Thoughts about Japanese brands

[Superfluous]

An original iconic Sears Hercules jacket is going to be difficult to find anywhere. No matter where you find it is going to be expensive. The nicest one I've seen for sale was on eBay and sold while I was looking at it for $2,400.

I am fine paying a market price for a great quality Hercules ($2,400 is much less than what RRL charges for the same jacket). I will not compromise on quality simply to save money, and end up not wearing the jacket because of its poor condition.

I had contact with a fellow online through eBay. He is a long-time collector and I believe has a couple of those jackets. We exchanged a couple of emails and I have not heard from him. I was not asking about that jacket in particular. He is ill and may have not been able to get back to me

Interesting, as the broker I purchased my Buco from, and just exchanged text messages with, is also a long time collector who is ill. Is the guy you communicated with from California? Can you ask you contact if he has a Hercules with an 22 inch chest?

 

[Lebowski]

Top-notch japanese makers (such as Real McCoy's, Freewheelers, Rainbow Country etc.) make fabulous jackets, but sometimes they're a bit on a "sausage-looking" side, esp. on massive athletic frames.
But nice for slender frames though.
For instance, Himel Bros.'s and GW's have the same high level of quality along with more suitable proportions for "western type" frames (which are usually more massive in average than asian ones in average).
Anyway I like works of some japanese makers a lot.

 

[tmitchell59]

I am fine paying a market price for a great quality Hercules ($2,400 is much less than what RRL charges for the same jacket). I will not compromise on quality simply to save money, and end up not wearing the jacket because of its poor condition.



Interesting, as the broker I purchased my Buco from, and just exchanged text messages with, is also a long time collector who is ill. Is the guy you communicated with from California? Can you ask you contact if he has a Hercules with an 22 inch chest?

I thought maybe that would be the same guy you were talking about. Yes he is in California. He asked me if I had one of those jackets, I got the impression he had a couple but I must have been mistaken. He was looking through his pile for a wool leather combination jacket, but I never heard from him again

 

[red devil]

The Japanese stuff in general is great. But getting here in the States you’re either paying for huge markups from the few distributors or paying huge shipping costs.

Yep, you pay huge markup when you have to import the goods... Unless you have a friend that is visiting the country or you are going yourself there. I generally try one of these 2 options, otherwise my Lost Worlds jackets would have cost much more... I really am happy that there is at least Thedi Leathers in Europe.

I've owned and own a few items from Japanese makers. Lost Hills and Full Count Beach cloth jackets, RMC railcoat. All very well made. Really impressive quality, marvelous fits...However, I do not subscribe to the notion that "Made in Japan" somehow equates to a tier of quality that makers from other geographical locations cannot attain. It's simply not true. I think you'd agree as you've had the luxury of handling a great deal of very nice outerwear pieces from a variety of makers across the globe. I'm not a fan of some of the elitist mentality that seems to be somewhat consistent with certain Japanese brand fanatics. I suppose it's not exclusive to them however as I myself have been guilty of the same behavior. Let's not forget that the Japanese outerwear/vintage Americana obsession is somewhat in it's infancy. It was not that long ago that the only "leather" jacket you could get from Japan was actually made of vinyl and carried a SUDCO label.

I have been fortunate enough to be able to handle different jackets and I really love Thedi, LW and Freewheelers, all for different reasons. There are also many other makers to try and/ordiscover.

It reminds me a bit of the food culture in Europe vs US. You can get equally great food in the US and in Europe, but it's a lot easier to get crap in the US. This makes it reasonable to say that Europe has better food, but only if your talking about averages, not about peaks.

We are mainly dealing in peaks here

All that said, there is nothing like Japan anywhere else on the globe. The average quality of (pretty much) everything is very high. That doesn’t mean that everything is through the roof perfect, but I never really experienced anything that I would consider sub-par. The stunning part is that it applies to food, housing, hotels, public transport, groceries, clothing, …

Very well described

Once they like something they first try to replicate it and then make it better with an amount of dedication and focus I haven’t seen anywhere else. Some of the best Italian food I had was in Japan, not Italy. Then there are always hot trends. One year it is macarons from France, the next year it is stollen from Germany. Once something is hot they go all in. American Vintage and work wear is one of those trends. American work boots are particularly trendy right now. They match the aesthetics of their American counterpart, but the finishing and attention to details is much better.

The Japanese have always been very good at taking an existing idea and developing it to whole new levels.

For the purpose of full disclosure, I've lived in Japan for over 20 years, I did my doctoral research here. I'm fluent in Japanese and have a Japanese wife and kids.

Japan has a never ending stream of data falsification problems. Off the top of my head, I can think of killer airbags, failing brakes, falsified checks on nuclear reactor critical components, falsified earthquake damper performance, substandard supplies of aircraft components, falsified accounting at several top Japanese brands, HIV tainted infusions in hospitals, TB epidemic, substandard bullet train components that failed, substandard foundations leading to new apartment buildings being demolished, falsified construction data in tunnels that collapsed, etc, etc, often on-going for decades without prosecution.

