The Deck Jacket thread.

[TartuWolf]

Here's a Buzz Rickson one I got recently.
Love the body length, sleeves could be a bit longer.
Way too much room in the waist and bottom hem (draw strings help in the latter case).
I might commit blasphemy and get it tapered at my tailors.
A bit disappointed with the rather thin (vs my expectations) alpaca/wool liner as well.
Not too warm by itself, but maybe a bit warmer than my leather jackets, hard to say.
So yeah, mixed feelings and future plans regarding this one.
I'd be a lot more confident about tailoring and keeping it if it was khaki and had longer sleeves.
Also what's up with the hanger loops at the armpits?

 

[WolfofStateSt]

Here's a Buzz Rickson one I got recently.
Love the body length, sleeves could be a bit longer.
Way too much room in the waist and bottom hem (draw strings help in the latter case).
I might commit blasphemy and get it tapered at my tailors.
A bit disappointed with the rather thin (vs my expectations) alpaca/wool liner as well.
Not too warm by itself, but maybe a bit warmer than my leather jackets, hard to say.
So yeah, mixed feelings and future plans regarding this one.
I'd be a lot more confident about tailoring and keeping it if it was khaki and had longer sleeves.
Also what's up with the hanger loops at the armpits?
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What size is that? I heard buzz’s deck jackets run large.

 

[Canuck Panda]

I’m 6’3” and 195 lbs and have no experience with Iron Heart’s sizing.

What are people's thoughts on the Heat Straps N-1?

There are only two different cuts/fits, one has wider shoulder paired with narrower body, the other has narrower shoulder paired with wider body, you have to find which one suits you better yourself.

Every brand has both fits, you have to look at their posted dimensions for the particular model number.

Example of wider shoulder narrower body fit (blue) vs narrower shoulder wider body fit (green), sleeve is the same on both,

Example of the wider shoulder and narrow body fit model,

Example of the narrower shoulder wider body fit model,

Compare the size 44's (XXL) numbers and you can see the difference. The wider shoulder version is 2cm wider in the shoulder but 5cm narrower in chest circumference. The narrower shoulder version is 2cm narrower in the shoulder but 5cm wider in chest circumference. Every brand has these two different fits, just look for the numbers. You will like one over the other like I did but only to find out for yourself. Downsizing in the narrower shoulder fits won't work 99% of the time, neither will upsizing the wider shoulder fit, you're either one or the other.

 

[RDS]

Here's a Buzz Rickson one I got recently.
Also what's up with the hanger loops at the armpits?


View attachment 666544

I believe the N-1 Deck jacket was originally designed to be worn with matching trousers. These trousers may have had something like shoulder straps which could then be connected to or threaded through the armpit loops to keep the two items of clothing secure and to create a single overall type of thing.

 

[Jonanah]

I’m 6’3” and 195 lbs and have no experience with Iron Heart’s sizing.

What are people's thoughts on the Heat Straps N-1?

I haven't tried the Heat Straps deck jacket but I have tried their mouton-lined Workhorse v5, which is essentially the same jacket in a different pattern (I'm actually selling it here but it would be too small on you), and it is super warm and absolutely bombproof.

The value proposition for their deck jackets is honestly really strong. They seem to be working with the highest quality materials they can possibly source in the U.S. -- the entire jacket, from materials to construction, is made in the U.S. They use a mouton lining that's on par with Dehen 1920's, with a significantly tougher exterior, for a full $300 less.

 

[WolfofStateSt]

I haven't tried the Heat Straps deck jacket but I have tried their mouton-lined Workhorse v5, which is essentially the same jacket in a different pattern (I'm actually selling it here but it would be too small on you), and it is super warm and absolutely bombproof.

The value proposition for their deck jackets is honestly really strong. They seem to be working with the highest quality materials they can possibly source in the U.S. -- the entire jacket, from materials to construction, is made in the U.S. They use a mouton lining that's on par with Dehen 1920's, with a significantly tougher exterior, for a full $300 less.

Yes. I’ve been waffling between Dehen, Heat Straps, and Iron Heart.

 

[WolfofStateSt]

Yes. I’ve been waffling between Dehen, Heat Straps, and Iron Heart.

Ideally, I also want at least 20% Alpaca in the pile lining blend, but it is what it is.

When I was younger I only ever wanted a leather jacket’s and peacoats , but for some reason now that I have two of each, I gave my Schott leather jacket to my friend, there is something alluring about the Deck Jacket. I couldn't tell you what.

 

[TartuWolf]

What size is that? I heard buzz’s deck jackets run large.

