The general decline in standards today

[vitanola]

As a competition law specialist, that had me giggling out loud.

Yet there are quite a few rather well-placed folks who maintain that the concept of "market failure" is an oxymoron.

 

[Matt Crunk]

I like the way people try to lump the idea of legalizing a small amount of home-grown marijuana for personal use in with the problem of hardcore drug trafficking and the criminal culture that surrounds it. That's like comparing a guy brewing up a few gallons of beer in his basement to Al Capone's criminal enterprise.

I never touched alcohol or drugs to "escape." . . . I'm now fifty years old and I've never been drunk or high, and I'm very proud of that, that I've been able to accomplish what I've accomplished in my life while staying completely free of those substances.

Well, I'm 47 years old and have never done either to "escape". My use has always been very moderate and recreational, and I have never been DRUNK or WASTED in my life, nor without complete control of my faculties. Just a mild buzz to help me relax and enjoy my leisure time is all I've ever sought. I know many people, including doctors and other health care professionals, and even cops, who do the same.

 

[Touchofevil]

I like the way people try to lump the idea of legalizing a small amount of home-grown marijuana for personal use in with the problem of hardcore drug trafficking and the criminal culture that surrounds it. That's like comparing a guy brewing up a few gallons of beer in his basement to Al Capone's criminal enterprise.

But look what legalizing it for medical use has accomplished: horribly regulated and abused by many.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

And government always works flawlessly---to steal as much as you let them get away with---probably one the reasons so many of them are for legalized dope.

It's a tough call as to who do you place your trust in: money-hungry corporations or power-hungry politicians and bureaucrats??? While money is power, power is not necessarily money.

 

[LizzieMaine]

But look what legalizing it for medical use has accomplished: horribly regulated and abused by many.

And again, we've already decriminalized small amounts here in Maine. If you get caught, it's got no more legal consequences than a parking ticket. And what's the result been? We're one of the top ten states in the nation for marijuana abuse for ages 12 and up. We've barely got a million people in the whole state, three quarters of the state is populated only by moose and blackflies, and we're in the pothead top frigging ten.

And remember, As Maine Goes, So Goes The Nation.

You know what? I honestly couldn't care less about the cost of prisons, or the Mexican border, or what John Locke might say about the value of personal freedom. I do care about people right in my own town who have little enough in their lives as it is without screwing themselves up even more with dope and booze.

 

[Matt Crunk]

But look what legalizing it for medical use has accomplished: horribly regulated and abused by many.

That's what happens when you bring any commercial aspect into it. Beyond a limit on how much you could possess at any one time, there'd be no regulation required of home-growers. You just couldn't sell it or profit from it in any way. No different from homemade beer or wine, and the consequences for misuse would be the same as well.

Now, isn't there any other areas of standards in decline that we could discuss? The drug issue has been discussed to death.

 

[Touchofevil]

That's what happens when you bring any commercial aspect into it. Beyond a limit on how much you could possess at any one time, there'd be no regulation required of home-growers. You just couldn't sell it or profit from it in any way. No different from homemade beer or wine, and the consequences for misuse would be the same as well.

Now, isn't there any other areas of standards in decline that we could discuss? The drug issue has been discussed to death.

But many in area in which I work are selling and profitting and all while supposedly ill and/or on some sort of government ran financial assistance.
Okay, I am done.

 

[Matt Crunk]

And again, we've already decriminalized small amounts here in Maine. If you get caught, it's got no more legal consequences than a parking ticket. And what's the result been? We're one of the top ten states in the nation for marijuana abuse for ages 12 and up. We've barely got a million people in the whole state, three quarters of the state is populated only by moose and blackflies, and we're in the pothead top frigging ten.

Lizzie, I would maintain that is a people problem, not a drug problem. Outlaw all non-pharmaceutical drugs and alcohol, and some people are still gonna find, use and abuse them.

 

[Touchofevil]

Lizzie, I would maintain that is a people problem, not a drug problem. Outlaw all non-pharmaceutical drugs and alcohol, and some people are still gonna find, use and abuse them.

