Panama Hat Thread

[JC Montecristi Hat]

horita = a small hour or short time

Horita = now

 

[JC Montecristi Hat]

These were sold as panama hats, even though it was very clear from the pics they were just bodies. But at the price: sure, why not.

Industria Ecuatoriana Montechristi. This one is less refined and has some discolouration issues. Not as pronounced as the picture shows (I tried to wash it, to see if that made a difference - it didn't).

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Second one doesn't have a stamp or anything. Just what seems to be the word "horita" written inside and a "57". Some discoloured fiber on one spot near the brim break, but otherwise a very fine looking hat body.

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You could bleach it with peroxide, that’s what they do in Cuenca. Some people do this with chlorine, but it’s very harsh on the straw. Unfortunately, I can’t help you with more information, because in Montecristi we only use sulfur, and to achieve a better result a slightly more aggressive product is needed.

 

[Pellie]

Modern Panizza panamahat. Overall a nice weave. Don't see Panizza's panamahats very much. Brimsize 7cm, so good sunprotection.

 

[jeffgarf]

I have found an old brand of Panama hats, still being made and sold from Cuenca, that have not been shown here before.

K. Dorfzaun Panama Hats was started in 1939 in Ecuador by German-Jewish refugees. Originally sold in the US, the 1970's saw the family-owned company expand to other markets around the world.

Today, at Sherlock's Hats in Jerusalem, I saw and purchased my first one.

https://kdorfzaun.com/history-of-dorfzaun/

 

[steur]

You could bleach it with peroxide, that’s what they do in Cuenca. Some people do this with chlorine, but it’s very harsh on the straw. Unfortunately, I can’t help you with more information, because in Montecristi we only use sulfur, and to achieve a better result a slightly more aggressive product is needed.

Thanks. I'll send to my hatter to see what she makes of it and see if there is a nice panama to be made from it.

 

[JC Montecristi Hat]

I have found an old brand of Panama hats, still being made and sold from Cuenca, that have not been shown here before.

K. Dorfzaun Panama Hats was started in 1939 in Ecuador by German-Jewish refugees. Originally sold in the US, the 1970's saw the family-owned company expand to other markets around the world.

Today, at Sherlock's Hats in Jerusalem, I saw and purchased my first one.

https://kdorfzaun.com/history-of-dorfzaun/

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Along with Ecua-Andino, K. Dorfzaun is one of the largest exporters of finished hats. It is also the leading exporter of Panama hat bodies to Japan.

In the past, most hat companies in Cuenca were of Jewish origin; over time, these businesses were either sold to locals or closed permanently. K. Dorfzaun is the only one remaining from that era.

 

[jeffgarf]

Along with Ecua-Andino, K. Dorfzaun is one of the largest exporters of finished hats. It is also the leading exporter of Panama hat bodies to Japan.

In the past, most hat companies in Cuenca were of Jewish origin; over time, these businesses were either sold to locals or closed permanently. K. Dorfzaun is the only one remaining from that era.

Thank you for this information.

 

[Pellie]

The only reason i bought this hat was because there was "Optimo" printed on it haha. I know it's not THE Optimo hats from Chicago and also not sure if it's Optimo hatworks from Bisbee Arizona, but the price was low, so why not. Now i own an Optimo lol. It's a decent panama hat from Ecuador, in NOS condition, so i'm not complaining

 

[Judgmentalist]

I ordered a super fino as well. It is on its way. I have to say they have been great at keeping me informed at every step of the process. Very good ordering experience so far.

How did this hat turn out?

 

[wsmontana]

I picked up this Panama that was originally sold through Panama Hats Direct. If my counting is right, this is a 546 WPI which is a Fino Fino grade according to their website:
https://www.panamahatsdirect.com/shop/grades.php

With some water and patience I was able soften the straw and easily curl the brim and remove unwanted creases.

The quality of the hat body is great but the trim work is lower quality than I think the hat deserves. If I decide to keep it I would likely upgrade all the trim.

