Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[Peacoat]

Where abouts was your lining damaged? How did the seamstress repair it? I have one that has what I consider to be minor damage - it has a small tear in it, thta I would like to get fixed.

Dakota

_____

The lining was ripped in a couple of places, both at a seam and in the back where there was no seam, as I remember. She just stitched it up, with a machine, I believe. I looked at it when I picked it up, but haven't really looked at it since. I remember thinking that she did a great job. She also repaired the collar where there was wear. Did a good job there also. Best to get small rips repaired before they become big ones.

 

[KristaM]

My coat is a bridge coat. It's almost 50 inches from collar to hem and rests about mid-calf on me. I'm about 95% sure that it is black. It's been very cloudy and rainy lately so I'll look again the next time it's sunny.

The embellishments are flat braiding. I'll take a picture this weekend and post it. They blend so well that you can't really see them if you are more than 4 feet away. The one closest to the sleeve is about a half inch wide and the one about 1/8 inch above that is about 1/4 inch thick.

I did a little searching for Julius Horowitt and could only find that he was a naval and civilian tailor in the 40s.

Thanks for the info on the buttons. I did find that Vanguard still issues these buttons with shoulder marks, so I'll just keep my eye out or call them directly.

 

[Peacoat]

Yes, please check the color and let me know. I hope that it is very dark blue, then the pieces of the puzzle will come together. What you are describing on the sleeves may well be a rank indicator for an officer. If I remember correctly 1 1/2 stripes indicate a Lieutenant junior grade or O-2. Sounds like you have a nice bridge coat worn by a Lieutenant in WWII. A picture of the stripes would be helpful to confirm my hypothesis

 

[wetmarble]

More label action!

This time from an officer's coat:

Full image of the coat:

Also here's another tidbit I picked up on officer's buttons:

The buttons prior to the 1940 have the eagle looking to the right, the buttons post 1940 have the eagle looking to the left.

This is of course unconfirmed, but worth investigating.

 

[wetmarble]

Ooo, here's an interesting article on the early history of the Naval Uniform... http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/uniform_button.htm

Unfortunately, it doesn't talk about pea coats, but I still found it a nice read.

 

[wetmarble]

And here's another page documenting the various changes to naval uniforms from 1797 to 1947

http://www.quarterdeck.org/uniforms/uniforms.htm

 

[Michaelson]

I have my Dad's peacoat that was issued to him during WW2 when he was on a destroyer during the war. My Mom had to reline it (as the original lining had completely fallen out of the jacket), and I wore it through college until I noticed the thread of the relining job was pulling out of the old wool. I decided it was time to retire the jacket, as I didn't want it to completely fall apart from wear and tear of daily use.

It's now safely stored in our cedar chest in our bedroom. I'll have to take it out and look at it soon, as it's been a while since I've seen it. In retrospect, I can honestly say it was the most comfortable coat I've ever worn, and I wore it in the harshest of Columbus, Ohio winters...and I'm still puzzled why I've never purchased a replacement.

Regards! Michaelson

 

[Peacoat]

I have my Dad's peacoat that was issued to him during WW2 when he was on a destroyer during the war. My Mom had to reline it (as the original lining had completely fallen out of the jacket), and I wore it through college until I noticed the thread of the relining job was pulling out of the old wool. I decided it was time to retire the jacket, as I didn't want it to completely fall apart from wear and tear of daily use.

It's now safely stored in our cedar chest in our bedroom. I'll have to take it out and look at it soon, as it's been a while since I've seen it. In retrospect, I can honestly say it was the most comfortable coat I've ever worn, and I wore it in the harshest of Columbus, Ohio winters...and I'm still puzzled why I've never purchased a replacement.

Regards! Michaelson

Yes, that coat needs to stay retired. And you should buy a replacement; there is still a lot of Ohio winter left to be had this year. When you get a chance, please post a picture of the label, and let us know the date he went in the Navy, or was issued the coat, if you can find it out.


PS Just noticed you are now in Tennessee, so there is still a lot of Tennessee winter to be had this year, as we really haven't had any yet.

 

[Peacoat]

To Wetmarble: The officer's coat you posted was worn by a Lieutenant, junior grade, if I remember my ranks. The star above the stripes indicate that he was on command track, as opposed to working in a staff position. That is, he would be in consideration for command of his own boat or ship as he rose in rank. A staff officer would not be on track for command of a ship, although he would be on track for shore command. I believe that is the way it goes.

The tags in the officers' coats are different as officers are responsible for buying their own uniforms. That particular jacket would be worn for standard office duty, and perhaps for shipboard duty. In the Army we would call that uniform our "greens." Obviously in the Navy the uniform isn't green, so it may be called "blues." There is a lot about the Navy uniforms I don't know.

