The Occult, are you a believer?

[John in Covina]

Does wearing a religious item of jewelry, like a necklace pendant, count as occult because some people think of them as a sign of protection?

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Yes, because the belief in protection by a talisman is belief in an unseen power that protects.

One question is about where the belief in religions or occult type practices has elements that do fly in the face of the reality of this world.

Such as if God is all powerful then you would think that nothing bad could happen in a church, synagog, temple or mosque, yet regularly around the globe there are shootings, warfare, earthquakes and bad weather that create havoc on the people and the buildings. If a talisman worked then these types of institutions would be protected also.

 

[John in Covina]

I get the same linguine with clam sauce every time. What do you mean? [huh]

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RED OR WHITE?

 

[Viola]

not necessarily true Viola.

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http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+2:14-26;&version=50;

If you have faith you will desire to do works. Goes hand in hand.

To me it is like restaurants.
You will never get the same dish at all Italian restaurants. Same with same religions. All have differences in many ways.
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Christianity though yes is based on belief in Jesus and his spotless blood. It is the only way for all Christians.

Yes, to Jews there is a faith component, i.e. a faithful Jew will desire to do good works, but for Jews, a non-Jew who does the same good works is still "getting credit," as it were. Even if they did it not out of love of G-d and his Word but out of belief in a totally different religion.

It is my understanding that Christians, on the otherhand, do not believe a non-Christian can be saved purely on charity work or heroic deeds? If I am wrong, please forgive me.

 

[stephen1965]

Same with same religions. All have differences in many ways.

Thank you.

I get the same linguine with clam sauce every time. What do you mean?

Must be a School thing The plates are always different but meal is the same!

 

[Viola]

Such as if God is all powerful then you would think that nothing bad could happen in a church, synagog, temple or mosque, yet regularly arounf the globe there are shootings, warfare, earthquakes and bad weather that create havoc on the people and the buildings. If a talisman worked then these types of institutions would be protected also.

I don't know. I don't see how one follows from the other. I believe G-d is all-powerful. I also believe that things like shootings and warfare fall under the category of mankind's freedom of choice, and freedom to sin.

 

[Viola]

Is the problems between the Israelis and the Palestinians religious or political?

Israel is a secular society. It is not religious from their side.

Is the problems with Iraq and Iran religious?

The US is a secular society. The religious aspects are not an aim from our side.

What side of these has the religious community actively directing the actions of the fighters?

For them it's religion for Western nations its political.


Don't you believe it's blood for oil?

Oy gevalt, I'm not going to touch this on the board, if you want to get into this, PM me. I can see a bartender reaching for a bat right now! lol

 

[stephen1965]

... I can see a bartender reaching for a bat right now! lol

Quick, back to the occult...lol

IMHO it's unfounded 'belief' that one's own side is right all the time that causes violence. This 'war on terror' stuff (as if there could be such a thing) is basically a war between 'belief' and non belief in my eyes. This is not meant to be a condemnation of religious Faith mind you..

 

[Foofoogal]

It is my understanding that Christians, on the otherhand, do not believe a non-Christian can be saved purely on charity work or heroic deeds? If I am wrong, please forgive me.

you are correct on this Viola. Only by the power of the Blood of Jesus and having Faith in Him and this blood and asking Him to be your Savior and Lord over your life. This is the only way for Christians.

 

[Viola]

I wear religious talisman jewelry sometimes. I've gotten pieces as gifts from friends and family. Honestly I'm as likely to think of fond thoughts of my auntie as any deeper significance on any given day... but at the same time it can be comforting.

 

[John in Covina]

Yes, to Jews there is a faith component, i.e. a faithful Jew will desire to do good works, but for Jews, a non-Jew who does the same good works is still "getting credit," as it were. Even if they did it not out of love of G-d and his Word but out of belief in a totally different religion.

It is my understanding that Christians, on the otherhand, do not believe a non-Christian can be saved purely on charity work or heroic deeds? If I am wrong, please forgive me.

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For many the answer is Yes, works don't count, it's not a point system.
In the New Testament Jesus says No one comes to the Father except thru me.

So the interpretation is that it is a belief in Jesus as Son of God that does it.

However, there are people that then predate Jesus that are in heaven as faithful as they believe in the promises of God. Also since the Jews have a covenant with God, then perhaps we maybe missing some piece of information as to how it's supposed to work out.

 

[Foofoogal]

I get the same linguine with clam sauce every time. What do you mean?

Hey, I am a Chicken Marsala expert, a Seafood Gumbo expert and a Blueberry Cheesecake expert. Believe me when I say they are not all the same in all restaurants.
Even same Christian type of church is not the same. Depends on the leadership mainly.

 

[Viola]

The power of blueberry cheesecake proves there is more in Heaven and Earth than all of your philosophies, Horatio. <---Topic! Also, cake! Or pie? Cheesecake is pie really.

 

["Skeet" McD]

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Yes, because the belief in protection by a talisman is belief in an unseen power that protects.

