Military Hat Photos

[deanglen]

I like the swoop too. I don't want it perfectly flat so I can be accused of playing "DI" or "State Trooper." A flat brim reflects an equally flat personality in my opinion. lol

Look, if J. Peterman thinks they can sell a cheap wool felt campaign hat, S-M-L sized, in the wrong color, and with a fantasy hat cord for over $100, then maybe there's a market for a similarly priced better quality version.

Cheers!

Hear! Hear! Well put and may it be so!

dean

 

[Pat_H]

Here is my Grand Fathers WWI Campaign Hat.

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

Wow. That M1911 hat is in great shape!

 

[Pat_H]

Pat,
What in the world made that hat so hard to reproduce? That one looks great! Is the ribbon the correct color? Did they have to run the brim around four times on the sewing machine, or did they have a multiple needle machine? I guess I'm surprised that hatters almost 100 years ago could do what our age finds daunting. That is a very handsome looking hat. How heavy is the felt? Is it board stiff on the brim? Is the crown pretty rigid too?
Does anyone at the other forum have the regs for a1911 posted, regarding regulations specifying the montant peak? I'll check, but if they don't, does anyone have such? I know, too many questions. But you're providing such a stimulating input on these hats and I really enjoy learning about them.

dean

I'm not sure what about the stitching makes it tough, but one fairly well known custom hat maker turned the project down flat, citing both the brim stitching, and the felt color, as too difficult to replicate.

The hatter we chose experimented with that, and in this thread I recalled that they actually did a couple of extra hats with stitiching as an experiment. They were in small sizes, although at least one other was nearly complete. They may very well still have that one. That particular hatter told me that they worked for awhile on how to do the stitching, figured it out, and then trained one of their people on how to do it. Just after they did that, the person who was trained to do it quit, so they were looking at having to train somebody all over on it. Unfortunately, I don't know how they did the stitching. I do recall she told me they left the machine upon which it had been done set up for these hats at the time.

I don't think the stitching was really all that difficult to do, it's just uncommon, and a pain, which makes it a downside to anyone thinking of taking it on. For a small shop, it's something they have to figure out, and sort of reinvent the wheel on.

On the ribbon color, I remember they tried to match the color to the original sample hat. I think it was slightly lighter, but not much. When they made the sample, they sent me the original, which was not mine, and it was pretty close to that particular hat.

The Felt is relatively heavy, but not as heavy as the Stetson cowboy hats I have. Its noticably heavier than than a Stetson Open Road, or a Royal Stetson Fedora I have. I'd say it's 3/4s of the way to good grade cowboy hat. The brim is stiff, but I did shape it with stem to have a slight bend in the front and back, much the way period hats often did. I do wear it on rare occasion for some outdoor use in the Fall, and I like a slight bend down in the front and back. It shaped fairly easily.

The crown is fairly soft. I'd say about as soft as the better grade Stetson cowboy hats I have.

 

[Pat_H]

Here are some other examples of the big experiment.

This is the one which we felt was closet to correct:

Here's a couple of others that came about as the hatter tried to perfect the hat.

The last one was the only one witih colored grommets, which was another part of the project to be accomplished.

In these photos, the colors don't really come out quite right. The first hat was the closest to correct in terms of color.

It was also the only one in a relatively common size, which, fortunately for me, was my size.

 

[Pat_H]

Here are some other examples of the big experiment.

This is the one which we felt was closet to correct:

Here's a couple of others that came about as the hatter tried to perfect the hat.

The last one was the only one witih colored grommets, which was another part of the project to be accomplished.

In these photos, the colors don't really come out quite right. The first hat was the closest to correct in terms of color.

It was also the only one in a relatively common size, which, fortunately for me, was my size.

Note in the second hat you can see the grommet under the hat band, which the first M1911s had.

 

[deanglen]

Pat,
Did you check out Bagger's repro?

dean

 

[Baggers]

Speaking of the repro, I should post a picture of its brim stitching. Reading about the U.S. hatter who balked at doing it made me wonder how WPG's Pakistani sweatshop was able to accomplish the task? Obviously the man didn't need the business. Pity.

Cheers!

 

[Pat_H]

Pat,
Did you check out Bagger's repro?

dean

Where is it, I can't seem to find it.

 

[Pat_H]

Speaking of the repro, I should post a picture of its brim stitching. Reading about the U.S. hatter who balked at doing it made me wonder how WPG's Pakistani sweatshop was able to accomplish the task? Obviously the man didn't need the business. Pity.

Cheers!

