Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[Dakota]

I was thinking about bidding on that coat too. Please post some pics of it when you receive it.

I'm so excited! I just won the auction on this WW2 officer's coat: ebay 140077379610

When it arrives, I'll post more pictures.

 

[wetmarble]

My coat came today.

Unfortunately, it is not what was pictured in the auction. Instead of being a WW2 coat, it was a post war coat. :cry:

Anyway, here are some pics. (The label came out fuzzy. I'll try to retake it.)

Label, US NAVY, indicates a date of December 1958

Front

Front with collar up

Buttons

 

[Dakota]

What is the condition of the coat? You could resale it on ebay.

 

[wetmarble]

The coat is immaculate aside from a faint aroma of storage.

I've contacted the seller and she's willing to give me a full refund including shipping. It's just disappointing, because I wanted the coat to be what was pictured.

 

[green papaya]

The coat is immaculate aside from a faint aroma of storage.

I've contacted the seller and she's willing to give me a full refund including shipping. It's just disappointing, because I wanted the coat to be what was pictured.

thats a nice peacoat

1958 would be correct for a Navy SEALs coat, because that would be the time frame of the SEAL TEAM ONE circa 1962

the auction is listed in the Korean war era, but the description is accurate, she didnt say it was used during the Korean war, she said it belonged to a Navy SEAL, so that would indicate 1962 or later, because they didnt have SEALs during the Korean war, but they had UDT

she should have listed it in the Vietnam War era category, but she probably didnt know the exact date of manufacture.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ZbsQQsspagenameZhQ3ahQ3aadvsearchQ3aUSQQfviZ1

 

[Peacoat]

I would keep the coat. You got a good price on it. No, it's not WWII as pictured, but it is an excellent coat. This coat belonged to a Chief Petty Officer. Keep the coat.

 

[patrick1987]

That's one nice coat. You should keep it.

 

[wetmarble]

Ok,

Here's a summary of what I believe to be true so far...

Labels
Naval Clothing Factory with Name and Rate (confirmed for 1947 and earlier)

Naval Clothing Factory with Name and Service No. (1952 based on ebay seller who is original owner dating)

Clothing Supply Office (type 1) (Dec, 1953 based on Contract Number through 1957 based on ebay seller who is wife of original owner dating)

Clothing Supply Office (type 2) (unconfirmed dates)

Naval Clothing Depot (unconfirmed dates)

US NAVY (Dec, 1958 based on Contract Number through 1965)

COAT, MAN'S, WOOL; KERSEY DARK BLUE (confirmed for 1966-1968+)

 

[wetmarble]

Contract Numbers
N (seen on Clothing Supply Office - type 2 labels)
TAP in use during 1953 (seen on Clothing Supply Office - type 1 labels and Clothing Depot Labels)
QM in use during 1958 (seen on US NAVY labels)
DA in use during 1962 (seen on Clothing Supply Office - type 2 labels and US NAVY labels)
DSA in use from 1961 to 1977
DLA in use from 1978 to present

 

[wetmarble]

Buttons
World War 2 coats have 10 buttons on the front (8 showing), 2 small buttons on the left collar and 1 small button on the right collar

Post World War 2 coats have 7 or 8 buttons on the front (6 showing) and no small buttons

Chief Petty Officers have gold buttons, buttons prior to the 1940 have the eagle looking to the right, the buttons post 1940 have the eagle looking to the left.

Coats were issued with pewter buttons

Originally Posted by Peacoat
In the mid 70's, I don't have the exact year in front of me, the coats were issued with pewter (silver) buttons instead of black, during the tenure of Admiral Zumwalt. There was also an uniform change about then. These pewter buttons were similar to the gold buttons worn by officers and chiefs. The buttons were changed back to the standard black 1 1/4" in the mid to late 80's.

Stitching
World War 2 coats have a single line of stitching above the sleeve

Post World War 2 coats have a double line of stitching above the sleeve

Originally Posted by 52Styleline
On the peacoat which was issued to me in 1966, there is a single row of stitching 3/4 inch from the end of the sleeve, and a double row of stitching 3 inches up from the end of the sleeve. The double rows are separated by 3/4 inch.

 

[wetmarble]

Neck Strap
The neck strap is a small piece of wool buttoned on to the left side of the collar with two small buttons that can be used to secure the neck closure by buttoning it to another button on the right side of the collar. It is found on World War 2 era coats

Pockets
Exterior pockets were lined with tan or black corduroy through 1967. Starting in 1968 they were lined with white cotton. The black corduroy is very rare, and I have only seen it on coats manufactured in 1966.

There are usually 2 inside pockets, but sometimes only 1.

Wool
Wool is either 32oz Kersey wool or 24oz Melton wool.

Melton wool was used as early as 1974

 

[Peacoat]

Excellent job, Wetmarble.

