Schott Article

[OneEyeMan]

I saw this article in my local paper a while back.
Lenny

 

[Edward]

Interesting article. What exactly did Schott produce for the USAAF? Did they ever do the A2? It has always surprised me that Schott haven't tried to market even a limited edition A2 reproduction, I'd have thought their name would sell it well. But then it is a very specialist niche market, which is already well catered for, so perhaps it's just not within the scope of their business plan.

 

[AngryNJ]

Hi there, they do sell an A-2 jacket.

http://www.schottnyc.com/products/lifestyle/military/a-2-naked-cowhide-leather-flight.htm

I currently own one of their B-3 jackets, but am planning on selling it to buy a more accurate version from either Gibson and Barnes or Aero. I am leaning towards G&B for the B-3 though.

 

[Edward]

Ah, I was familir with that particular model of Schott, but I didn't know they clled it an A2. In many respects these are actually much closer to the ANJ3 jacket which was, as I understand it, intended to replace both the A2 and AN6552, providing one common jacket for both army and navy pilots. From what I understand of the history, this plan was rejected and the B-10 arrived for the USAAF, the first of the non-leather jackets. The main difference between that and this Schott would be that, in my experience, the Schotts would tend to be a more generous civilian cut, and have handwarmer pockets - then, of course, there is the reoveable fur collar and pile lining. The general fit is close to the current issue A2, from what I can make out (this also has handwarmer pockets, as well as interior pockets, another deviation from the pre-1943 jacket). The Schott is certainly a nice jacket, though - very practical with the removeable collar and lining. To me, it has a sort of 70s vibe to it, not sure why. [huh]

 

[Fletch]

Schott did an A-2 repro in the 1980s ("contract" 1987-01). But except for the one-piece back, lack of handwarmers, and undersize fit, there was no particular try for authenticity. It looked like it had been patterned from memory or a stylized drawing, with close-set pockets and a collar that slung very low in front. Mine is chocolate brown, chromed goatskin, with very heavy acrylic knits.

 

[Peacoat]

Thanks for posting the article. I always like to read about the old manufacturers who are still in business.

 

[Fletch]

Yes. Isn't it astonishing how every last blinkin' one of them invented the A-2? Great minds think alike...lol

 

[johnnyjohnny]

SCHoTT in the FooT

hi...thanks for the article...as for schott and the A-2 and what they produced for u.s. military personnel on contract...i'd say they schott themselves in the foot

fact is the schott 184 jacket that is shown above in a link to an alleged schott A-2, is definitely NOT an A-2...it is schott's biker jacket that was patterned after a combination of the A-2 and G-1, and in doing so is neither one or the other...tho a nice jacket

why i say schott shot themselves in the foot is that, fact is, they did make A-2s and G-1s for the u.s. government...nOt as 'replicas' but under actual contract made for u.s. personnel...i just sold one on ebay...they are rare, both in the A-2 and G-1

why schott would not capitalize on this postwar heritage of providing real milspec leather jackets to the u.s. military is beyond me...they seem content with making everything into casual wear or moto wear

they do NOT sell their legit contract made milspec jackets on their website, as other current contract providers do, and i don't know if they still make contract leather jackets for the u.s. military...only ones i've seen are old, from the 80s and 90s

having had 2 of these schott contract milspec A-2s (they are not replicas, they are made for service personnel) i can say they are truly according to milspec of the day. the one i sold on ebay recently was made to ww2 milspec...when milspec loosened up in 96 to allow side entry pockets, that is when my other one was made, which i still have, size 42 if anyone's interested

the knock above is trut that they are NOT true to the patterns of ww2 jackets (while they are definitely true to the requirements of hook latch throat collar, 1-piece back, top entry pockets prior to 96, and other coded requirements). they have a lot of the 70s in them, including very big collars.

still, i don't know many post war manufacturers that stayed true to ww2 patterns, though i'm selling a spiewak on ebay right now which was made virtually exactly the same as spiewak's ww2 patterns...spiewak is one of the few if maybe the only one that has done this, since few of the companies that provided ww2 jackets continued to exist in the 80s

while the owners of avirex reputedly worked with the military for the 87 reintro of the A-2, on updating the design while staying true to the ww2 models, spiewak apparently just dusted off their ww2 patterns and started making those for their post war contract production A-2s

back to schott...they definitely did make A-2s and G-1s for the u.s. govt on contract for personnel use...the 184's and other stuff sold on their website, like the 'lamb' A-2s, and 'top ***' G-1s, are definitely NOT those however

 

[Edward]

Wonder why they haven't capitalised on the military link, then? Maybe they feel the market for accurate WW2 repalcias is already well provided for, and in any case it seems to me that Schott isn't aiming for a niche market? Perhaps if there's another big Vietnam flick (it seems a long time since those were last in vogue, maybe the genre is due a renaissance, following on from th renaissance in WW2 pictures?), or even something from the Korea era, there's be much more demand for those postwar era jackets, and thus Scott might get into it.... [huh]

 

[Doctor Strange]

Just for the record, Schott does currently make an A-2 - but it's "wrong" in almost every way:

http://www.schottnyc.com/products/lifestyle/military/a-2-flight-jacket.htm

It's a pretty embarrassing "A-2"!