Hence the huffing of paint out of a brown paper bag.

 

[Matt Crunk]

OK, enough with the drugs. There are plenty more vices to discuss. How about prostitution? It's never made sense to me that a woman can give it away all she wants, but the moment she charges for it, she's a criminal.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Hence the huffing of paint out of a brown paper bag.

Which is what I've been saying all along -- it's the culture of intoxication that's the problem, not just the specific substances. It's the idea whole idea that no matter what the problem is, whether you're chronically depressed or you're flunking calculus, or your boss yelled at you, or your boyfriend is a shiftless no-account worthless louse, or you just got a scratch on your new Lexus, relief is just a toke or a pill or a hit or a shot away. Numb yourself enough, and everything will be jussssssst fiiiiiiiiine.

Why are we encouraging this as a society?

Why are we saying "well, it doesn't hurt anybody" when very obviously it does?

Have we really grown so flaccid as a people that we can't live without our crutches?

Have we really lost any semblance at all of a community conscience?

 

[Touchofevil]

OK, enough with the drugs. There are plenty more vices to discuss. How about prostitution? It's never made sense to me that a woman can give it away all she wants, but the moment she charges for it, she's a criminal.

Another can of worms has been opened.

 

[Touchofevil]

Which is what I've been saying all along -- it's the culture of intoxication that's the problem, not just the specific substances. It's the idea whole idea that no matter what the problem is, whether you're chronically depressed or you're flunking calculus, or your boss yelled at you, or your boyfriend is a shiftless no-account worthless louse, or you just got a scratch on your new Lexus, relief is just a toke or a pill or a hit or a shot away. Numb yourself enough, and everything will be jussssssst fiiiiiiiiine.

Why are we encouraging this as a society?

Why are we saying "well, it doesn't hurt anybody" when very obviously it does?

Have we really grown so flaccid as a people that we can't live without our crutches?

Have we really lost any semblance at all of a community conscience?

Not only does it hurt " Anybody," but everyone else gets to suffer the consequences whether it be directly or indirectly.

 

[Matt Crunk]

Or how about NO VICTIM: NO CRIME? The legal concept that without a clear and direct victim, there is no prosecutable offense.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

So much here to dunk in our coffee.
...er, that didn't sound quite right

 

[Matt Crunk]

Have we really lost any semblance at all of a community conscience?

Well, in my community we find it wrong that a man can get 20 years behind bars for growing a couple of pot plants in his backyard, while a robber or rapist gets five. There is something very wrong with that and it happens all the time.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Only if he's been selling it. In Alabama, possession of any amount for personal use is a misdemeanor with a maximum sentence of one year. And if he's selling it, he deserves to have the book thrown at him.

Alabama pot laws, straight from NORML.

(And the rapist deserves to hang. But that's another debate.)

 

[Feraud]

Which is what I've been saying all along -- it's the culture of intoxication that's the problem, not just the specific substances. It's the idea whole idea that no matter what the problem is, whether you're chronically depressed or you're flunking calculus, or your boss yelled at you, or your boyfriend is a shiftless no-account worthless louse, or you just got a scratch on your new Lexus, relief is just a toke or a pill or a hit or a shot away. Numb yourself enough, and everything will be jussssssst fiiiiiiiiine.

Why are we encouraging this as a society?

Why are we saying "well, it doesn't hurt anybody" when very obviously it does?

Have we really grown so flaccid as a people that we can't live without our crutches?

Have we really lost any semblance at all of a community conscience?

Yes our standards have declined to such a degree that anything that happens in our life that is not totally awesome needs to be remedied with drugs, alcohol, etc. God forbid people cannot go numb for a while..

 

[Touchofevil]

Or how about NO VICTIM: NO CRIME? The legal concept that without a clear and direct victim, there is no prosecutable offense.

But I am a victim whether it be through the theft of my personal belongings by the so many who need to do so support themselves or the fact that my tax dollars support them when they should go to me.

 

[Matt Crunk]

(And the rapist deserves to hang. But that's another debate.)

On that, you and I are in total agreement. I would go so far as to say ALL predatory criminals deserve to hang.