The Real McCoy's A-2 leather jacket sizing advice

[wellmadeitementhousiast]

I've been searching online for days now but I cannot find a definitive answer to my question. The advice being thrown around is all over the place which is why I've decided to make this dedicated post with my details.

I am interested in getting an RMC A-2 jacket soon(ish). Since this is a big purchase and I will most probably not be able to return it, I want to make sure I pick the correct size.

I have a short, muscular (athletic) build. My height is 165cm and my upper body is, for lack of better term, thick. My chest measures 111-113cm with a sweatshirt on and flexed (flared lats). I measured this way to make sure I have enough wiggle room and to allow room for more future growth. Notably, my arms measure 41-43cm. This last bit is important because the last jacket I bought, a Freewheelers Type II denim jacket in size 40, ended up killing me in the armholes. I can wear that only with a t-shirt. Anything more and I get stuck in. Literally. (The chest and shoulder fit of that jacket is spot on, however.)

Additionally, I own a Real McCoy's N1 Deck Jacket in size 40. That jacket fits beautifully and it's exactly how I want the A-2 to fit: very comfortable with a t-shirt and wearable with a hoody/sweatshirt/flannel shirt.

This probably won't be of much help but the only other jacket I own is a Freewheelers aviation jacket called "Wind Master" in size 40. That, too, fits me like a glove (with a t-shirt only, but I wouldn't want to layer up anyway.)

My t-shirts oscillate between medium (38) and large (40). Some examples:
Warehouse 4601: Medium (perfect)
Samurai Inlay tee: Large (relaxed)
RMC ringer tee: Medium (fits tight in the arms, almost cuts circulation in my biceps; but fits perfectly in chest/shoulder areas)
Merz b. 215: Large (fits ok, but a little tight after 2 years' of washes)
Freewheelers t-shirts: Medium (fit perfectly), Large (a bit more relaxed)
Samurai 2-pack: Medium (fit perfectly)
Buzz Rickson's 14oz sweatshirt: Large (relaxed)

All the above I mentioned to give an indication on what restricts me and what is comfortable. Different sizing and patterns result in different fits for different builds. It's my hope that someone more experienced understands what fits me well currently and knows how an RMC A-2 fits and gives me advice while comparing this information.

What I'm looking for in terms of fit in the A-2 is to sit comfortably on me and not restrict my movements. I wish to wear a very light hoody or flannel shirt underneath, but 90% of the time I will be with just a t-shirt. Due to my short height I'd also not like to needlessly size up and have a jacket that's too long in overall length and sleeves.

I would appreciate any and all advice! If you need more information or photos of fits, let me know.

 

[Brettafett]

Have to ask, with a number of more accurate/ authentic top end flight jacket makers, why a Real McCoy's?

Based on your dims, you'd best do with a custom.
165 says size 38 to 40 lengths
111-113 is around 44", general rule for an A-2 (WWII patterns and assuming average body type) would be to size one up from that, so 46. Depending on the contract. At least.
You are going to struggle to find an off the shelf A-2 that will work for you.

IF it's an A-2 you want, I'd also be particular with the contract/ pattern. Some are more boxy, some more generous, some downright restrictive. Some have small arm holes, some larger, some small neck holes, some larger, I could go on...
A good resource is on the VLJ, they have a lot of info on flight jackets, particularly the A-2 & USN types.
Also, peruse the Goodwear website. A number of different A-2s contracts are listed there with descriptions of fit. Very helpful.
As has been said many times, these jackets were designed for young chaps in their prime for tight restricted cockpits.

You stated A-2, I get it. But why not go with a G-1 type?
Arguably a lot more comfy and practical to actually wear. That bi-swing back opens it all up.
Yes, they have mouton fur collars, but the rayon lining is cooler than the A-2s cotton, so one can debate the offset.
One can still get very decent originals at reasonable prices.
Many black label G-1s (60s to 70s) can be rather boxy/ sort, which could work for your dims very well.

Lastly, the happy medium. An AN-J-3?
Best of the USN and the A-2, all the benefits of the USN type, but with the leather collar.

 

[wellmadeitementhousiast]

Have to ask, with a number of more accurate/ authentic top end flight jacket makers, why a Real McCoy's?

Based on your dims, you'd best do with a custom.
165 says size 38 to 40 lengths
111-113 is around 44", general rule for an A-2 (WWII patterns and assuming average body type) would be to size one up from that, so 46. Depending on the contract. At least.
You are going to struggle to find an off the shelf A-2 that will work for you.