Perhaps if KristaM comes back to this board, she could compare the stripes on the sleeves of the coat above and see how the stripes on her bridge coat compare to the posted picture.

The links you posted contain a lot of information. Haven't had a chance to look at all of it yet. Hope to get to it tomorrow. Thanks for taking the time.

 

[Michaelson]

PS Just noticed you are now in Tennessee, so there is still a lot of Tennessee winter to be had this year, as we really haven't had any yet.

Boy, isn't THAT the plain truth. Had some heavy frost this morning, but other than that, it's been one mild winter so far.

I don't even remember what tag is still in there, or if Mom left it in. I'll have to take a look when I have time this weekend.

Oh, he went in the Navy in 1943 at the age of 16, so it is a 1943 issue peacoat. He was on a destroyer that patrolled the Atlantic seacoast between NYC and Havana.

Regards! Michaelson

 

[wetmarble]

Here's a tag I haven't seen...

This comes off of a ww2 coat with 8 buttons showing that has another Naval Clothing Factory label (Name and Rate)

 

[Dakota]

I have a 10 button one that has that tag and the tag is in good shape too.

QUOTE=wetmarble]Here's a tag I haven't seen...

This comes off of a ww2 coat with 8 buttons showing that has another Naval Clothing Factory label (Name and Rate)[/QUOTE]

 

[Peacoat]

When you say 10 buttons, I am assuming you have 8 buttons showing? Please post a picture of the tag.

 

[Dakota]

I think it shows all 10 but I will have to double check. I will try to get a picture posted of the tag and the coat this weekend.

When you say 10 buttons, I am assuming you have 8 buttons showing? Please post a picture of the tag.

 

[Dakota]

I just won the ebay auction for this Navy bridge coat. Item # 190074780008. I tried for this one (item # 250069666003) but was outbid. The labels look identical.

Dakota

 

[Peacoat]

Nice coat. The labels are not consistent with what we would expect to see in the peacoats of those years (1942 and 1955). My only explanation is that these are officers coats. Officers buy their own uniforms which come from approved manufacturers. A manufacturer might use the same label for many years as the manufacturer is not doing strict contract work. It can be most confusing until you realize that the labels in the enlisted coats are entirely different from the labels in the privately purchased officers' coats.

These labels won't aid in the dating game as they aren't synonymous with the peacoat labels. Now that I have solved that problem, I can get to sleep tonight!

 

[wetmarble]

I'm so excited! I just won the auction on this WW2 officer's coat: ebay 140077379610

When it arrives, I'll post more pictures.

 

[wetmarble]

Ok, here's something new in the label game:

I found a listing on ebay of a coat issued in October, 1962 to a sailor. I asked him about the label on the inside since it wasn't pictured and he responded saying it read the following:

US NAVY - DA-36-243QM(CTM)11459-9-62 - Size 38R

So we now know that the US NAVY labels were not 1 year only and that they have some form of dating going on sometimes. If I had to guess, I'd say that 9-62 refers to a Sept 1962 manufacture date. In the above label, I'd Guess C meant December.

 

[Peacoat]

That is a very nice coat. If it were one size larger, I would be kicking myself for not finding it.

Good information to know about the "US NAVY" label going back at least to 1962. I felt that it was for more than one year, but could never pin it down like you have.

I'm still not convinced that the year was embedded at the end of the contract number on this particular label, but it may well have been. Hopefully it was, as that makes the job easier and much more specific.

I just remembered that I have an April 1965 "US NAVY" coat in my bedroom closet. I will check the numbers on it if I can do so without waking my wife. I'll give her a few more minutes to be sound asleep before I go ratting around in my closet.

Just checked the coat; no match on the contract number. Different series of numbers. Probably I would have noticed a long time ago if there had been a "65" at the end of the string of numbers. I will post a picture of the label in the next day or so, if I can remember to do so.

That doesn't mean that the date was not encoded on prior year "US NAVY" tags, however. There is still a lot that we have to learn.

 

[Peacoat]

After my last post, I remembered that I had some other coats with "US NAVY" tags squirreled away. I found three of them. One tag was too faded to be read, another followed the same pattern as the 1965 coat--as discussed above, and the last had at the end of the tag the designation "C-61" This adds credence to your theory that some of those tags were date coded. It would be consistent with a 1961 coat. Unfortunately I don't have the history of these coats, so I can't confirm or deny the theory.

After some checking, I did find the history of the C-61 coat. The history is consistent with late fifties or early to mid sixties, but we already knew that from the tag. So, not much was learned from the history. I do like your theory, though; it gives us a good working hypothesis. Like you, I'm betting the C-61 coat in my closet was issued in 1961.