The general decline in standards today

[esteban68]

I have to admit I personally didn't see any 'serious' bullying or attacks on pupils, it was low level discipline reinforcement or that's how it was seen, I harbour no grudges and some of it was downright amusing like the male WW2 veteran teacher who was rubbish at everything but extremely witty with good war stories so we forgave him, once seen him threaten a girl with cutting her throat with a rusty old scalpel (he'd been on the sherry again....seriously!), another one our old Headmaster was a very grumpy fellow and he once caught us fighting in the corridor of the quad with 1' rules and other 'weapons' we had fashioned, his punishment was for us to write a 1000 word essay for the following day about the trouble in the Middle East (his pet subject as he'd been in Palestine in 48), I sweated all night oin it as failiure meant the cane, so in I went next day completely knackered....we all lined up outside his office straight after morning assembly on recieving the papers from the four of us he gave them a quick glance tore them up and threw them in the bin...lesson learnt!

The film Kes gives a good idea how it was, here's a good scene http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZB0i0NzOe0 the whole film is a classic and well worth watching

 

[jamespowers]

Here the problem is that every crackpot with an agenda can get elected to the school board, because no normal person wants to run, knowing that they're going to be undermined at every turn and that little meaningful will be accomplished. So you end up with a bunch of people running things who are more concerned with ideology than with education, and the result is chaos. I covered local education for years as a reporter, and it was a mess then -- but now the clowns have taken over the circus.

That is the same thing here. I know. I ran once myself. The teacher's union chooses their candidate and backs them to the hilt and maligns, lies and libels their competition. Needless to say, every person on the board is beholding to the people that got them elected and all they are concerned with is higher wages, which gives them more dues and more money to sink into the next campaign to get another person elected who will increase their wages and start the whole cycle over again. It is insane and the children are left out in the cold. Just reprehensible.
This election, everyone is elected by acclamation because no one ran against them to face that kind of abuse.:eusa_doh:[huh]

 

[1961MJS]

Here the problem is that every crackpot with an agenda can get elected to the school board, because no normal person wants to run, knowing that they're going to be undermined at every turn and that little meaningful will be accomplished. So you end up with a bunch of people running things who are more concerned with ideology than with education, and the result is chaos. I covered local education for years as a reporter, and it was a mess then -- but now the clowns have taken over the circus.

Hi

Actually you've really defined the problem in current politics. Everybody worth having in office has a "real job" and wont' put themselves through that crap.

My school distract back home has had several parents that were bizarrely "single issue", ran for, and were elected to the school board. My high school doesn't have football. One guy ran for the school board before his kid started high school for the sole purpose of reaching written agreement with one of the other high schools for our high school kids (especially his) to play football. Same idea different sport, different high school for Girls Basketball.

Later

Later

 

[jamespowers]

I have to admit I personally didn't see any 'serious' bullying or attacks on pupils, it was low level discipline reinforcement or that's how it was seen, I harbour no grudges and some of it was downright amusing like the male WW2 veteran teacher who was rubbish at everything but extremely witty with good war stories so we forgave him, once seen him threaten a girl with cutting her throat with a rusty old scalpel (he'd been on the sherry again....seriously!), another one our old Headmaster was a very grumpy fellow and he once caught us fighting in the corridor of the quad with 1' rules and other 'weapons' we had fashioned, his punishment was for us to write a 1000 word essay for the following day about the trouble in the Middle East (his pet subject as he'd been in Palestine in 48), I sweated all night oin it as failiure meant the cane, so in I went next day completely knackered....we all lined up outside his office straight after morning assembly on recieving the papers from the four of us he gave them a quick glance tore them up and threw them in the bin...lesson learnt!

The film Kes gives a good idea how it was, here's a good scene http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZB0i0NzOe0 the whole film is a classic and well worth watching

Interesting. A former teacher my wife had told a story about a student who threw a meat cleaver at her during class. He missed and it stuck in the piano! She was the tough disciplinarian teacher too! She never laid her hands ont he students either. They were just animals!

 

[jamespowers]

Hi

Actually you've really defined the problem in current politics. Everybody worth having in office has a "real job" and wont' put themselves through that crap.

Amen!

