So trivial, yet it really ticks you off.

[vitanola]

Fire curtain at the abandoned National Theatre in Detroit. I would imagine this to be the very definition of "friable asbestos." We didn't have such a curtain in our place, but most bigger theatres with full stages were required to have them, and they had to be shown to the audience at least once per show.

The purpose of showing the curtain to the audience was to prevent the sort of panic which occurred during the infamous Iroquois Theater fire. In addition, the Iroquois, while equipped with an "Asbestos" curtain of inferior construction, did not regularly test the operation of this curtain. During the fire its descent was blocked by an ill placed lamp reflector, allowing flames and smoke to billow out into the auditorium.

 

[belfastboy]

The technician probably looked for areas which might have been patched, for they would be most likely to be "hot". If they were indeed "hot", then that would suggest that more extensive testing was required.

The technician was remiss, however, in not explaining all of this to you. That explanation is part of the job. It reassures the property owner that he is getting value, and can educate the property owner about possible future hazards.

One of my work mantras is; "as important as it is to be thorough we must in addition appear to be thorough" so yes the technician was remiss in not explaining his procedure.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I read some inspectors' reports on the Iroquois fire back when I took my current job -- everybody who manages any kind of public auditorium ought to be aware of it. One thing that really stuck out for me was that the "asbestos curtain" was primarily wood pulp. "It was not of the best quality" was the laconic assessment of one of the inspectors.

We had a visit from the State Fire Marshal this week and went thru a pretty rigorous safety inspection. The People In The Other Office sometimes give me a hard time because I'm so militant about enforcing the fire safety laws, but there is a very very good reason why they exist. Every new director that comes in here gets a lecture from me about the Iroquois fire.

 

[Zombie_61]

One of my work mantras is; "as important as it is to be thorough we must in addition appear to be thorough" so yes the technician was remiss in not explaining his procedure.

I've lost count of the number of people I've worked with over the years who reversed that mantra and put far more emphasis on appearing to be thorough while not actually being anything of the sort.

 

[ChiTownScion]

I read some inspectors' reports on the Iroquois fire back when I took my current job -- everybody who manages any kind of public auditorium ought to be aware of it. One thing that really stuck out for me was that the "asbestos curtain" was primarily wood pulp. "It was not of the best quality" was the laconic assessment of one of the inspectors.

We had a visit from the State Fire Marshal this week and went thru a pretty rigorous safety inspection. The People In The Other Office sometimes give me a hard time because I'm so militant about enforcing the fire safety laws, but there is a very very good reason why they exist. Every new director that comes in here gets a lecture from me about the Iroquois fire.

As a footnote: my great grandfather, a teamster at the time (the horse driving type, not the Jimmy Hoffa type), was pressed into service and recovered bodies from that fire. Current location of the Iroquois is an office building where I worked for a couple months in the 90's.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I work for a consulting engineering firm that specializes in indoor air quality and hazardous materials inspections. We do HazMat inspections regularly for renovations and tear downs. We are in Canada so the comparison is not exact but the $900 fee does not seem out of line. His performance was perhaps perfunctory and could/should have done a more professional job in discerning where he sampled. But having said that there are specific areas, materials that are likely ACM (asbestos carrying materials). If the standards are similar for NY state as they are here, he as a licenced inspector complied with the standards/protocol. Why would he jeopardize his professional standing for the sake of a few dollars cost to sample?. I would suggest that if the 3 samples came back negative there is a very very good chance your home is safe to renovate. If they had found ACM, remediation is extremely expensive and you may have avoided upwards of an additional $10K in costs. Remember the inspection company incurs, state licensing fees, professional registration fees, errors/ommissions/liability insurance and the lab fees to analyse the samples.

If you can get a licensed engineering/environmental consulting firm to do anything for less than $1,000, you're getting a bargain. I'm guessing they specialize in that sort of thing and have a set fee for this type of residential inspection where they can make a few bucks in volume. But for general environmental engineering/consulting work, most wouldn't touch any job for only $900. It's just not worth their time.

As for sampling, I'd agree (18+ years as an environmental consultant) that what looks random may have a purpose, or even that in a lot of cases random is equally good or better.