It's a 36.
I wouldn't say that it runs large in the upper body.
The high armpits make it feel even rather snug upstairs.
The lower body (waist and bottom hem) - sure, runs large, but I think it's more related to the typical N1 cut which is mostly a potato sack cut if I'm not mistaken.
Funny how this jacket in this size had wildly different measurements in various auctions. For example Sleeves from 56 to 62cm or back from 60 to 67cm. Part of it must be due to different styles of measuring, but still, damn.. I picked the one that seems to be in the best condition and had the best (hypothetically) measurements.

 

[CatsCan]

So yeah, mixed feelings and future plans regarding this one.
I'd be a lot more confident about tailoring and keeping it if it was khaki and had longer sleeves.
Also what's up with the hanger loops at the armpits?

I wouldn't alter it if I were you. I would get rid of it and try another make. You will never be happy with it anyway. Buzz Rickson can be boxy. I am surprised to see this on their blue one. The blue used to run rather slim compared to the khaki one.

For anyone with a slim stature Bronson seems to fit better. Don't even think about Pike Brothers, they will fit even worse.

I agree that these jackets are overrated for warmth, I guess it's because people find them warm who don't live in northern Europe but in Southern California where it can get chilly but nothing compared to over here.

RDS has it correct, the loops were thought to be attachment points for the N-1 bib but since nobody really used them, the were abandoned in later versions.

 

[CatsCan]

Isn’t an N-1 always going to be warmer than an A2?

I can only speak about the original A-2 Deck Jacket and some N-1 repros I had/have. My original vintage A-2 is not as warm as my N-1 repros. It has a thinner shell fabric and a thinner "pile", nothing more than if you'd wear a polyester fleece under a jeans jacket. But this is actually a good thing for me as I can easily layer a wool sweater underneath while my N-1s (except the Pike Bros) are not roomy enough for much layering with a wool knit sweater (if they were, they would be too big on me without when worn a sweater). In really cold weather I rather pick my A-2 and layer a sweater under it than I would pick any of my N-1s.
When I am physically active out in the woods, my Pike Brothers N-1 with a light longsleeve or flannel is perfectly enough even below freezing because this jacket has a very thick/heavy and dense shell fabric and room enough for air to be trapped and warmed up. It is also roomy enough for layering a wool sweater (I talk about Norwegian wool sweaters). I had the sleeves slimmed down a lot to make it look better on me.

 

[WolfofStateSt]

I can only speak about the original A-2 Deck Jacket and some N-1 repros I had/have. My original vintage A-2 is not as warm as my N-1 repros. It has a thinner shell fabric and a thinner "pile", nothing more than if you'd wear a polyester fleece under a jeans jacket. But this is actually a good thing for me as I can easily layer a wool sweater underneath while my N-1s (except the Pike Bros) are not roomy enough for much layering with a wool knit sweater (if they were, they would be too big on me without when worn a sweater). In really cold weather I rather pick my A-2 and layer a sweater under it than I would pick any of my N-1s.
When I am physically active out in the woods, my Pike Brothers N-1 with a light longsleeve or flannel is perfectly enough even below freezing because this jacket has a very thick/heavy and dense shell fabric and room enough for air to be trapped and warmed up. It is also roomy enough for layering a wool sweater (I talk about Norwegian wool sweaters). I had the sleeves slimmed down a lot to make it look better on me.

It makes perfect sense. Personally, I’ll take an N-1 because it looks cooler, and if I had to choose a nylon jacket, it would always be an MA-1.

 

[WolfofStateSt]

I’m really leaning Iron Heart. Is there any argument for Dehen 1920 or Heat Straps over them?

 

[TartuWolf]

I wouldn't alter it if I were you. I would get rid of it and try another make. You will never be happy with it anyway. Buzz Rickson can be boxy. I am surprised to see this on their blue one. The blue used to run rather slim compared to the khaki one.

For anyone with a slim stature Bronson seems to fit better. Don't even think about Pike Brothers, they will fit even worse.

The XS Pike Brothers one I had was too tight in the shoulders and pits, but otherwise had a nice taper to it. That's why I think an S might work out quite well, assuming the pattern is similar. On the other hand it might have been an older model with a different pattern as, for example, the body length was much shorter than their current charts.

To your knowledge: what maker/repro would have the most taper / slimmest waist? Ideally I'd like something like 17" shoulder, 20.5" pit, 17.5" waist and hem, 23.75" back, 24.75" sleeves.
I hope Marc doesn't see this or he will give me shit again for thinking in terms of measurements...