 

[shopkin]

There are $50 hats that advertise to be genuine Ecuadorian toquilla. Even a poor Ecuadorian woman can't weave a hat by hand at that price. How is this possible? Are there machine-woven Panamás?

 

[Judgmentalist]

Today I moved this vintage Stetson panama into my summer rotation. Crown shaped at 4 3/4 inches and brim is 3 inches. Despite having a 6 7/8 size label , being vintage, feels bigger like size 7. It wears relatively light and does not get hot like wearing a Montecristi with high w.p.s.i. Lucky to have found this years ago in good condition I thought.

High WPI hats are hotter?

 

[M Hatman]

1910

 

[Judgmentalist]

1910

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Very cool. Apparently $25 in 1910 was worth about $900 in today dollars.

 

[M Hatman]

And YES, that is about right. Just short of $900 ($873) by the inflation calculators. AND they say $25 and higher! So, just like today.

 

[Judgmentalist]

This hat is driving me crazy. I’d like to tell you guys what I see and hopefully some Montecristi experts will tell me what I’m missing and/or wrong about.

Here is the link if you want to look at all the photos.

https://ebay.us/m/EiylWm

1.) I wouldn’t buy this hat - it’s got several places where there is some broken straw, which is a non-starter for me.

2.) I’m not a fan of this Optimo style for myself. If I was going to buy this hat it would be with the intention of having someone reblock it into a different shape - and to fit me. The broken straw also indicates against this plan. And I assume I would run into a problem finding someone that would want to mess with it even without the broken straw. If this was a BBB hat I would have bought it and shipped it to Mr. Black already, and if he told me it wasn’t a good candidate for reworking, I would have kept it just to look at.

3.) The ruler shots are not correct for a good WPI count. They are taken on the brim, which isn’t ideal, and not taken with the ruler laid roughly along a weave line.

4.) I can’t tell anything about the maker or the seller, nor do I understand the in-house notations at all (other than the 7 1/8). If you can read any of this please advise.

5.) Having said all of that, this appears to me to be an extremely finely-woven Montecristi hat. Aside from the broken straw, it also appears to be a good hat body, good color, and woven well in addition to woven very fine. I counted something like 1600-2k WPI, though I have a low degree of confidence in that number.

Please feel free to correct me, or add to what I have, or both. I’m trying to learn more about these hats over time.

 

[Judgmentalist]

I found some information about the original seller.

 

[Rmccamey]

1910

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@belfastboy Robert, can you make a telescope Panama? That is, can you steam in a telescope crease like with felt or does the crease have to be formed during the weaving process?

 

[Judgmentalist]

@belfastboy Robert, can you make a telescope Panama? That is, can you steam in a telescope crease like with felt or does the crease have to be formed during the weaving process?

I have zero first hand knowledge about this, and I would love to hear Robert’s thoughts on this hat - particularly on the quality of the hat body and the potential to reshape it without causing greater damage, and/or repairing (visually) the existing damage.

Having said that, I have done quite a bit of research on this subject. Montecristi hat bodies are woven into a basic “hat” shape, not a wearable configuration. There are many steps to this process, but the hat finisher buys these hat bodies, and then steams and blocks them into the desired shape, and applies all the finish details, ribbon, sweatband, and so on.

It is possible, under ideal circumstances, to take a montecristi hat that has been made into a fedora, for example, and make it into a different style hat. It is also possible to take a fedora and rotate it so that a damaged spot in the pinch is now in the back of the hat.

When the hats are woven, the are woven onto generic size blocks. This means taking a straw hat that has been woven to a 57 hat body and reblocking it up to a 59, for example, puts it under a different kind of stress.

I don’t know how much flexibility a good hatter has in this area, even under ideal circumstances, and this hat isn’t ideal.

I strongly suspect that Robert would not want to touch this hat with a 10 foot pole, for fear of a catastrophic failure in the attempt, but again, I would very much like to hear his thoughts. For educational purposes, if for no other reason.

 

[Judgmentalist]

It seems very likely that this hat was originally made and sold some time in the late 60s.