The general decline in standards today

[sheeplady]

If a rapist gets the same amount of time as a robber, there is something really sick about our society. Even an armed home invasion isn't a rape...

 

[Matt Crunk]

But I am a victim whether it be through the theft of my personal belongings by the so many who need to do so support themselves or the fact that my tax dollars support them when they should go to me.

The key word here is DIRECT victim.

 

[Touchofevil]

The key word here is DIRECT victim.

I do not think it matters. I could say that directly I am a victim whether it be that I pay through taxes for their rehab, jail time, or welfare. I pay as a member of society due to their slacker non productive but support me because I deserve it lifestyle. I see it, work with it, deal with it daily. It has only gotten worse since California started handing scripts to every weak willed individual who does not want to cope with life on their own but on my dime. But then, that is just my opinion.

 

[LizzieMaine]

If a rapist gets the same amount of time as a robber, there is something really sick about our society. Even an armed home invasion isn't a rape...

Not only should the rapist hang, so should his lawyer.

 

[Matt Crunk]

I could say that directly I am a victim whether it be that I pay through taxes for their rehab, jail time, or welfare.

You could say anything you want, but that does not make it so. Being burdened indirectly by someone, such as having to pay higher taxes and premiums because of their irresponsible behavior, does not make you a direct victim, but an indirect one. In that sense we are all victims of all crimes.

I share your disgust of able-bodied people who choose to live off the welfare state. Scum of the Earth.

 

[Touchofevil]

You could say anything you want, but that does not make it so. Being burdened indirectly by someone, such as having to pay higher taxes and premiums because of their irresponsible behavior, does not make you a direct victim, but an indirect one. In that sense we are all victims of all crimes.

I share your disgust of able-bodied people who choose to live off the welfare state. Scum of the Earth.

Then we should agree to disagree for I am directly burdened by the irresponsible behavior of others.

 

[Zombie_61]

You can't convince me either as we have the canard know as medical MJ. It is nothing but an excuse for dopers to get high...

This isn't entirely true. There are responsible people with legitimate illnesses and ailments who are receiving relief through the use of medical marijuana; they're simply in the extreme minority of MM users.

 

[Touchofevil]

This isn't entirely true. There are responsible people with legitimate illnesses and ailments who are receiving relief through the use of medical marijuana; they're simply in the extreme minority of MM users.

Around here, I would bet money (which I do not do) they are the majority. This area may be the extreme, but it does exist. And by here, I mean the area in which I work.

 

[jamespowers]

Around here, I would bet money (which I do not do) they are the majority. This area may be the extreme, but it does exist. And by here, I mean the area in which I work.

Same down here near the largest outdoor insane asylum. it is laughable to think that all of these bongheads are just pitiable people trying to control their pain. Big damn deal. I control my bad back every day without so much as a pain pill. Deal with it and get to work!

 

[LizzieMaine]

Keith Stroup, NORML, in an interview with The Emory Wheel, student newspaper of Emory University, Atlanta Ga., February 6, 1979:


WHEEL: How is NORML utilizing the issue of marijuana treatment of chemotherapy patients?

STROUP: We are trying to get marijuana reclassified medically. If we do that, (we'll do it in at least 20 states this year for chemotherapy patients) we'll be using the issue as a red herring to give marijuana a good name. That's our way of getting to them (New Right) indirectly, just like the paraphernalia laws are their way at getting to us.



At least they're honest about it, if you press them -- or they were in 1979.

Note also how they try to insist that all of us who oppose legalization are in league with "the New Right," or by extension, whatever its current-day equivalent is. I'm further to the left on a lot of things than most people nowadays, but this has nothing to do with liberal-conservative debate. This is about the right of a society to protect itself from a clear and present danger.

As I said earlier, I voted in favor of medical marijuana in 1999, only because I knew someone who had used it while she was dying of ovarian cancer. But I voted against the dispensary system when it was put before us in 2009, and having seen the results, not only do I not regret that vote, I'm questioning whether I made the right choice in 1999.