Dear John,
I'm pretty sure I know what you MEAN...but, Heaven knows, there's enough chance to misunderstand each other--and enough differing opinions that there will be plenty of opportunity to do so --it seems you are a Christian of an Evangelical persuasion? As Christians, we (and many other sorts of folks) certainly believe in "an unseen power that protects;" the problem for you, as an evangelical and actually for ME as a Catholic...is when one ascribes that power to the OBJECT....not the source of the protection (which, for us, would be the G-d of the Bible).

This is why, sadly, so many of my fellow-Roman-Catholics fall justly under Protestant charges of superstition and, if you will, idolatry...Catholicism is a religion that make much use of symbol; when you forget what the symbol represents....and begin to focus on IT...well, you have problems. Regarding images in Catholic worship, I always try to use the analogy of a photograph, say, of your beloved spouse. You may well have one on your desk, or by your bedside...it helps you remember your beloved and focus your thoughts on him or her; you might even kiss it before sleeping, if parted physically. But you would never mistake it for the real thing (Particularly when kissing it )

In the same way, crucifixes, crosses, plaster saints and icons CAN be misused in a superstitious "magical-thinking" way...but they don't have to be.

Or so it seems to me,
"Skeet"

 

[John in Covina]

The Occult is really great fertile ground for scary movies!

 

[Viola]

Skeet addressed what I was thinking: I certainly do believe in an "unseen power that protects" when I wear religious jewelry. But it's not like Wonder Woman's bracelets, I know the stone with the bit carved in it is stone. (Pretty stone, though, I think its turquoise or malachite!) But yeah, focuses thoughts, etc.

 

["Skeet" McD]

The Occult is really great fertile ground for scary movies!

Amen, Brother! And, unlike some scary movies...there might really be reason to be scared. (See also: The Exorcist) On the other hand, I'm not so worried about a 400-foot-tall lizard stalking up out of the sea to nibble on cities. Should I be? [huh] I sense another zig of the thread!

"Skeet"

 

[Viola]

You should be more worried about zombies.

And Nazi obsession with the occult. That's what I learned from that oh-so-education Dr. Jones and also Hellboy!

 

[stephen1965]

The power of blueberry cheesecake proves there is more in Heaven and Earth than all of your philosophies, Horatio. <---Topic! Also, cake! Or pie? Cheesecake is pie really.

Cheesecake is indeed a pie but they're all puddings deep down...except when they're just 'custard' in which case there's no hope of them ever being pudding.

In the New Testament Jesus says No one comes to the Father except thru me.

I am aware of this saying though I don't interpret in the way you do. To me, the 'Christ' is within and it is a name/symbol given in the West to man's spirit. The paths to it are many IMO..

 

[stephen1965]

[QUOTE="Skeet" McD] a 400-foot-tall lizard stalking up out of the sea to nibble on cities...
[/QUOTE]

Oh no, not lizards, not... David...Icke...lol

 

[John in Covina]

[QUOTE="Skeet" McD]Dear John,
I'm pretty sure I know what you MEAN...but, Heaven knows, there's enough chance to misunderstand each other--and enough differing opinions that there will be plenty of opportunity to do so --it seems you are a Christian of an Evangelical persuasion? As Christians, we (and many other sorts of folks) certainly believe in "an unseen power that protects;" the problem for you, as an evangelical and actually for ME as a Catholic...is when one ascribes that power to the OBJECT....not the source of the protection (which, for us, would be the G-d of the Bible).

This is why, sadly, so many of my fellow-Roman-Catholics fall justly under Protestant charges of superstition and, if you will, idolatry...Catholicism is a religion that make much use of symbol; when you forget what the symbol represents....and begin to focus on IT...well, you have problems. Regarding images in Catholic worship, I always try to use the analogy of a photograph, say, of your beloved spouse. You may well have one on your desk, or by your bedside...it helps you remember your beloved and focus your thoughts on him or her; you might even kiss it before sleeping, if parted physically. But you would never mistake it for the real thing (Particularly when kissing it )

In the same way, crucifixes, crosses, plaster saints and icons CAN be misused in a superstitious "magical-thinking" way...but they don't have to be.

Or so it seems to me,
"Skeet"[/QUOTE]

Not an Evangelical.

Roman Catholicism as you described above has often had a reliance on tradition that becomes so important that it then negates the Gospel or shares a place of honor where it should not.

The talisman idea is prevalant even today.

In the past, people would take the Communion Host (the waffer) home instead of eating it (as commanded) as a talisman for protection of the home. Not understanding how awful it is to take the Body of Jesus home like that and then aspire that it becomes a protection device, it is a bad thing to do , but the idea was pervasive and much preaching had to be done to stop it as a practice.


The concept of the occult and witchcraft is that one shal employ objects or entities to bend the will of others or the occurence or things to their will. This then is thing that it moves from God's will as to how things may occur to that of my will. It is a part of the original decption that you shall be like God.