. IH flannels certainly look good, but then so do may other cheaper brands. I have a heavyweight Vans flannel I bought from TK Max for £40.......it looks and feels great and I am sure it will last for many years. On the flip-side I have a FlatHead flannel that is already showing a few issues after minimal wear and only a couple of washes..... I guess the point I am trying to make is that we all have stuff we love, but it doesn't necessarily have to be the expensive Japanese stuff.

 

[ton312]

Indeed. The durability argument can be pretty thin. I love my IH 634's. The denim is divine. But the button holes are completely trashed. Happened in relatively short order. Conversely my unbranded 21oz straights show no symptoms of fatigue at the button hole and have been worn much more harshly and cost roughly 1/3rd as much as the IH equivalent. Then step it down again and at 10% the cost of the IH I have my favorite jeans, Levi's 517 jet black. Now the difference in denim quality is not hard to see between the Levi's and IH 634's but is the cost ratio on par with material/ construction specs? No, not in my opinion. Will I buy another pair of IH jeans? Absolutely.

 

[dannyk]

Indeed. The durability argument can be pretty thin. I love my IH 634's. The denim is divine. But the button holes are completely trashed. Happened in relatively short order. Conversely my unbranded 21oz straights show no symptoms of fatigue at the button hole and have been worn much more harshly and cost roughly 1/3rd as much as the IH equivalent. Then step it down again and at 10% the cost of the IH I have my favorite jeans, Levi's 517 jet black. Now the difference in denim quality is not hard to see between the Levi's and IH 634's but is the cost ratio on par with material/ construction specs? No, not in my opinion. Will I buy another pair of IH jeans? Absolutely.

Not to hijack this thread and go in an entirely different direction. But durability is a funny thing for us guys on this forum. We obsess and drool over (obviously not all of us but a good majority) super thick 4oz leathers. How a jacket will last forever. Or how thick and tough our jeans or denim jackets are. Yet some won’t wear them in the rain or snow. Lean against a brick wall, work in their yard, work on their vehicle, wear it to the bar for fear of spilling, put things in the wash and this list could go on and on. And I totally get it spending 1,000 plus on a jacket or 300 on jeans. It’s an investment! Of course you want them to last forever. On the other hand a lot of makers brag about their toughness and how you can do all these things. Most of the products are based on original workwear meant for exactly these activities. We’re a strange breed.

 

[Mich486]

I don’t think the things we discuss here are more durable than mid quality high street clothing (not H&M and Zara but more like Levi’s or Timberland to give an idea). At least not in my experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[breezer]

When it comes down to it - we buys these things because of the way they make us feel.....the look and quality of something is part of that.......as Joan Didion put it:

We tell ourselves stories in order to live.

 

[willyto]

Not to hijack this thread and go in an entirely different direction. But durability is a funny thing for us guys on this forum. We obsess and drool over (obviously not all of us but a good majority) super thick 4oz leathers. How a jacket will last forever. Or how thick and tough our jeans or denim jackets are. Yet some won’t wear them in the rain or snow. Lean against a brick wall, work in their yard, work on their vehicle, wear it to the bar for fear of spilling, put things in the wash and this list could go on and on. And I totally get it spending 1,000 plus on a jacket or 300 on jeans. It’s an investment! Of course you want them to last forever. On the other hand a lot of makers brag about their toughness and how you can do all these things. Most of the products are based on original workwear meant for exactly these activities. We’re a strange breed.

I have to admit that when I was told that leaning against a brick wall was a reason not to buy a jacket from someone I couldn't believe my eyes... that's next level obssession

 

[Flightengineer]

For the purpose of full disclosure, I've lived in Japan for over 20 years, I did my doctoral research here. I'm fluent in Japanese and have a Japanese wife and kids.

Japan has a never ending stream of data falsification problems. Off the top of my head, I can think of killer airbags, failing brakes, falsified checks on nuclear reactor critical components, falsified earthquake damper performance, substandard supplies of aircraft components, falsified accounting at several top Japanese brands, HIV tainted infusions in hospitals, TB epidemic, substandard bullet train components that failed, substandard foundations leading to new apartment buildings being demolished, falsified construction data in tunnels that collapsed, etc, etc, often on-going for decades without prosecution.

Trains here really are late as often as in Europe.

That's not to say Japan is 'bad', but it's not 'better' either.

I think that the Japanese are very good at hiding their skeletons, and working very hard to promote the image that they want you to buy into; it's almost a national duty.