 

[LizzieMaine]

My school distract back home has had several parents that were bizarrely "single issue", ran for, and were elected to the school board. My high school doesn't have football. One guy ran for the school board before his kid started high school for the sole purpose of reaching written agreement with one of the other high schools for our high school kids (especially his) to play football. Same idea different sport, different high school for Girls Basketball.

Exactly the situation here. You have one board member who's there only to argue for Phonics-Based Reading Instruction. You've got another who's there solely to argue against cutting the football program. You've got a third who wants to tear down the old elementary school in the North End and sell the land to private developers. And you've got the one who wont rest until all the local districts merge into one big mega-district covering the whole coastal region. And none of them care about much of anything else. If there's anything that makes me gladder than glad that I never had kids, this would be it.

 

[esteban68]

I can believe the meat cleaver, we had one student in the year above who tried to poison the whole staff room full of teachers by poisoning the Burco boiler!
Problem is over here that Public anbd grammar school education was for the well off and brightest/switched on kids and parents to provide captains of industry and for the services, the Comprehensive system was to provide (originally) girls to go into service and boys realistically for cannon and foundry/industry/pit fodder...by the mid 70's with discontent every where we could all see it for what it was a cheap way of educating the masses, after all it didn't matter too much as there were plenty of jobs even for the dimmest and most uneducated of kids if they wanted it...but now there is very little job wise for today state educated kids especially the boys and it 's going to get worse the new Academy system is nothing more than a way of reducing teachers wages whilst fooling parents and children into thinking they are going to an 'Academy' in reality it's the same old underfunded schools with new names!
I pity the children and teachers.

 

[jamespowers]

If there's anything that makes me gladder than glad that I never had kids, this would be it.

It is quite a struggle unless you just dump them and have you rchildren go to a private/parochial school of your choice......

 

[Miss Sis]

My father has the misfortune to be left handed. This was sufficient to induce epic beatings (Government school in Northern Scotland - at least I was in the South!!). Beatings for being willfully obstinate in using his left hand (The Devil's hand, apparently), beatings for bad writing when forced to use his right hand, and further beatings for complaining about the treatment.

Interesting this was still going on with your father's generation, Baron. My Great Grandfather was Scottish and Left handed. He was forced to change to his Right hand but still had amazingly beautiful handwriting (several examples of which I have seen on the back of WW1 Postcards home). However, he emigrated at ten to New Zealand about 1898. My Nana, his daughter, was Left handed and I don't recall her mentioning that she was ever told to use her Right hand. Lucky, as she was completely Left handed!

My Mother is also Left handed, was only once told to use her Right hand for writing. She was on a long term visit to a relative and had to go to a different school for three months. She was staying with her Great Aunt (sister of my Scottish G Granddad) who had been a Primary School teacher her whole life before she retired. When my mother told her what had happened, she put her hat on, marched down to the school and gave that teacher what for! She came back and told my mother she was to continue using her Left hand. This was about 1950. That a teacher then didn't know what a previous generation teacher knew about how wrong and damaging that could be shocked me when she told me. Luckily for my Mum, she is pretty much ambidextrous anyway! LOL.

As an Early Years Educator (as they like to call us these days), I never put a pencil into a child's hand, but offer it to them and wait to see which hand they prefer.

 

[jamespowers]

I can believe the meat cleaver, we had one student in the year above who tried to poison the whole staff room full of teachers by poisoning the Burco boiler!
Problem is over here that Public anbd grammar school education was for the well off and brightest/switched on kids and parents to provide captains of industry and for the services, the Comprehensive system was to provide (originally) girls to go into service and boys realistically for cannon and foundry/industry/pit fodder...by the mid 70's with discontent every where we could all see it for what it was a cheap way of educating the masses, after all it didn't matter too much as there were plenty of jobs even for the dimmest and most uneducated of kids if they wanted it...but now there is very little job wise for today state educated kids especially the boys and it 's going to get worse the new Academy system is nothing more than a way of reducing teachers wages whilst fooling parents and children into thinking they are going to an 'Academy' in reality it's the same old underfunded schools with new names!
I pity the children and teachers.