That may very well be true. Perhaps setting up to do the stitching is regarded as just too much of a pain to deal with, if there's other customers anyhow. I know in our case the hatters enthusiasm for the projected waned as she beccame busier.

 

[deanglen]

Where is it, I can't seem to find it.

Pat,

Right here is the link to the thread that shows it. They call it an M1910. One year short of M1911. Is that a correct dating?http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=11714&highlight=campaign+hat

dean

 

[DOUGLAS]

Here is a WWII German Flight Helmut. It has seen better days but it is all there.

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

 

[Pat_H]

Pat,

Right here is the link to the thread that shows it. They call it an M1910. One year short of M1911. Is that a correct dating?http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=11714&highlight=campaign+hat

dean

Here's the current WPG listing for that hat:

http://whatpriceglory.com/pic/CampaignHatM1910.jpg

In their listing, they list it as the M1911, which is the correct date. I've seen them also listed in error as the M1912.

It looks nice in the photos. In terms of detail, the grommet in the brim is not correct for the very first hats, which had a grommet underneath the hat ribbon. That's probably a pretty obscure details. Later, the grommet in the brin was added, which is, I think, still how the DI examples are today. I can't recall, but I think the rows of stitching may have gone out about the time the grommet in the brim came in.

In terms of pricing, the price looks about right. The WPG hat is wool felt, while at least the early M1911s would have been fur felts. Having said that, the M1911s were not always of the best quality, and you can find plenty of example in original photos of hats that have lost their shape.

I like how the brim has been bent down in front and back here. That was very commonly done. Indeed, it would have been more common, at least if photos are indicative, then flat brims. You often see the brims bent up in front as well. They sure were a sharp looking hat. The WPG example, to my eye, looks a little closer to the post WWI campaign hat, which was still a sharp looking hat.

 

[DOUGLAS]

Here is a slouch hat. I don't know the age but the hat is in very good condition. It does not have a leather sweat it is more of a vinyl covered fabric. The crossed Khukuris' are solid brass. The puggaree is a fine linen or musslin type material. I'm guessing that it is from a Gurkha organization. Too bad it is smaller than I can wear.

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

 

[Russ]

This is the first close up photo of a real hat pugaree I've seen. It looks like the cloth was not twisted as I had assumed, but somehow gathered. Am I correct?

 

[deanglen]

Is this an actual M1911?

Found this on-line, offered as an actual M1911. Is it? No stitching on the brim. Grommet in the brim. I'm thinking it isn't.

dean

 

[DOUGLAS]

Russ, It looks like it was rapped not gathered. I will take some more detailed shots of the puggaree so you can see it a bit clearer.The fabric behind seems to be close to the color of the hat body.

 

[Pat_H]

Found this on-line, offered as an actual M1911. Is it? No stitching on the brim. Grommet in the brim. I'm thinking it isn't.

Dean, it might be, but it isn't a WWI vintage one.

The early ones had a higher crown, and brim stitching. There was no grommet in the brim, but rather one under the hat band.

Later, the stitching was omitted, and the grommet added. The crown became lower.

This one might be a well weathered, post WWI, M1911. Of course, the frequency of copies of the later versions, combined with the numerous commercially offered hats, and the continued use of the hat in small numbers for specific purposes post WWII, makes it difficult to tell.

 

[Pat_H]

Here is a slouch hat. I don't know the age but the hat is in very good condition. It does not have a leather sweat it is more of a vinyl covered fabric. The crossed Khukuris' are solid brass. The puggaree is a fine linen or musslin type material. I'm guessing that it is from a Gurkha organization. Too bad it is smaller than I can wear.

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

Nice example. Is this a fur felt hat?

 

[deanglen]

Dean, it might be, but it isn't a WWI vintage one.

The early ones had a higher crown, and brim stitching. There was no grommet in the brim, but rather one under the hat band.

Later, the stitching was omitted, and the grommet added. The crown became lower.

This one might be a well weathered, post WWI, M1911. Of course, the frequency of copies of the later versions, combined with the numerous commercially offered hats, and the continued use of the hat in small numbers for specific purposes post WWII, makes it difficult to tell.

Of course! I should have thought about them not changing the model designation with every minor change. Dropping the brim stitching makes me wonder two things:

1) Was it done to reduce production time and cost, and

2) What was the purpose of the brim stitching in the first place?


dean

 

[DOUGLAS]

Pat_H, It feels really nice but I suspect it is wool. It is definitely not an officer grade hat. Although it is soft it has that feel of boiled wool. I could be entirely incorrect though.From what ever material it was with , it is made well.