The general decline in standards today

[jamespowers]

The great thing with slide rules was that there was lots of space on the back to write a lot of formulas, equations and other notes before the exam. Couldn't do that on the back of the old HP calculators.

You just didn't write small enough.

 

[jamespowers]

Why does that not surprise me? :rofl: lol

:rofl:

 

[Flicka]

Why does that not surprise me? :rofl: lol

All right. I'm going to play this like an adult. Is that a way of not-so-subtly saying that I'm in some way ill-mannered? Because if it is, that's your prerogative to think so, but then it's fairly rude to say so. If that's not what you mean, I don't get the joke.

 

[LizzieMaine]

For what it's worth I've always found you to be a very well-mannered member -- outspoken, which is a quality I consider very Golden Era, but in no way rude about it.

I suspect the joke was more intended to be about permissive modern schools, but I hope the participants will let the rest of us in on the gag.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

All right. I'm going to play this like an adult. Is that a way of not-so-subtly saying that I'm in some way ill-mannered? Because if it is, that's your prerogative to think so, but then it's fairly rude to say so. If that's not what you mean, I don't get the joke.

My comment was not intended as a personal jibe or attack. It was not my intention to offend nor to cast any aspersions on your character and if I did I offer my sincerest apologies. I think the point of humor I was trying to convey was derived from the shock of recognition that very often appears to confirm popular stereotypes and, as Lizzie said, it was more of a comment on permissive modern schools. Perhaps I didn't express it as well or as tactfully as I would have liked and therein the fault is my own.

 

[rue]

V.C. I can't leave you anywhere

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

V.C. I can't leave you anywhere

Yeahhh, that Minefield Merengue is very addicting.

Only it was me this time.

 

[rue]

Yeahhh, that Minefield Merengue is very addicting.

Only it was me this time.

:rofl:

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I was listening to the radio news in the car with my parents the day they banned caning, and all physical punishment, in Scotland … I think it must have been 1986 or 1987. I was joyous, and so were they, and so, tbh, were most of the teachers. The days of the brutal abusive old teachers, barely more (if even that) literate or numerate than the 8-year-olds they were teaching, was finally over. This inadequacy, of course, was the very foundation of the beatings. For the most part we're not talking about punishment for wrongdoing, we're talking about violent abusive sadists. Were it sexual abuse (and sadly we're finding out that in many schools it often was) there would now be court cases. I don't understand why these abuses are not considered so serious.

My grandparents were horrified at the Decline in Standards, and worried that children would now "run riot". Never happened of course.

school in the UK right up to the mid 1980's was still very Victorian with punishments to suit....I remember having the board rubber thrown at me, being clipped around the ear was a regular bit of fun for the teachers as was kicking students up the jacksie, in woodwork our teacher Mr Wood (seriously) used to hit you with a piece of 3"x2" until you took woodwork as a subject then you just got clipped around the ear for a change, cane was often dished out with the same names in the caning book over and over....1' rule was quite nice when used edge on across your finger nails but the greatest leveler I remember was in junior (primary) school when we were in class and were allowed to use pastel sticks for the first time( the ones you can dip in water) it didn't take us long to discover that when one was dropped into the water that it would dissolve, result at the lesson end was a jam jar full of brown sludge and me and 3 mates all with empty pastel packets and brown slime all over our faces and clothes....our teacher was a canny fellow from the North East of England and his punishment to us was for us all to line up facing the pile of wooden milk crates that were near the door/corner of the room he then took a good run up and kneed eacj and every one of us up the derriere resulting in us all ending up in a crumpled heap on top of each other, the class found it hilarious us less so but it kept us in check for a while!

 

[Two Types]

Scottish school punishments were legendary .... my father-in law recalls his own father giving him the belt in front of the class (early 1950s). Another teacher at the same school would ask a question and then 'belt' the entire class if they didn't know the answer.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

My father has the misfortune to be left handed. This was sufficient to induce epic beatings (Government school in Northern Scotland - at least I was in the South!!). Beatings for being willfully obstinate in using his left hand (The Devil's hand, apparently), beatings for bad writing when forced to use his right hand, and further beatings for complaining about the treatment.