IF it's an A-2 you want, I'd also be particular with the contract/ pattern. Some are more boxy, some more generous, some downright restrictive. Some have small arm holes, some larger, some small neck holes, some larger, I could go on...
A good resource is on the VLJ, they have a lot of info on flight jackets, particularly the A-2 & USN types.
Also, peruse the Goodwear website. A number of different A-2s contracts are listed there with descriptions of fit. Very helpful.
As has been said many times, these jackets were designed for young chaps in their prime for tight restricted cockpits.

You stated A-2, I get it. But why not go with a G-1 type?
Arguably a lot more comfy and practical to actually wear. That bi-swing back opens it all up.
Yes, they have mouton fur collars, but the rayon lining is cooler than the A-2s cotton, so one can debate the offset.
One can still get very decent originals at reasonable prices.
Many black label G-1s (60s to 70s) can be rather boxy/ sort, which could work for your dims very well.

Lastly, the happy medium. An AN-J-3?
Best of the USN and the A-2, all the benefits of the USN type, but with the leather collar.

Thank you for your detailed reply! To answer your questions and continue the conversation:

1) The latest Roughwear A-2 RMC uses a leather I've never seen on an A-2 before. I will not pretend to be an expert, as I have no other leather jackets, but, based on looks alone, it's the most appealing A-2 I've seen. I don't care about accuracy or different contracts. I just look at a jacket and ask if I like it. For example, the Buzz Rickson's Roughwear is comically shiny for me. I don't know how it changes over time but based on looks alone I don't like it. Similarly, ELC is too chocolatey. So, in short: the leather draws me to RMC (colour, grain, texture).

2) I'm not dead set on an A-2 so I'll take a closer look at the G-1. I actually briefly considered it in the past but the cleaner look of the A-2 won me over. And as I'm writing this, yeah, that "action back" seems that it will do the trick, potentially. Do you know the different quirks of the Japanese makers regarding the G-1? RMC vs Rainbow Country, for example? Which are shorter or longer, slimmer or boxier etc? Their measurements are all over the place on different sites.
(Also, to answer the question before it's asked: I like military related stuff to be made in Japan as a rule. I can elaborate if needed, but for now I'm only considering Japanese made leather military jackets. I might make an exception for ELC, I just cannot find a leather I like from them.)

3) Are there any custom makers that don't take 6+ months to create a jacket like this to your knowledge?

 

[tamoko]

Flight Jackets RMC wich I own or owned pretty close to US sz for me 44 or if I looks for some more room 46. Best way if you make measurements from jacket at home wich fit best for you and then compare to jacket on internet.
Shoulder Chest most important.

 

[Bfd70]

@Brettafett nailed it. Saying “a2” doesn’t work. Too many patterns. You may love rmc leather but if their pattern doesn’t match your build the leather type is irrelevant. Thurstonbros has a number of A2s ready to sell

 

[wellmadeitementhousiast]

Where are you based, country?

The thing with an A-2, particularly as regards pattern (fit) and leather, is that it can look cool, but be an atrocious fit. Restrictive. Unwearable. It could feel like an uber expensive straight-jacket!
High arm holes, tight shoulders, small neck hole, where the zip comes up close to the chin… Lifting arms causes the sleeves to ride up to ones elbows, etc… Not fun.

Thats why you get an A-2 from the right people.
An A-2 made to correct patterns, with more historically correct materials, fits and wears like a second skin. Extremely comfortable.
Thats also why pattern (contract type) is important. Some patterns are more forgiving. Even if the leathers on the beefier side, the jacket can still be worn comfortably.

It's not aways the case, but many modern repro makers use quite a solid leather. It can be quite unforgiving.
Often on the beefier side with very little ‘give’, have 0 character, sometimes have quite a sheen and odd hues.
Nothing like WWII A-2s.
Sure… Not always the case.
Some of the older RM, The Few and BR A-2s look amazing years down the line.
Depends on the jacket in question, which is why one needs to inspect them and try on.

Depends also on where you are.
It would be a good exercise for example to try an Eastman (stock jackets can be retuned) and compare with the RM jacket. Then you'll be able to assess the differences first hand.

Eastman have a number of different options for their leathers. They are not all the same colour.
Seal and russet horsehide, timeworn finish, etc. And the hues vary with batches of leather available.
Plus lots of different contracts/patterns will appeal to different fit/ body types.

Aeroleather also, seal & russet horsehide & goatskin.
But careful of the patterns they offer. I dont think they’d work for you.
However, Aero make an AN-J-3 (A-2 + USN hybrid) and Im sure they would be able to work out the best size/ fit for you. Thurston also. AN-J-3
Goatskin, especially if its thinner & softer, makes for a very comfy flight jacket.