There is a liquid cannabinoid spray called Sativex that was recently approved in Canada and the UK that has shown promise, and is now being Phase III tested in the US. It's intended both as a pain reliever for those in cancer treatment and for the treatment of spacticity in multiple sclerosis, and has shown much promise in treating both conditions. And it offers no "high" and no possibility for diversion into the recreational market whatsoever. That's real science.

 

[jamespowers]

There is a liquid cannabinoid spray called Sativex that was recently approved in Canada and the UK that has shown promise, and is now being Phase III tested in the US. It's intended both as a pain reliever for those in cancer treatment and for the treatment of spacticity in multiple sclerosis, and has shown much promise in treating both conditions. And it offers no "high" and no possibility for diversion into the recreational market whatsoever. That's real science.

So, in other words, bongheads will come out against it because it does not further their agenda of simply getting high---smoking it.

 

[sheeplady]

Not only should the rapist hang, so should his lawyer.

Well, unless they're a public defendant. I think everyone should get a public defendant to make sure their interests are represented, but it turns my stomach to read of some of these cases where the person gets a fancy lawyer and they get off on a technicality. Or like the recent Steubenville Ohio rape case where the kids got a year in juvie... disgusting.

 

[Atticus Finch]

If a rapist gets the same amount of time as a robber, there is something really sick about our society. Even an armed home invasion isn't a rape...

Again, just cleaning up the record. There are many kinds of rape, robbery and marijuana possession, but I know of no jurisdiction that punishes 1st degree rape and armed robbery as if they were the same level crime. And, I know of no jurisdiction that punishes possession of marijuana as if it was the same level crime as 1st degree rape or armed robbery.

In North Carolina, 1st degree forcible rape is a B1 felony. Armed robbery is a D felony...three levels down from 1st degree rape. In order to get up to a D felony for possessing marijuana, one must possess an excess of 10,000 lbs with the intent to traffic. All other forms of marijuana possession are lesser felonies or just misdemeanors.

AF

 

[sheeplady]

Again, just cleaning up the record. There are many kinds of rape, robbery and marijuana possession, but I know of no jurisdiction that punishes 1st degree rape and armed robbery as if they were the same level crime. And, I know of no jurisdiction that punishes possession of marijuana as if it was the same level crime as 1st degree rape or armed robbery.

In North Carolina, 1st degree forcible rape is a B1 felony. Armed robbery is a D felony...three levels down from 1st degree rape. In order to get up to a D felony for possessing marijuana, one must possess an excess of 10,000 lbs with the intent to traffic. All other forms of marijuana possession are lesser felonies or just misdemeanors.

AF

Good.

However, I am really disturbed by the Steubenville, OH case. I know that they are minors, but a year for sexually assaulting a young girl while she couldn't consent? (Although I understand they could be kept up to age 21, which would be 4 or 5 years, but I'm not clear on how that would happen.)

 

[Atticus Finch]

Good.

However, I am really disturbed by the Steubenville, OH case. I know that they are minors, but a year for sexually assaulting a young girl while she couldn't consent? (Although I understand they could be kept up to age 21, which would be 4 or 5 years, but I'm not clear on how that would happen.)

Juvenile criminal jurisprudence recognizes that juveniles lack the full capacity to formulate criminal intent. It’s the other edge of the same sword that recgonizes that juveniles lack the capacity to consent to sexual intercourse, or to live without a guardian, or to vote, or to possess certain kinds of consumer goods, or to make many other kinds of legally binding decisions.

AF

 

[vitanola]

Well, unless they're a public defendant. I think everyone should get a public defendant to make sure their interests are represented, but it turns my stomach to read of some of these cases where the person gets a fancy lawyer and they get off on a technicality. Or like the recent Steubenville Ohio rape case where the kids got a year in juvie... disgusting.

But never worry. The folks that exposed the boys from Steubenville are now facing some hard time (the prosecutor is asking for six years) for the crime of forcing the police to act in the case.

 

[sheeplady]

Juvenile criminal jurisprudence recognizes that juveniles lack the full capacity to formulate criminal intent. It’s the other edge of the same sword that recgonizes that juveniles lack the capacity to consent to sexual intercourse, or to live without a guardian, or to vote, or to possess certain kinds of consumer goods, or to make many other kinds of legally binding decisions.