 

[HudsonHawk]

There are many types of asbestos, not all equally hazardous. Most asbestos used (90% ?) is chrysotile, not considered to be hazardous for low level exposure. Amphibole is the type that is the real danger, I don't know where or what it was used for.

Chrysotile is what's classified as "serpentine" asbestos. It was used in about 95% of the applications around the world. And it's not that it's not hazardous, it's that some studies suggest it takes a longer exposure period. Other studies contradict that and say that chrysotile can be just as carcinogenic. It's probably prudent to treat chrysotile with the same level of respect as any other type.

All other forms of commercial asbestos (amosite, crocidoliite, tremolite, anthophyllite, and actinolite) are called amphibole asbestos. These were used for much of the same applications, but on a much smaller scale, and possibly geographically limited to where they were mined. For example, anthophyllite was mined in Finland and almost exclusive to northern Europe.

 

[KILO NOVEMBER]

Back to the trivial. Here's one that's been bugging me for years.

Walking.

In North America, we drive on the right side of the road. We walk all over the sidewalk. Being the sort of person I am, I always walk on the right side of the sidewalk, as far to the right as I can get. Comes now another pedestrian toward me. This one walking the opposite direction, but on (from his perspective) the LEFT side of the sidewalk. Now we have to silently negotiate who steps right or left. For heaven's sake people! Keep it simple! Drive on the right, walk on the right!

Then there is the group of four or five walking abreast. If they are in front of you walking slowly and you want to pass them, you have to wait until there isn't someone coming the opposite direction then practically trot to get around the group.

Finally, there is the related issue of doors. Most commercial buildings have double doors. By this time, you can guess which door I always take. An annoyingly large proportion of the population takes the door on it's left. This happened last week. I was going to lunch at the Panera near my office. As I approach the door, a young woman who is about to exit the Panera seeing me approach suddenly switches from the door on her right to the door on her left (the one I had intended to use to enter). So I switch to the door on my left.

This apparently offended the woman, who asked in a peeved tone why we couldn't both use the same door.

I refrained from asking if she was sick the day when they explained in science class that two objects can't occupy the same space at the same time.

 

[Edward]

Based on your description, I assume you're referring to public transportation? I've never been bused to school so I don't know all of the specifics, but here in the U.S. (or at least in this part of southern California) most, if not all, of the school districts have their own fleets of buses. These buses drive a specific route every school day, picking up the students and delivering them to their respective schools in the morning, and delivering them back to their neighborhoods after school. I assume this is all paid for from a percentage of the local "school" taxes and parents don't pay extra for this service, but I don't really know.

Yes. London's public transport system, for all its flaws, is still great; I've lived here eighteen years now and never had any reason to even dream of running a car (money pit!) - 24/7 public transport on my doorstep. The only time I've had to walk home for lack of transport service (as opposed to the occasional strike, and personal preference about crossing picket lines) was early on Christmas day 2015 after we chose to go to Midnight Mass in St Paul's - it was a lovely, crisp night and a great walk. I'm looking at getting myself a motorcycle next year, but onlyh as a hobby - I have no need of private transport here. The school age kids are given free use of the busses (but not the tube, afaik; seems a fair compromise). I've got no real objection to that as a rule, but so many of them now seem to hop on the bus for even the shortest of walks, over crowding busy services for everybody else. I'm no fan of the health-fascism being used to bully kids into taking the "healthy" option all the time these days, but I wsih sometimes they'd take the quicker, short walk than taking the bus when it's busy, leaving more seats and space for those less able.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Finally, there is the related issue of doors. Most commercial buildings have double doors. By this time, you can guess which door I always take. An annoyingly large proportion of the population takes the door on it's left. This happened last week. I was going to lunch at the Panera near my office. As I approach the door, a young woman who is about to exit the Panera seeing me approach suddenly switches from the door on her right to the door on her left (the one I had intended to use to enter). So I switch to the door on my left.

This apparently offended the woman, who asked in a peeved tone why we couldn't both use the same door.

I refrained from asking if she was sick the day when they explained in science class that two objects can't occupy the same space at the same time.