These days most Japanese products are mass produced in other Asian countries, so quality is not especially great.

There are a small number of companies making relatively niche clothing. They are selling a fetishized image of Americana for other Japanese.

Likewise, many foreigners who visit Japan are already loaded up with 'Japan myths' and images, and when they come to Japan, not being able to speak or read Japanese fluently, they see what they want to see, and what Japan will let them see. It's all very superficial.

Japan benefitted massively from postwar US technology transfer that enabled it to produce uniforms and such for the US military in Korea and Vietnam. That's the main reason they were able to knock out great repro stuff- the original machines and know-how was already here.

In the same way that postwar US manufacturers used their machines to make civilian clothes after the war, the Japanese have worked out that they can make vintage civilian clothes with the original machines they were making military reproductions on.

I love BR flight jackets. But the whole 'American vintage' scene in Japan is kind of a circle-jerk of people who go on 5 day tour group trips to the US, and only see the highlights.

The same way people who visit Japan don't see the staggering number of kids in poverty, workplace bullying, crumbling schools, or offices that still function on fax machines as a norm.

Both sides are suffering delusions.

Thank you for this look inside Japan. I always thought that the relatively high quality of Japanese repro jackets or other products is part of they culture or may be philosophy accuracy and meticulousness very different from others. This is another planet ... I saw Japanese colleagues piloting they 737s and 747s in white gloves, there is no anywhere else. I'll pleased to visit Japan at the first opportunity.

 

[Blackadder]

Keep in mind that the original Real McCoy's leather jackets were made in New Zealand. It was a business decision to bring the production back to Japan and has little to do with quality. RMNZ continued to make lots of clothings for the Japanese market until the exchange rate makes it difficult to continue in such a scale. I doubt the Japanese has special skills or better techniques than the rest of the world. It all depends on the manufacturers' quality management. For example, White's and Wesco can likely produce boots with perfect stitching and perfectly matched heels but they just think it is too costly to do so.
I prefer Japanese products because their size fit me better. I don't care if they are not custom because often times even custom works don't fit on the first few try. It has to do with scale and proportionality. I have a shortened Lost Worlds leather jacket made for Japanese market length-wise it was ok but the width of the sleeves are completely off. My friend ordered a halfbelt from Aero and specifically asked them to slim down the sleeves. It wasn't slim enough and he sent it back to be altered. So I stay away from "custom work" unless I can go there to get measured like to a tailor.

 

[Superfluous]

The durability argument can be pretty thin.

Agreed, and I don't cite quality factors in relationship to durability. I have way, way too many clothes and, as a result, nothing I own gets tested or taxed from a durability standpoint. Why, then, do I focus on quality? Because I derive personal enjoyment from wearing quality garments, even if I will never need, or realize the objective benefits of, the additional quality, and even if a lessor quality garment would be more than adequate. I enjoy high quality clothing solely because it is high quality, and not because the additional quality translates to greater durability. I enjoy the superlative craftsmanship, engineering, and execution -- not to mention the wonderful fabrics. John Q. Public does not notice, nor care, but that's not the point. I notice and I care, and that's all that matters. A $60 flannel would serve my purposes -- e.g., keep me warm and be sufficiently durable -- but I would know that I am wearing a lessor quality garment. Therefore, I pay more for quality because I derive personal enjoyment from the better quality garments, and that alone justifies the delta in price.

When it comes down to it - we buys these things because of the way they make us feel.....the look and quality of something is part of that.

Exactly!

Now the difference in denim quality is not hard to see between the Levi's and IH 634's but is the cost ratio on par with material/ construction specs? No, not in my opinion. Will I buy another pair of IH jeans? Absolutely.

Exactly! We are talking about quality that far exceeds the point of diminishing returns. A $350 par of jeans is better quality than a $70 pair of jeans, but not five times better; and a $300 flannel is better quality than a $60 flannel, but not five times better. If one is focused on a linear quality to dollar, bang for your buck ratio, one will never patronize the highest quality garments because they invariably are far beyond the point of diminishing returns.

Of course, this is all subjective and product dependent. The cost/quality spectrum is quite broad, and where we ultimately end up depends on a myriad of factors.

 

[Superfluous]

It all depends on the manufacturers' quality management. For example, White's and Wesco can likely produce boots with perfect stitching and perfectly matched heels but they just think it is too costly to do so.