All the above can send you leather samples.

End of the day, if you like the look of the jacket and as you’ve said, you’re not bothered on WWII authenticity or accuracy, then go for it. Just make sure you are able to return it without fuss.
And be very careful of importing these expensive jackets.

Send a link of the jacket you’re looking at.

Wow, I did not expect such an answer but it was exactly the kind of nuanced advice I needed. Thank you.

The jacket is this. I am based in Europe.

Could you recommend leathers (from certain makers or specific jackets) that are matte or end up matte? I hate shiny jackets and it's what puts me off most A-2s. And, of course, what draws me to others. This could be a start to then delve more into their patterns and fit.

 

[marker2037]

Since you’re in Europe, I would also look at Bill Kelso. They have lots of jacket contract styles to choose from and their horsehide leather is not shiny, very matte like you want, plus you get to get custom measurements if you want, something like you won’t get with RMC. The RMC certainly does look nice, but since you’re such a unique body shape, I would steer clear as Japanese makers usually have much slimmer body designs.

Here is a Kelso that looks similar to what you want.


https://billkelsomfg.com/shop/product/cable-10008/

I myself recently put a deposit down for an A-2 and after shopping around a lot, settled on Good Wear, but that’s me. I could have also easily gone with Kelso and do have an A-1 ordered with them via Papa Nui.

 

[wellmadeitementhousiast]

Since you’re in Europe, I would also look at Bill Kelso. They have lots of jacket contract styles to choose from and their horsehide leather is not shiny, very matte like you want, plus you get to get custom measurements if you want, something like you won’t get with RMC. The RMC certainly does look nice, but since you’re such a unique body shape, I would steer clear as Japanese makers usually have much slimmer body designs.

Here is a Kelso that looks similar to what you want.


https://billkelsomfg.com/shop/product/cable-10008/

I myself recently put a deposit down for an A-2 and after shopping around a lot, settled on Good Wear, but that’s me. I could have also easily gone with Kelso and do have an A-1 ordered with them via Papa Nui.

I don't want to rush and say "this is the answer", but f*** me! I don't know why I didn't look at Kelso before. I heard about him, even knew about that specific Papa Nui collaboration (from Papa himself), but never occurred to me to take a deeper look at his offerings.

I guess the only thing left to ask is: as far as construction quality goes, is he among the very best? Because the pricing is almost half the RMC and even still less than a Thedi. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to pay a lot for something to feel good, I'm just asking to get a feel for the value I will be (potentially) getting.

And many thanks for the recommendation!

 

[marker2037]

I don't want to rush and say "this is the answer", but f*** me! I don't know why I didn't look at Kelso before. I heard about him, even knew about that specific Papa Nui collaboration (from Papa himself), but never occurred to me to take a deeper look at his offerings.

I guess the only thing left to ask is: as far as construction quality goes, is he among the very best? Because the pricing is almost half the RMC and even still less than a Thedi. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to pay a lot for something to feel good, I'm just asking to get a feel for the value I will be (potentially) getting.

And many thanks for the recommendation!

I own a Relic Hunter Indy jacket from them, my only Kelso I have owned or handled, but I can honestly say it’s top notch quality from everything to the leather, construction, pattern, etc. it’s the best Indy jacket I own and one of my favorites jackets period. I cannot speak for an A-2, but I have also heard many good things and did take the plunge for the A-1 Hell Diver so I’m excited for that.

As with any jacket maker though, make sure you know the dimensions of what you really want before ordering.

 

[jacketjunkie]

You need a size 44-46 in the chest, but you are way shorter than the average size 44-46. In other words, a size 44-46, regardless of maker or contract will be way too long in body and sleeves for you. Either you mentally prepare for buying a 2000 USD jacket and then have it chopped up by a local tailor and thereby reduce resale value to zero or you go custom to start with.. which might actually come cheaper and at less risk of potential **** ups..

 

[mcnuonuo]

For me:

175cm, 73kg

Size 38 to 40 in most items.

RMC N1: 38, Roughwear A2: 38
Buzz Rickson: everything I own is 38 or Medium

T-shirts usually measure at 40 inches (not skin tight)

The A2 is definitely a bit tighter than the n1 on the chest, so you'll need to size up from 40 definitely. The rougher model is a bit more relaxed compared to RMC's house model but it's still pretty TTS in terms of chests.



I've always wanted to try the Goodyear custom orders, I don't know how it works, but it sounds like you have some room of changes there.


If you are keen on RMC, I ordered mine from clutch cafe back in the days and they sent me multiple A2 models and let me return one. Not sure how it can work with the tariffs but you can always ask.