We have double doors at the front of the theatre, but hard experience has taught us that the only way to effectively keep chislers from slipping in without a ticket is by only opening one door, forcing people to enter in a single file. (There are, of course, crash bars that allow both doors to be freely used for exiting.) For many years, we used the left-hand door as the entrance, because the pattern of airflow on Main Street is such that if you open the right-hand door a gust of wind will blast into the lobby, scattering flyers, schedules, and other paraphernalia all over the place, not to mention hitting the ticket-taker right in the face. We had trained our regulars to know that this was the correct door to use, and all went smoothly for years and years.

And then some friend of somebody on our board reported that she had reached for the wrong door, and "felt embarassed" when it didn't open and she had to use the other one. Our new director was galvanized into action, and I was told forthwith that we had to use the right-hand door instead of the left. I protested, on grounds of wind and past precedent, but what's a decade of experience stacked up against a spleeny friend of a board member? So now, every icy winter night, the right hand door opens, frigid blasts of arctic air scatter papers all over the lobby, and I catch a chill. And every night, even a year and a half later, more than half the people who enter reach for the left hand door first.

They call a "board" a "board" because its main purpose is to beat workers over the head.

 

[Fading Fast]

⇧ I am becoming more and more convinced that your local gov't and your theater board are three standard deviations removed from the norm (and not in a good way), but since they are your day-to-day experience, I'd have the same view of boards and gov't that you do if I was living through it.

I've worked with many boards in my life and some approached the stupidity of yours and all of them - every single one of them - are too bureaucratic and CYA driven, but most aren't as bad as yours and some, with a little understanding of how to approach and engage them, actually want to do the right thing and can be helpful to the business.

Years ago, I was asked to run a new issue business (we'd bring new investment funds to the market) and needed board approval for each deal, which, when I took over the business, was a God awful experience. The board was antagonistic and clearly didn't want to approve the funds. After a few months of this - and as I began to understand the issues betters - I set up one-on-one meetings with every board member.

I asked each one to tell me every concern they had - what I could do to help them with the issues they had, etc. And then I both got back to each one individually to answer their questions and, more importantly, work with them to put a process in place based on their wishes for approving new issues. It was a ridiculous amount of work (months of crazy back and forth and sign-off, etc,.) - but it addressed most of their issues (some of which were legitimate / some where just pet peeves) and it built trust between the board members and me.

It made the process 1000 times better and my life 10,000 times better. I did that with several boards and had varying degrees of success, but in all but one, things did improve. In the end, it was that trust - they knew who I was, that my word was good, that my opinion represent real experience and that I would tell them the good AND the bad and that I tried to understand their concerns - that made the experience better. In the best examples, the board would say, well, we trust you, do it that way - some of the times.

That said, I have no doubt you've done all the right things and just have that one-off truly horrible board (and local gov't). I mentioned this, indirectly, in another post: you could be running a large part of the world or, at minimum, you could be contributing much more to a charity or business with your skills, experience, work ethic, etc., - and have it appreciated and respected. To do that though, and my guess is you'd never do this 'cause of the kids and your connection to the community, you'd probably have to move to find a better situation.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think part of it is just the nature of a small town. You've got a much more shallow pool from which to draw, and you can't be as selective who gets chosen. Basically, if you have money or know somebody who has money, you can get onto any board or council or committee around here, whether you're in any other way qualified to be there or not. The cream, alas, does not rise to the top.

As far as my own situation goes, it all comes down to that old joke with the punchiline "What?? And get out of show business???"

 

[Trenchfriend]

@LizzieMaine
We live both in small-towns, with nearly the same population. Your town with a coast, my town with thuringian woods for hiking. Are there people at your town, which got the feel, that tourism-development would be a good thing, but isn't really wanted by politics, too?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Tourism is pretty much all we have left now. Up until the 1980s, this was a town built around fish processing and light manufacturing -- we had several sardine canneries, a clothing factory, various metal-working and metal-stamping plants, a precision-parts factory, and on and on. Nearly all of that was destroyed by globalization in the '80s and '90s -- there's a snowplow factory and some metal-fabrication places devoted to the marine business, but that's about it.