Exactly. All clothing manufacturers decide how much money to invest in materials, manufacturing and labor for their particular garments, which in turn dictates their product cost and retail pricing. Most companies could produce higher quality garments if they chose to do so, but they instead select a lower quality/price point to maximize efficiency and profits. Can't blame them. As an investor, I would rather own H&M or Zara, as opposed to The Real McCoys or Freewheelers.

 

[Monitor]

Speaking of Japanese brands. . .

https://www.superdenim.com/eu/handcrafted-horsehide-pig.html
https://www.superdenim.com/eu/handcrafted-horsehide-lion.html
https://www.superdenim.com/eu/handcrafted-horsehide-donkey.html

I have to say, though, this seems to lack that famous attention to detail Japanese brands are known for. I mean, the pig doesn't even have eyes. I was expecting more from RMC.

 

[Superfluous]

^ These are ridiculous and, IMHO, do a disservice to the brand.

 

[Monitor]

Wanted to add, after buying my first IH jacket, I've made it a mission to prove to myself they're not that much better than the next best thing and have failed miserably. Bought two more since and got one more on the way. IH denim, at least the one type that I've seen... You can't even compare it to any other more readily available brand. And an IH trucker doesn't even cost that much more than a new Levi's Type 3.

The pockets are too small, though. They're really tiny.

^ These are ridiculous and, IMHO, do a disservice to the brand.

Yep. Agreed. If you got one as a gift with a Buco jacket or whatever, that'd be really cool of RMC but selling 'em for $200!?

 

[Superfluous]

Coincidentally, I just came across this article about Freewheeelers, which also touches about Japanese workwear in general: https://www.heddels.com/2018/11/freewheelers-behind-brand-many-sub-labels/

Freewheelers: Behind the Brand and Its Many Sub-Labels
NOV 7, 2018 |BRAND PROFILES |by Will Varnam

Synonymous with heritage clothing, vintage design, and high-quality production methods, Japan has played a central role in creating the culture we find ourselves surrounded by here at Heddels. Whether that is a result of Osaka denim or well-made luggage, there is an inherent quality, luxury, and magnetism when it comes to Japanese brands. But why do we find ourselves drawn to the seemingly exotic garments from the land of the rising sun? Well, they’ve been at it longer than most and have a consistent track record to show for it. Not only that, but the Japanese have also mastered the art of balancing heritage and contemporary, to produce something truly special.

Much of this success is requires us to flip through the history book to the post-war years. Since the late 1940s Japan has been passionate about American culture, clothing and characters. This led to a thriving market for vintage clothing in the decades that followed, with ahead-of-the-curve Japanese vintage dealers flying back and forth to the US in search of vintage Levi’s 501s. Scouring thrift stores and flea markets, the amount of American vintage in Japan continued to increase amongst a steadily growing market of Ivy enthusiasts and Greaser gangs.

However, when early Twentieth Century vintage clothing became harder to find, the Japanese took matters into their own hands by developing and designing their own. A number of brands rose to prominence and popularity as a result, with Japanese denim soon becoming known as some of the finest in the world. At this point, it could be said, the Japanese vision had stepped up a gear and moved into a new era of style.

One brand which has developed a loyal and steadfast following on both sides of the Pacific is Freewheelers. Established in Tokyo in 2009, Freewheelers is much more than a reproducer of classic workwear. The brand’s approach is one of reference and reinvention. Taking some of the finest details and nuances from vintage garments, their offering is refined for the contemporary customer who appreciates the past but wants those references to be valid in the twenty-first century.

Cutting his teeth in his early twenties at The Real McCoy’s, designer Atsushi Yasui was instrumental in creating some of The Real McCoy’s most well-known garments. But the strict designs of reproductions would leave Yasui-san unfulfilled and he eventually left to start a brand with his friends called The Bootleggers. The brand would find its own success in Japan with some of their designs reaching incredible re-sell value. Though the brand no longer exists, it was actually renamed to Freewheelers.

The concept of the brand understandably harkens back to simpler times, when American-made garments were “functionally orientated and completely tough” as their website puts it. Whether this was workwear, outdoor clothing, sportswear or military uniform, for the creators of Freewheelers, it is the brutal simplicity and practicality of these items which serve as the central reference point for their product offering. In their own words, they “want to recreate the spirit of craftsmanship fostered in the process of making America”. Quite the tall order for one brand from Tokyo.