AF

While I understand why the juvenile justice system exists, I fail to comprehend how a 16-year-old or a 17-year-old can receive a one-year sentence, with the ability to extend to 5 years (when they are 21). I fail to comprehend how rape isn't an offense that would at least require them to be kept 2 to 3 years at a minimum. Under what circumstances will their sentence be extended?

I, personally, am not for trying minors as adults. However, just because you are a minor and going to juvie (which is supposed to rehabilitate) doesn't mean that you should necessarily get a reduced sentence. I honestly don't believe you can rehabilitate a rapist who posts pictures of their rape online in a single year, especially considering they expressed remorse only for the posting of the pictures, and not the rape itself.

But never worry. The folks that exposed the boys from Steubenville are now facing some hard time (the prosecutor is asking for six years) for the crime of forcing the police to act in the case.

I don't understand this... are you saying that the bloggers and others that exposed this are being prosecuted?

If that's true, we're so messed up there is no hope for anyone anymore.

I think society would be a far better place if a gaping hole opened up and sucked that entire town up into an abyss. (The normal people can escape, but the nitwits stay to get sucked up.) Regular townspeople harassed that poor girl because prosecuting her rapists threatened a winning high school football team's record. The football coach refused to bench anyone who witnessed it and didn't act because he doesn't go online; he even came out and implied that there was nothing wrong with what happened. All for a lousy high school football team.

 

[GHT]

Ah, so good to see that American justice isn't exempt from the malaise that we experience here in the UK. Today I read in my newspaper, that Kristian Holmes, a surveyor, on a £60K plus salary, was sentenced to three and a half years in prison........... For being a secret graffiti artist. According to the report, his handywork cost in excess of a quarter million pounds to clean up.
On the other hand, we have an octogenarian, name of Stuart Hall, a one time television presenter, sports commentator and all round British celebrity. He recently pleaded guilty to child molestation, albeit 40 years ago. He admitted assaulting girls as young as nine years old, up to their late teens. He got.........Would you believe? Fifteen months jail term. Now doesn't that make me sleep easy in my bed?

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think society would be a far better place if a gaping hole opened up and sucked that entire town up into an abyss. (The normal people can escape, but the nitwits stay to get sucked up.) Regular townspeople harassed that poor girl because prosecuting her rapists threatened a winning high school football team's record. The football coach refused to bench anyone who witnessed it and didn't act because he doesn't go online; he even came out and implied that there was nothing wrong with what happened. All for a lousy high school football team.

Failing a sudden sinkhole, and aside from all warranted criminal prosecution, the very least that ought to happen is that:

1. The coach should be summarily fired. If he is protected by a union, the union should expel him from membership.

2. All members of the team should be suspended from athletic programs for the rest of their school careers.

3. The football program should be expelled from its conference and its record during the season in question stricken from the books.

If none of these things happen, I think it's safe to say we've fallen to rock bottom as a society. A community that *tolerates* such crimes is every bit as culpable for them as the individuals who commit the act.

 

[Atticus Finch]

While I understand why the juvenile justice system exists, I fail to comprehend how a 16-year-old or a 17-year-old can receive a one-year sentence, with the ability to extend to 5 years (when they are 21). I fail to comprehend how rape isn't an offense that would at least require them to be kept 2 to 3 years at a minimum. Under what circumstances will their sentence be extended?

Not sure about the answer to this. At least not without reviewing the applicable statute from that state and knowing a little more about the facts of the case. For what its worth, in NC the sixteen and seventeen year olds would be adults for the purposes of criminal prosecution.

Please let me add that no two criminal prosecutions are alike. It is very difficult to compare the end results of specific cases and not see some asymmetry. Sentences are based on many factors including the classification of the offence, the defendant’s criminal history, the presence or absence of aggravating and mitigating factors, and most importantly, the strength of the State’s case. There have been many times that I have had to hold my nose and plea cases to much less than the maximum sentence, because I knew that my chances before a jury were slim. Simply stated, I evaluated the evidence (or lack thereof) and plead those cases to what they were worth…which was not much. To the casual observer, it probably looked like those defendants were being under punished. But the other option was to waste days or weeks at trial and probably end up losing everything.

AF