The tourist trade revolves around art -- we have thirty-seven art galleries at last count, clustered around two art museums. That's a little too much art for a town of seven thousand people, if you ask me, but nobody ever does. Our popuation balloons with summer people , and then when they all go home for the winter, half the town shuts down until they come back. It's very depressing. Politically, the pro-tourism crowd basically runs everything from the city council on down, and everyone else is expected to smile and fall in line.

I do my song and dance for the tourists as much as anyone -- putting on the dialect, acting the role of the quaint New England character -- but I'm in show business and can justify it to myself that way: I'm a performer playing a part. But there's only so much shuffle-and-grin anyone can do before they want to go on a rampage. The tourism-uber-alles crowd talks about how much "nicer" everything is now, but I'll take the grittiness and the griminess we used to have any day of the week over the Disneyfied clown show we've been forced to become.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

That more people know this song from a damn video game than in its originality.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I've lost count of the number of people I've worked with over the years who reversed that mantra and put far more emphasis on appearing to be thorough while not actually being anything of the sort.

Sounds like politicians and the government where it's far better to look like you're doing something than it is to accomplish something because if you do it often means less priority and a smaller budget next fiscal year or even being out of a job.

 

[vitanola]

That more people know this song from a damn video game than in its originality.

I first heard it on a etched label Zonophone disc which I found when I was about 7.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I got a handful of the "Presidential Dollar Coins" in the till tonight, and aside from the annoyance of dealing with them, I am struck by how utterly, ineffably, and epically ugly they are. I'm embarrassed even to handle such cheap-looking, shoddy designs that look like something handed out to kids at a Shell station in 1967. Chucky Cheese tokens are more attractive.

 

[tonyb]

Tourism is pretty much all we have left now. Up until the 1980s, this was a town built around fish processing and light manufacturing -- we had several sardine canneries, a clothing factory, various metal-working and metal-stamping plants, a precision-parts factory, and on and on. Nearly all of that was destroyed by globalization in the '80s and '90s -- there's a snowplow factory and some metal-fabrication places devoted to the marine business, but that's about it.

The tourist trade revolves around art -- we have thirty-seven art galleries at last count, clustered around two art museums. That's a little too much art for a town of seven thousand people, if you ask me, but nobody ever does. Our popuation balloons with summer people , and then when they all go home for the winter, half the town shuts down until they come back. It's very depressing. Politically, the pro-tourism crowd basically runs everything from the city council on down, and everyone else is expected to smile and fall in line.

I do my song and dance for the tourists as much as anyone -- putting on the dialect, acting the role of the quaint New England character -- but I'm in show business and can justify it to myself that way: I'm a performer playing a part. But there's only so much shuffle-and-grin anyone can do before they want to go on a rampage. The tourism-uber-alles crowd talks about how much "nicer" everything is now, but I'll take the grittiness and the griminess we used to have any day of the week over the Disneyfied clown show we've been forced to become.

Thirty-seven galleries? Sheesh! I just can't imagine how that market, tourist-heavy as it is, could support even a small fraction of that.

The perhaps unfair rap on art galleries used to be that they were rarely profitable pastimes for rich women who fancied themselves important players in the "scene." We had a handful of those in Seattle BITD.

Gotta wonder how much of that is going on in your little gallery-drenched burg. How many of those gallery operators actually reside there full time? I suspect that many hire low-wage locals to tend to the day-to-day operations, and perhaps show up themselves on weekends and openings. Do many of these galleries bear their owners' names?

 

[LizzieMaine]

There are a few "name" artists with galleries -- one of them died last year after being bitten by a tick, which is a hazard if you live here -- but most of them have generically nautical names -- Harbor this, Coastal that, la de dah, you get the idea -- or inscrutable hip-edgy black-turtleneck names that make little sense except to the namer. We've become the trendiest art town in the state over the last fifteen years or so, but I'm unconvinced that this translates into any particular benefit for the rest of us. The caliber of the art itself isn't particularly stimulating, but I'm more of a socialist-realism/WPA-mural kind of fan than the kind of stuff I see around here.