For any reader who is familiar with vintage garments or not, it’s clear to see that turn of the century workwear, an old leather motorcycle jacket or a military field uniform inspire the brand’s offering. But what makes Freewheelers distinct, is their interpretation. Whilst they admittedly don’t prescribe to a particular era, the brand is particularly taken by the Beat Generation due to their open and stark words which still resonate today. And whilst Kerouac, Ginsberg, and Burrows were unlikely to be familiar with their impact on Japanese heritage wear, there is undoubtedly a connection to a simpler time when America was still discovering its identity.

With such a diverse and detailed offering, it’s easy to be overwhelmed by the complexity of the brand. But we’ve done the hard work for you and highlighted a few key pieces alongside an overview of the Freewheelers enterprise.

Freewheelers has a number of sub-brands including: Great Lakes Gmt. Mfg. Co., The Union Special Overalls, Neal Cassidy Railroad, The Vanishing West, Power Wear, Hipsters Reunion, Hobo & the Trucking Co. and Hall of Fame. Each of these brands has a distinct backstory and aesthetic which is carefully considered and intentionally romanticized in a textbook Japanese fashion.

Great Lakes Gmt. Mfg. Co. reflects on the pioneers who left the East Coast and were fascinated with the vast expanse of America as they moved West. The line references classic workwear silhouettes and hard-wearing fabrics.

Union Special Overalls draws on the style and grit of hard-working railroad builders that helped found America as it expanded towards the West with the invention of the railroad. Expect to see plenty of denim, cotton duck, wool fabric and indigo cloth in this collection.

Neal Cassady Railroad references a similar period to Union Special Overalls, but highlights the soot-covered leather jackets and work shirts of daredevil brakemen and locomotive drivers of the gold-rush.

Alternatively, The Vanishing West pays homage to the cowboys, gold miners, gunslingers and outlaws of the American West. Denim forms the backbone of this line, but is supported by shirting and leather jackets.

Power Wear provides the kind of Japanese staples which we’ve come to expect from heritage perfectionists—classic American knitwear and sportswear. Faded sweatshirts, undergarments and printed t-shirts. These are the year-round staples you will want in your wardrobe.

Hipsters Reunion channels the revolution and rebellion of 1960-70s America with items inspired by the freedom of that period.

Hobo & the Trucking Co. references roadside America of the Depression era. But in contrast to other workwear inspired sub-brands of Freewheelers, the focus here is handmade accessories produced in small quantities. From a rough railroad switch lock to the legendary bluesman, Hobo & the Trucking Co. is an ideal partner for the Wabash stripe work shirt of Union Special Overalls.

Lastly, the Great American Clothing Hall of Fame is perhaps Freewheelers’ most iconic sub-brand. Items offered here area special lineup which recreates the charm of four original brands with their authentic trademarks. This includes Leather Togs Mfg. Co., Peter’s of San Francisco, Ironalls and Stifel. If you’re driven by detail, this is something you’ll want to obsess over.

As you would expect, many garments simply let the details do the talking. We’ve highlighted a few key items which we feel reflect the brand’s wider product offering.

Whilst Freewheelers is well known for their workwear garments, they are equally admired for their offering of leather jackets. Take the La Brea Jacket for example in ‘Rude Black’. The jacket is a Leather Togs Mfg. Co. item and is made from horsehide leather with a full wool lining. In addition, it features a Whizzer Zipper, D-pocket with hookless zipper, leather cinch strap and an adjustable waist belt.

Continued below . . .

 

[Superfluous]

Continued from above:

Another iconic piece from the brand would be their Gold Miner Overalls from the Union Special Overalls line. These trousers channel that classic late 1800s workwear styling and are made from a heavyweight cotton duck canvas. Made in Japan, they feature a cinch back, suspender buttons, single back pocket and intricate finishing details.

To complement any workwear outfit, readers may want to look at the Ironall work jacket from the Hall of Fame. Originally a pre-World War II workwear brand, this jacket is a 10oz. indigo one-wash with triple stitch seams, patch pockets and a chinstrap collar. This is a piece which is meticulously designed in order to capture the essence of what Freewheelers is all about; a nostalgic heritage offering using premium materials.

One drawback of the brand is its availability. Whilst some well-known stores (see below) do stock Freewheelers, don’t expect to find these items in every city. Some hardcore collectors of the brand will often proxy their items directly from Japan or use an international store, which can impact overall cost. As Freewheelers are about to celebrate their tenth anniversary in 2019, perhaps we’ll see a more substantial product offering within the US at select retailers.