A few comments:
1. Although the double row of stitching 3" above the cuff was definitely a post war trait, I have seen one 1950s coat that only had one row of stitching in that location. 1966 was the last year for double stitching, or any stitching, as far as I have been able to tell. My post 1966 coats have no stitching, double or single, 3" above the cuff, only the stitching right at the cuff.

2. The designation of "Kersey" and "Melton" is tricky. I believe this was conceived as a way to confuse peacoat daters who would come along thirty or so years in the future. What I refer to as the old style wool was used until 1979. Many refer to this as "Kersey" wool. In 1980 the fabric was changed to a "Melton" type wool. The color was also changed from a very dark "midnight" blue to a true black. Until 1980 all coats were manufactured with the old style wool, whether they were labeled as Kersey or Melton. The 1974 coat you have pictured is labeled as Melton. Even though it is labeled as such, it is most assuredly an old style wool fabric. As I stated earlier, this type of labeling was used so we would be confused by which material was actually used in the coat. If we had the coat in front of us, there would be no confusion, as the material is definitely the old style, even though it is labeled as a Melton.

3. The label that you pictured: Coat, Man's Wool, Kersey, DSA **** (1966--1968+) Was only used in 1966. A similar tag was used starting in 1967, but the date was included in the contract number. This distinguishes the 1966 tag from the subsequent years using a similar tag.

Thanks for all of the work. Unfortunately these pictures won't stay up long, as they will be removed after a period of time, and only the text will remain.

 

[wetmarble]

The pictures are all hosted on my photobucket account, so they'll stick around. Also, I may at some point organize all of this a little better and build a web page for dating pea coats, as there doesn't seem to be any resources available for it at this time on the web.

I know the 1966 label was a one off, but the labels following it are of a similar type for at least a few years, the only difference being the contract number. My interest in dating the coats fades somewhat after 1967 because the reason I got interested in all of this was that I wanted a peacoat with corduroy pockets. However, if I can unearth more information about labels and later years, I will certainly post it.

Originally Posted by Peacoat
The first contractor to manufacture the new coats was Vi-Mil, Inc. I can't remember if they are still in business, but I did know that at one time. The current contract holder is SterlingWear of Boston, which makes an excellent "new" peacoat.[/b]

Based on my ebay forays, there seem to be a multitude of labels in more recent years, and I'm guessing there may be more than one Navy Authorized manufacturer. I know that my current peacoat was manufactured in 2001 and is official navy issue. (I say this because of the sailor's name and service number stenciled into the coat) However, there is no mention of SterlingWear or Vi-Mil anywhere on the label.

My only hope is that the ebayers don't raise their prices once they know what they are actually selling. heh.

 

[Peacoat]

What I meant by the pictures not staying around long is that they will be removed from this board after a period of time, evidently because of the space they consume.

I got interested in all of this because I wanted to replace the peacoat my brother in law gave me when he got out of the Navy. I wore it during my last year of college and through law school. I then then changed to an overcoat to go with the suits after graduation. Still wore it some on the weekends when casual. Over the years that coat got away from me, and a year or so ago I got another. It seemed to be a different texture wool, so I got into the research of why it was different. Shortly after buying that first replacement coat, I felt something lead me to where the original coat had been hiding for many years. I looked, and there it was!

Fifteen or so coats later, and I have a pretty good knowledge of the dating of these old pieces of history from WWII to current.

Doing a Web page sounds like a good idea. I will be glad to help you out, if you want any help.

 

[wetmarble]

I'll gladly accept any help.

The hard part is going to be figuring out how to structure it and getting similar photos of coats from different years. I think the structure I outlined above is decent.

Labels
Contract Numbers
Button Types
Button Configurations
Stitching
Miscellaneous (Neck Strap, Pocket Lining, Wool Type)

I have a bunch of label pictures, but not so many pictures of coats for each year / era. Also you mentioned that you have notes on contract numbers, any info you have would be greatly appreciated.

I'll start putting something together and post a link here.

 

[Peacoat]

Send me a PM with your email address so we don't clutter up this thread/board. Not everyone is enamored of peacoats; most of them like the leather!

 

[Dakota]

I've been enjoying reading all of this information on the peacoats. It is quite educational. I collect them too.

Dakota

 

[sherridtn]

Just purchased a peacoat and was wondering if someone could help me date it. I know its post 1980 from what I read on this forum but not sure of the exact year. Heres the tag info:

OVERCOAT, MAN'S, ENLISTED (100% WOOL)
CONTRACT NO: DLA100-80-C-3335
STOCK NO: 8405-01-082-3542
SIZE: 34R
NAME OF CONTRACTOR: VI-MIL, INC.

 

[wetmarble]

Based on the contract, your coat was manufactured in 1980

 

[Peacoat]

And your coat is the first year of the truly black coats with the "Melton" wool. If the buttons haven't been replaced, you still have the original pewter buttons on your coat.

I also have a 1980 coat, and it's a good coat. Hard to find an issue peacoat that isn't a good coat!