 

[WolfofStateSt]

The XS Pike Brothers one I had was too tight in the shoulders and pits, but otherwise had a nice taper to it. That's why I think an S might work out quite well, assuming the pattern is similar. On the other hand it might have been an older model with a different pattern as, for example, the body length was much shorter than their current charts.

To your knowledge: what maker/repro would have the most taper / slimmest waist? Ideally I'd like something like 17" shoulder, 20.5" pit, 17.5" waist and hem, 23.75" back, 24.75" sleeves.
I hope Marc doesn't see this or he will give me shit again for thinking in terms of measurements...

Iron Heart XXL?

 

[mumpy]

The XS Pike Brothers one I had was too tight in the shoulders and pits, but otherwise had a nice taper to it. That's why I think an S might work out quite well, assuming the pattern is similar. On the other hand it might have been an older model with a different pattern as, for example, the body length was much shorter than their current charts.

To your knowledge: what maker/repro would have the most taper / slimmest waist? Ideally I'd like something like 17" shoulder, 20.5" pit, 17.5" waist and hem, 23.75" back, 24.75" sleeves.
I hope Marc doesn't see this or he will give me shit again for thinking in terms of measurements...

The best pattern and alpaca I had was on a Freewheelers N-1. Alpaca was super thick and soft, not comparable at all to other makers I have tried.

 

[TartuWolf]

Iron Heart XXL?

No?

 

[mumpy]

@TartuWolf off topic but I think given your style a proper ma-1 would suit you very well i think

 

[MrProper]

thinking in terms of measurements

I don't see anything wrong with that ;-) I do the same.

 

[CatsCan]

Somwhere in this forum I had done a pattern comparison between originals and some of the most common replica brands, I have to search if I can find it. Maybe this can help to find out who is generally producing the pattern you are looking for.

 

[CatsCan]

Here it is. It's not showing all different sizes and not all brands, but you can get some impressions on the proportions.
First shown are originals, measurements taken from japanese collectors and sellers. Following are replica brands.
You can see, how Pike Brothers for example are differing, they shorten the torso, make the sleeves longer (maybe for the motorbike rider crowd).. here is what I wrote for better understanding of these measurements:

"After I had done quite some research to find out why the sizing of N-1 Jackets is sometimes a task on it's own and why modern replicas can look so much different on us than what we use to see in old pictures from Navy personnel wearing these jackets, I thought I'd share some insights here.

Following are measurements of a lot of vintage N-1s (only the 1940s) I picked from various sources on the web. Most are taken from japanese archives (like mushroom), where they took exact measurements from every single piece, some were deadstock or at least mint, many unwashed, used but in very good condition.

Next are measurements from some modern replica brands. Note that Pike Brothers, Bronson and Buzz Rickson are taken from their official size charts. RMC and Freewheelers are taken from re-sellers, that gave measurements for the availlable single item.
It is evident, that vintage N-1s follow a different pattern in their sizing, e.g. shoulder width and chest width are not changing proportionally, but relatively. Some brands follow this pattern, like Bronson, Buzz Rickson, Freewheelers. Some are going their own route (RMC, Pike Brothers), Pike Brothers being on the extreme side. Pike Brothers just go up in steps with the same spacing (shoulders 4 cm per size up, chest 4 cm per size up, considering a bigger difference between chest and shoulders than on most originals and other brands, it is really quite a bit off from all others and all vintage originals).

As a good example, if you compare Pike Brothers with Originals, most originals in middle sizes like 40 have roughly a chest to shoulder difference of 10 cm or less. Pike has a difference of 14 cm ! Originals are longer proportionally while Pike Brothers is short. This is why their proportions are off for slender builds like me (and Breezer). They have a barrel fit, broad and short. I have begun to modify one of my PB's N-1s (reducing the sleeve, tapering the sleeve (successfully done), reducing chest width (yet to be done), changing the colour (successfully done with gray overdye), now comes the liner part, I will change it for 100% Alpaca (found a good source, quite cheap, old ladies coat, very nice quality).

Note that I filled in all numbers as I found them, say: most are in cm, some are in inches, some are given in inches as well as in cm. It was a lot of work, folks, but it kind of gave me peace of mind.
I made some .jpgs from the charts I created. For better comparison I put all measurements in the same order: shoulders, chest, sleeve, back length. Back length is almost always measured without collar. Sleeve is almost always measured from shoulder seam to cuff. Chest is pit to pit. Note that Bronson gives the chest circumference, for better comparison just divide by 2.

Hope this helps to understand the differences in sizing and helps to find out which brand is closer to the originals proportionally and which brand is re-designed for a different fit."

Now the measurements:

Vintage Original N-1s:

Replica brands:

Happy Holidays for all of you!

Cats