Amongst a plethora of Japanese (and international) heritage brands, it is easy for the customer to feel overwhelmed and not know which direction to go in, when looking for that D-pocket leather jacket or workwear overall. What sets Freewheelers apart is not only their eye for detail, but their contemporary interpretation, without loosing the essence of originality.

 

[ton312]

Speaking of Japanese brands. . .

https://www.superdenim.com/eu/handcrafted-horsehide-pig.html
https://www.superdenim.com/eu/handcrafted-horsehide-lion.html
https://www.superdenim.com/eu/handcrafted-horsehide-donkey.html

I have to say, though, this seems to lack that famous attention to detail Japanese brands are known for. I mean, the pig doesn't even have eyes. I was expecting more from RMC.

Why isn't it a horse!?!? LOL. WTF.

 

[Big J]

@Dudewhattheheck,

Thank you for posting a link to your article. I tried to read it.
Before going any further I want to say, 'Please don't take this personally' (although based on my past experiences with you, I know that you will take any constructive criticism, plain questions even, as deeply personally attempts at character assasination and blow a gasket).

However, I couldn't read it all the way through to the end. It wasn't just your writing style, but the constant racial and racialized Japanese stereotypes that you use. I actually found it quite offensive. Especially when you compared the success of the 'Japanese denim invasion of America' to the failed 'Imperial Japanese invasion of America'. I don't know how many died in the fight against Japanese denim, but Japan's WWII cost about 80 million lives.

I know you probably think that you just have a snappy phrase and an artistic turn of phrase. I found myself flashing back to last years 'The Racist Lounge'.

Your whole article is kind of a textbook example of why people who can't read or write Japanese should be advised to keep their opinions to themselves; they are ill-informed.

You attempt to address the issue of why Japanese textiles are so great, yet anyone who can read and write Japanese would know that the first machine the Japanese ever saw was the loom. It came from China about 1300 years ago (probably via Korea). It initiated a 'golden era' of textile manufacturer, design, and fashion, immortalized in the literature of the Heian era (Genji Monogatari, Makura Zoshi, etc).

In fact, it led to such a cultural and social boom, the the Japanese kanji for the word loom (機) actually became the word for all machines. It can be found in the Japanese word for airplane, for example (飛行機).

Textiles are at the heart of the Japanese understanding of technology.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

@Dudewhattheheck,

Thank you for posting a link to your article. I tried to read it.
Before going any further I want to say, 'Please don't take this personally' (although based on my past experiences with you, I know that you will take any constructive criticism, plain questions even, as deeply personally attempts at character assasination and blow a gasket).

However, I couldn't read it all the way through to the end. It wasn't just your writing style, but the constant racial and racialized Japanese stereotypes that you use. I actually found it quite offensive. Especially when you compared the success of the 'Japanese denim invasion of America' to the failed 'Imperial Japanese invasion of America'. I don't know how many died in the fight against Japanese denim, but Japan's WWII cost about 80 million lives.

I know you probably think that you just have a snappy phrase and an artistic turn of phrase. I found myself flashing back to last years 'The Racist Lounge'.

Your whole article is kind of a textbook example of why people who can't read or write Japanese should be advised to keep their opinions to themselves; they are ill-informed.

You attempt to address the issue of why Japanese textiles are so great, yet anyone who can read and write Japanese would know that the first machine the Japanese ever saw was the loom. It came from China about 1300 years ago (probably via Korea). It initiated a 'golden era' of textile manufacturer, design, and fashion, immortalized in the literature of the Heian era (Genji Monogatari, Makura Zoshi, etc).

In fact, it led to such a cultural and social boom, the the Japanese kanji for the word loom (機) actually became the word for all machines. It can be found in the Japanese word for airplane, for example (飛行機).

Textiles are at the heart of the Japanese understanding of technology.

Thanks for opening up your statement by personally insulting me and then claiming that I take things too personally. Excuse me, where is the logic in this?!

I have reported you and if nothing is done soon, I will specifically message @Edward about it. There is no other way to deal with you at this point.

I think @Monitor and @ton312 can attest to the fact that I can engage in disagreements and even apologize when I know I messed up, but you seem to have a specific vendetta against me that I cannot explain in any other way than some unhealthy obsession.

I don't care about your comments on my article. A lot of people don't like my articles and I'm fine with that.