The woman surprised me with that story. She had a few hundred other ones too. It is tough to be a good teacher when everything in the system is against you.:eusa_doh: She was awarded a distinguished teacher award by the President before she retired.

 

[esteban68]

There are very few really bad people teachers /children or otherwise as you say usually the systems fault, problem is education/ health is always used as a poitical tool.....I remember some of my teachers with much affection, my English teacher left me with a love of reading that last to this day, my history and art teacher(it was the same lady) again left me with a love of art and history that persists, PE teacher I like physical activity because I am used to it as there was no shirking back then at least for the boys, 5 mile cross country runs were the norm in winter, woodwork, metalwork, technical drawing are all things I learnt at school that have stood me in good stead ever since, rather than celbrating mediocrity and giving celebs kngighthoods etc they should pick long serving public service employees who take very little sick time off, do their jobs well serve and inspire their communities.

 

[jamespowers]

rather than celebrating mediocrity and giving celebs knighthoods etc they should pick long serving public service employees who take very little sick time off, do their jobs well, serve and inspire their communities.

That might kill them if they actually did that either here or where you are.

 

[Flicka]

My comment was not intended as a personal jibe or attack. It was not my intention to offend nor to cast any aspersions on your character and if I did I offer my sincerest apologies. I think the point of humor I was trying to convey was derived from the shock of recognition that very often appears to confirm popular stereotypes and, as Lizzie said, it was more of a comment on permissive modern schools. Perhaps I didn't express it as well or as tactfully as I would have liked and therein the fault is my own.

Aha. I see. I must have been misled by the extreme mirth of the smileys into thinking there was something more to it. But there you are. The danger of over-thinking things!

 

[esteban68]

That might kill them if they actually did that either here or where you are.

There are some, we recently had a local school crossing lady retire after 40 or so years service with hardly a day off and not an incident to her name, I actually know quite a few people especially those who work in the NHS who all should qualify for a medal.

But I know what you mean in Holland there is I believe a common saying about public service employees " the people who look out of windows"

 

[p51]

Interesting this was still going on with your father's generation, Baron. My Great Grandfather was Scottish and Left handed. He was forced to change to his Right hand but still had amazingly beautiful handwriting (several examples of which I have seen on the back of WW1 Postcards home). However, he emigrated at ten to New Zealand about 1898. My Nana, his daughter, was Left handed and I don't recall her mentioning that she was ever told to use her Right hand. Lucky, as she was completely Left handed!

I was born in 1969 and was in grade school in the 70s and while I didn't have teachers beat me into being right handed, I sure got my share of verbal beatings over it. I had this conversation at some point when i was a kid, I remember it clearly to this day:
Teacher: I see you're trying to use your left hand again. You need to write with your right hand.
Me: Why? You said my handwriting was some of the best in the class.
Teacher: Yeah, but I didn't notice you were using your left hand.
Me: What difference does that make?
Teacher: Uh.... well, it's easier to be right handed.
Me: How? You said I was learning faster than many of the others, so it's easier for me to use the hand I'm using, right?
Teacher: Listen you just need to be right handed.
Me: Why?
Teacher:... (dead silence)
Me: I'm already using my left hand, what difference does it make?
Teacher: It's just easier to write that way.
Me: How? Didn't you just say I was doing okay like this?
Teacher: Look, you really need to use your right hand.
Me: I'll think about it...
My Mom even tried without luck. She couldn't give me a good reason either. She once said that left handed people have their hands pass over what they just wrote and would smear it (which was the only even plausible reason I ever heard) but I always held a pencil or pen well above the paper, so that didn't happen.

I'll go to my grave wondering why anyone cares what hand you use to write with. Oddly, I'm right handed in all other things (and can write right handed, I just chose not to). I also have a lot of artistic skills which most people now attribute to a right brain type. Many artists were left handed.

 

[jamespowers]

There are some, we recently had a local school crossing lady retire after 40 or so years service with hardly a day off and not an incident to her name, I actually know quite a few people especially those who work in the NHS who all should qualify for a medal.

But I know what you mean in Holland there is I believe a common saying about public service employees " the people who look out of windows"

I love it! I'll have to remember that. I know several dozen of those around here.
The problem here is that the public employees who actually work hard get put upon by fellow employees for "trying to make them look bad." I suppose you can work circle around someone who is standing still.