Trains here really are late as often as in Europe.

That's not to say Japan is 'bad', but it's not 'better' either.

I think that the Japanese are very good at hiding their skeletons, and working very hard to promote the image that they want you to buy into; it's almost a national duty.

These days most Japanese products are mass produced in other Asian countries, so quality is not especially great.

There are a small number of companies making relatively niche clothing. They are selling a fetishized image of Americana for other Japanese.

Likewise, many foreigners who visit Japan are already loaded up with 'Japan myths' and images, and when they come to Japan, not being able to speak or read Japanese fluently, they see what they want to see, and what Japan will let them see. It's all very superficial.

Japan benefitted massively from postwar US technology transfer that enabled it to produce uniforms and such for the US military in Korea and Vietnam. That's the main reason they were able to knock out great repro stuff- the original machines and know-how was already here.

In the same way that postwar US manufacturers used their machines to make civilian clothes after the war, the Japanese have worked out that they can make vintage civilian clothes with the original machines they were making military reproductions on.

I love BR flight jackets. But the whole 'American vintage' scene in Japan is kind of a circle-jerk of people who go on 5 day tour group trips to the US, and only see the highlights.

The same way people who visit Japan don't see the staggering number of kids in poverty, workplace bullying, crumbling schools, or offices that still function on fax machines as a norm.

Both sides are suffering delusions.

Thanks for this post!
When it comes to trains, there is a huge variation in level of service depending where you are in Europe.
If you're talking about the UK... with trains cancelled because of "leaves on the track", "engineering problems", "hot weather", and others... then I think the Japanese trains coudn't be this bad even if they wanted to lol

However when it comes to the products that are being discussed on this forum the result of this is that the produce some of the best there are. They take the best they can find on the globe, replicate it and then further improve it.

Very well said!

 

[Sloan1874]

IMO, ELC has the dubious honour of having Japanese-style prices while being based in the UK.

 

[Mich486]

IMO, ELC has the dubious honour of having Japanese-style prices while being based in the UK.

Eastman stuff isn’t cheap but I don’t get your point. Made in Uk should be cheaper than made in Japan? (I think you are talking about leather jackets as a lot of the clothing sold by Eastman - as I’m sure you know -comes from Japan, denim jackets, lofgren etc.)


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[red devil]

IMO, ELC has the dubious honour of having Japanese-style prices while being based in the UK.

You do realise that there is a wide variety of prices in Japan, do you?

 

[breezer]

I've noticed Iron Heart doesn't get much love on FL.........is it perceived to be a Japanese brand? The prices on their website are as eye watering as buying RMC at Superdenim.....perhaps even higher. Astonishing that some folk would pay £250 for a flannel shirt.

 

[Sloan1874]

Eastman stuff isn’t cheap but I don’t get your point. Made in Uk should be cheaper than made in Japan? (I think you are talking about leather jackets as a lot of the clothing sold by Eastman - as I’m sure you know -comes from Japan, denim jackets, lofgren etc.)

I am, for the most part. I think ELC's jacket prices are bizarre given that they are, for the greater part, off-the-rack.
As far as Japan's prices go, I'm sure they vary *but* as somebody who uses Rakuten from time-to-time and purchases Buzz and Real McCoy, I know that the sort of stuff that passes muster here is at the upper end of the range. For instance, Clutch Cafe charge £1,700 for a pair of imported Japanese engineer boots! Now, I get that nobody's forcing me to buy this stuff, but it does beg the question: how can a pair of ready-made boots be worth twice what a pair of semi-bespoke Wesco boots cost?

 

[Mich486]

Those Clinch at £1,700 are just ridiculous. Honestly, the guy might hand stitch them and all but that price?!

That said, something off the rack in my mind doesn’t have to be necessarily cheaper that something where you can pick the leather/lining and change the sleeve length if the off the rack is better made.


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[bn1966]

IMO, ELC has the dubious honour of having Japanese-style prices while being based in the UK.

I'm an ELC 'Fan-Boy' (of many years standing) but it's got to the point where I think I've probably made of my last jacket purchases (a superb 'Monarch' contract A-2)...Think I'm about 'priced out' now.....a shame IMHO

 

[red devil]

I am, for the most part. I think ELC's jacket prices are bizarre given that they are, for the greater part, off-the-rack.
As far as Japan's prices go, I'm sure they vary *but* as somebody who uses Rakuten from time-to-time and purchases Buzz and Real McCoy, I know that the sort of stuff that passes muster here is at the upper end of the range. For instance, Clutch Cafe charge £1,700 for a pair of imported Japanese engineer boots! Now, I get that nobody's forcing me to buy this stuff, but it does beg the question: how can a pair of ready-made boots be worth twice what a pair of semi-bespoke Wesco boots cost?

Buzz Rickson and RMC are the equivalent of Himel? And cheaper as well
Which brand were these engineer boots? Most likely much cheaper in Japan.
The brass Tokyo engineer boots which are also semi-bespoke are much cheaper than that at the source

 

[handymike]

Fake Alpha in Tokyo has a couple of the Hercules jackets.