Those who wish to return to physical punishment don't recall, I think, what State-sanctioned violence against children brought out in some teachers. I'm convinced that, like for paedophiles, and just as for the Priesthood, violent sadists were drawn to the profession in order to gain access to their prey.

Children frequently act like little sh***s, punching them in the face is not the answer.

 

[davidraphael]

I agree. It wasn't much better down in Manchester. Even in the 80s teachers were dishing out canes, wooden bats, the soles of shoes, as well as slaps and hits to the head, and in one case I recall clearly, a kick to the balls.

Then there was the psychological torture: bullying, intimidation.
One new teacher I had introduced himself by saying he'd spent time in prison for GBH (grievous bodily harm), that he had a very short temper, so was warning us boys that he couldn't be held responsible for his actions if we pushed him. No doubt a fabrication, but that's the way they thought they could control us. Control through fear. Very Victorian.

Some of these teachers seemed to really revel in their petty power.

I despised school; I learned nothing.

"When we grew up and went to school
There were certain teachers who would
Hurt the children in any way they could
By pouring their derision upon anything we did
And exposing every weakness
However carefully hidden by the kids" - Pink Floyd "The Happiest Days of Our Lives"

 

[jamespowers]

Wow! You guys really got it over there. They didn't do any of that over here and still public education stinks.

 

[m0nk]

Wow! You guys really got it over there. They didn't do any of that over here and still public education stinks.

They had wood paddles in my school until I was in middle school. That died out around here at the end of the 80's, and although schools still aren't all that great at dealing with kids, they're getting more input from parents than before and it seems like tying home and school life together is a better way. I feel like a part of my son's education and discipline, and while he's wound up at times, we can work together to find the best solution for him. I'm optimistic that he'll turn out as a great man some day.

 

[jamespowers]

They had wood paddles in my school until I was in middle school. That died out around here at the end of the 80's, and although schools still aren't all that great at dealing with kids, they're getting more input from parents than before and it seems like tying home and school life together is a better way. I feel like a part of my son's education and discipline, and while he's wound up at times, we can work together to find the best solution for him. I'm optimistic that he'll turn out as a great man some day.

It is a total mess here. The teachers could care less and the parents are mildly interested. The children are ill mannered and bully each other. I had to jump out of the government option. My son got nothing from a whole year of school. That was enough for me. It is irreparably broken out here and needs to be completely restructured.:eusa_doh:

 

[LizzieMaine]

Other than incidents of throwing kids down flights of stairs or putting the occasional head thru a plaster wall -- all incidents that were provoked by a violent first move on the part of the kid -- there were no paddles, canes, whips, lead pipes, iron rods, or guns in our schools. You might get a ruler cracked across your knuckles in the first grade, but boo hoo hoo. You could expect worse when you got home.

Our teachers maintained discipline with words, looks, and the knowledge that the administration would *always* back them up. That's the big difference between now and then, I think -- the lawyers weren't running the school district.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Not to mention the fact that schools are often unwilling to get rid of troublemakers and other disruptive elements because it would mean a loss of their precious funding.

 

[jamespowers]

Our teachers maintained discipline with words, looks, and the knowledge that the administration would *always* back them up. That's the big difference between now and then, I think -- the lawyers weren't running the school district.

It sure is a big difference! The results stink too.
Out here, the teacher's union runs the schools and it just isn't working.

 

[jamespowers]

Not to mention the fact that schools are often unwilling to get rid of troublemakers and other disruptive elements because it would mean a loss of their precious funding.

Funding is KING. Lately we have been getting blasted with a local parcel tax campaign, phones walking and everything. My response has been---show me you can get some results first. So far nothing you have done warrants me giving you fifty cents more.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Here the problem is that every crackpot with an agenda can get elected to the school board, because no normal person wants to run, knowing that they're going to be undermined at every turn and that little meaningful will be accomplished. So you end up with a bunch of people running things who are more concerned with ideology than with education, and the result is chaos. I covered local education for years as a reporter, and it was a mess then -- but now the clowns have taken over the circus.