 

[jamespowers]

I was born in 1969 and was in grade school in the 70s and while I didn't have teachers beat me into being right handed, I sure got my share of verbal beatings over it. I had this conversation at some point when i was a kid, I remember it clearly to this day:
Teacher: I see you're trying to use your left hand again. You need to write with your right hand.
Me: Why? You said my handwriting was some of the best in the class.
Teacher: Yeah, but I didn't notice you were using your left hand.
Me: What difference does that make?
Teacher: Uh.... well, it's easier to be right handed.
Me: How? You said I was learning faster than many of the others, so it's easier for me to use the hand I'm using, right?
Teacher: Listen you just need to be right handed.
Me: Why?
Teacher:... (dead silence)
Me: I'm already using my left hand, what difference does it make?
Teacher: It's just easier to write that way.
Me: How? Didn't you just say I was doing okay like this?
Teacher: Look, you really need to use your right hand.
Me: I'll think about it...
My Mom even tried without luck. She couldn't give me a good reason either. She once said that left handed people have their hands pass over what they just wrote and would smear it (which was the only even plausible reason I ever heard) but I always held a pencil or pen well above the paper, so that didn't happen.

I'll go to my grave wondering why anyone cares what hand you use to write with. Oddly, I'm right handed in all other things (and can write right handed, I just chose not to). I also have a lot of artistic skills which most people now attribute to a right brain type. Many artists were left handed.

My mother was left handed and she overwrote as you describe. The funny thing was that you would think she was right handed by the slant that put on the writing. lol lol


I am right handed and all of my other relatives are right handed. I didn't realize what a pain it could be to be left handed until my mother went to buy things for left handed people. From scissors to can openers to guns. Anything with a handle is usually made for right handed people.:eusa_doh: I think that is probably the only reasonable reason to try to be ambidextrous at least if you happen to be left handed.

 

[Edward]

I reached six foot when I was 13, and found myself being "volunteered" for the rugby team.
If any of us tried to skive off, we were sent off with bin bags to pick up rubbish from the grounds.

Out of hours, or instead of games? I'd have happily volunteered for something constructive like that to get out of wasting my time with games!

My mother was left handed and she overwrote as you describe. The funny thing was that you would think she was right handed by the slant that put on the writing. lol lol
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I am right handed and all of my other relatives are right handed. I didn't realize what a pain it could be to be left handed until my mother went to buy things for left handed people. From scissors to can openers to guns. Anything with a handle is usually made for right handed people.:eusa_doh: I think that is probably the only reasonable reason to try to be ambidextrous at least if you happen to be left handed.

We are the last unrecognised minority, as I'm fond of saying. My grandfather had it beaten into him in school to write with his right hand; my Aunt on that side is left handed too, and I don't recall her ever mentioning a problem. I got off relatively lightly - at the age of four, I was regularly cracked over the knuckles by a very old-fashioned pre-school group leader for using my left hand to draw. Thereafter, the worst I had was a craft and design teacher when I was thirteen who openly mocked me for taking an awkward stance to use equipment that was designed exclusively for right handers. They'd never get away with that now (that was about 1988), but he was a widely detested teacher, held in high contempt by everyone so being foolishly mocked by him didn't count in anyone's eyes, really.

The biggest pain I find is with some items (guitars among them - never required a gun), if they are available left handed at all, you do end up paying a no inconsiderable premium for them. Sometimes this is understandable (tooling up for limited runs), other times I begin to suspect that they are playing that up as an excuse to push up the price.

 

[DesertDan]

I am right handed but I play bass left handed, I have encountered such discrimination and disparagement personally. This has made me sympathetic to the trials and tribulations often faced by those who are left handed.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

The problem here is that the public employees who actually work hard get put upon by fellow employees for "trying to make them look bad." I suppose you can work circle around someone who is standing still.

That was also the experience of my Dad when he worked at the GM plant in South Gate back in the '50s. He was constantly hassled by the shop stewards for working too hard. And whenever management admonished the assembly line over the PA about the number of defective units produced by that shift, instead of being chastened and filled with a resolve to do a better job, everybody would start cheering as if their team had won the World Series.