 

[Sloan1874]

Absolutely. But

Those Clinch at £1,700 are just ridiculous. Honestly, the guy might hand stitch them and all but that price?!

That said, something off the rack in my mind doesn’t have to be necessarily cheaper that something where you can pick the leather/lining and change the sleeve length if the off the rack is better made.

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Absolutely, which is why I chose Wescos as an example of top-notch quality.

 

[Superfluous]

I've noticed Iron Heart doesn't get much love on FL.

IH's denim jackets receive positive attention here. Iron Heart does not make leather jackets. Instead, IH partners with a controversial leather jacket manufacturer that many here disfavor.

Astonishing that some folk would pay £250 for a flannel shirt.

I guess I am "astonishing." Thank you for the kind words.

Place a Samurai, Flat Head/Glory Park, Freewheelers, Real McCoys or Iron Heart flannel next to a £70 flannel -- the difference in quality and fabric is night and day.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I literally wrote an article that goes very in depth on this. It is limited to Japan vs. the US, but it still is relevant.

The short version is that Japan is not perfect and doesn't automatically mean the best, but Japan has more super high quality clothing companies than each other country does. Obviously, there is amazing quality clothing all over the world. Keep in mind, I've also travelled to Japan to meet many of the makers and that taught me a lot.
https://almostvintagestyle.com/2018...e-in-usa-are-japanese-jeans-and-boots-better/

I can post it all here if you guys would prefer not to click the link.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Those Clinch at £1,700 are just ridiculous. Honestly, the guy might hand stitch them and all but that price?!

That said, something off the rack in my mind doesn’t have to be necessarily cheaper that something where you can pick the leather/lining and change the sleeve length if the off the rack is better made.


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They cost that much from that retailer. They aren't as expensive buying direct.
I bought my boots for far less money. At that price, I agree it is a stretch.

I own both Clinch and Wesco. The Clinch are made to a higher standard of finishing. Whether that is worth it to you or not is another thing, but it doesn't erase the Clinch quality.

A much better comparison is Role Club and Clinch which are of basically equal quality (I own both) and the differences are more in terms of shape and leather.

 

[Big J]

Thanks for the positive comments guys.
There are some Japanese out there making some great products. Likewise, there are people in Europe and the US doing the same. There's no 'magic' to it, just a passion. JC is a passionate guy. Ken is a passionate guy.

I agree with Sloan and Superfluous, many Japanese brands products are tailored for Japanese body shapes; thin long bodies, thin arms. This is why off the peg suits and shirts don't work for me here. Conversely, I've found BR repro flight jackets don't suffer with this problem (you can buy 'slim fit' versions here for Japanese customers who have thin bodies and arms). Actually, I find BR flight jackets oversized if anything. I have a measured chest of 47 inches now, but wear a tag size 44 and XXL in all their jackets.

I thoroughly recommend a trip to Japan as a holiday if you have the chance. It can be a real blast, which is what you want on holiday after all.

Japan was much better even 15 years ago though; the crazy fashions and styles were awesome. It's all gone a bit 'cookie-cutter' since then. Too many chain stores selling the same image. And generally there isn't as much money around as there used to be. People are choosing cheaper disposable clothes made in Asia and binning them at the end of the season instead of buying Vuitton and Prada (like university girls used to do) and keeping them for years.

 

[Big J]

One interesting thing for me is how pervasive America's 'soft power' is globally. I can travel virtually anywhere and find someone who idolizes James Dean, Marlon Brando, Frank Sinatra, or Elvis. That's some serious cultural influence thanks to Hollywood. I wonder how many Americans appreciate that years after their deaths, these guys are still out there promoting the idea of America?

For me way more perplexing is the number of non-Japanese who don't read, speak or write Japanese, have only visited for a holiday, and yet feel absolutely able to speak authoritatively about the place. I've been to Germany, but I wouldn't dare to make broad statements about German society or culture. I think it's got something to do with the huge effort by the US to rebrand Japan as an ally after the war, but I'm not sure.

 

[nick123]

One interesting thing for me is how pervasive America's 'soft power' is globally. I can travel virtually anywhere and find someone who idolizes James Dean, Marlon Brando, Frank Sinatra, or Elvis. That's some serious cultural influence thanks to Hollywood. I wonder how many Americans appreciate that years after their deaths, these guys are still out there promoting the idea of America?

For me way more perplexing is the number of non-Japanese who don't read, speak or write Japanese, have only visited for a holiday, and yet feel absolutely able to speak authoritatively about the place. I've been to Germany, but I wouldn't dare to make broad statements about German society or culture. I think it's got something to do with the huge effort by the US to rebrand Japan as an ally after the war, but I'm not sure.

All I needed to confirm my love for the Japanese people is their love for the Ventures (and in turn, the return love toward the Japanese). I don't know, they just did something right in that respect. I know it's a silly example but there's something powerful there; it's a true adoration of a component of Americana. I too think there exists that same passion with some of our favorite Japanese repro brands imitating vintage America. It's very real!