I had one of their earlier versions of the 184, the 164, that I got circa 1983 and wore as my main jacket through several bitter NYC winters. It was tough naked cowhide, but differed from today's 184 in a few ways: the faux-fur collar and faux-pile lining were permanently attached, the back wasn't belted like a G-1 and had a horizontal seam across the shoulderblades. In place of the bi-swing, it had gusset-like pieces under the arm to provide movement. It was an outstanding jacket, if not an accurate repro of anything...

 

[Fletch]

johnnyjohnny, do you suppose my "1987-01" A-2 was the milspec type? It has only a black loomed tag, with big fat gold letters, and fits slim, except for the low-slung collar. Throat latch (really more of a collarbone latch), snap down collar points (BIG snaps), and that characteristic round-cornered pocket and flap.

Again, medium brown chrome-tanned goat, no 'warmers, 1pc back.

 

[johnnyjohnny]

schoTT a-2s

strange doctor...yes, schott makes something they call an a-2...but as i mentioned, is not really, including being made of lamb (bahhhhhhhhhhhh) and a vertically split 2-piece back...you astutely called it wrong in every way

but fletch, i'd say yours is their contracted jacket...if it isn't an a-2 it will say 184, or i believe 164 for their earlier model of that hybrid (i.e. ******* jacket)...plus it would have a contract number, which it sounds like you were giving me the beginning of

as we discussed, even though it met contract specifications, and was done on contract for the usaf, that didn't prevent them from slight variations, like a really short torso, 24.75" for a 42 regular, and larger than ordinary collars (like cooper early on seemed to do, but i think schott gets the prize)...their leather was definitely nice and thick though

as for looks, i'd say schott's 164 and 184 jackets, repro of nothing, have cleaner and nicer lines than their actual milspec a-2s from the 80s

 

[fukigen]

Schott milspec A-2 could be like this one?

I take this old post out of its sleep...
just got a Schott A-2 sz44 on the bay... it fits like a 42 and quite short on the back length, I couldn't wear shorter for my size...
Gail from Schott identified it as their model 131 in the naked cowhide leather produced from 1989 - 1994.

looks really close to actual milspec to me, excepted no badge velcro loops.

Does it looks like the milspec you have?

 

[garzo]

Looks nice. Is it cowhide?

 

[fukigen]

from what Gail said when I asked the Schott forum, yes. and I would tend to trust her, as her Schott jacket knowledge is impressive, and I am far from being a leather specialist.

from another post in Schott forum, there is model 131 cowhide, 231 lambskin and 631 steerhide.

It is the 1st jacket I buy on the bay (.de this time) and got it a month ago. I am very happy with (as I was looking for a schott like this for a long time), it is in a very very good shape (for a 20years old jacket), looks almost like new.

ps:
I can hear butteMT saying "I told you, you will get more jacket..."
and Worf saying " I warned you!"

 

[Seb Lucas]

Nice enough jacket but it's way off for an accurate A2.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

The G-1 I was issued in 1999 was made by Schott. When looking to purchase a new one I was surprised that I was unable to find a milspec jacket on their website.

 

[fukigen]

Nice enough jacket but it's way off for an accurate A2.

compared to a ww2 A-2, absolutely, I totally agree. miles away from my RW repro...
compared to the new issue A-2 (1987 and 2000), looks quite similar ('87 with handwarmer...)

so here, more talking about current milspec than ww2 milspec.

 

[michaelleung9447]

Schott milspec A-2 could be like this one?

I take this old post out of its sleep...
just got a Schott A-2 sz44 on the bay... it fits like a 42 and quite short on the back length, I couldn't wear shorter for my size...
Gail from Schott identified it as their model 131 in the naked cowhide leather produced from 1989 - 1994.

looks really close to actual milspec to me, excepted no badge velcro loops.

Does it looks like the milspec you have?

Sorry to dig up the grave but do you happen to have the measurements of your 131 handy?

I’m thinking about buying a vintage 131/631 from Japanese second hand website and not sure about sizing at all (size 38 has almost identical measurements as a size 40 for some weird reason so I don’t trust their measurements). Would be good to have a reference!