Military Hat Photos

[DOUGLAS]

Dean, that 1st khaki Campaign hat with the tall crown is fantastic. I got to dig out my Grandfathers Campaign hat.

 

[deanglen]

Dean, that 1st khaki Campaign hat with the tall crown is fantastic. I got to dig out my Grandfathers Campaign hat.

The whole forum is terrific! Details! Lots of details! This is what I crave! I wish they had more on the 1883-on Campaign hats. You have your grandfather's campign hat? Find it! Shoot it, with your camera, and post that gem. I just finished redoing my Span-Am War Era campign hat, brim trim stitching, ribbon and bow. If I only had a camera of my own I'd post shots for viewing. It was campaign hats that led me to fedoras. I have a soft spot for them still. I like the tall crown tan hat. Wear that around Manhatten and listen for the responses!

dean

 

[jkingrph]

Hey Jkingrph, thanks for the info. I have wondered about that. The reason I mentioned it to be a Lt.Col. is because there is a name and rank on the sweat band. I would think having your name in the hat would come in handy when there are more than two laying in front of you.

Absolutely, when I completed Officers Training School (OTS) and upon the oath of office, everyone threw his hat into the air. If you did not have your name inside it was a problem.
Also helped claiming your hat at the O club esp at some of the formal occasions when almost eveyone was somewhat iniberatied!

 

[jkingrph]

Some of these pictures are great.

I remember an Italian officer when I was assigned in support of a NATO headquarters back in the early 70's who had a hat that looked somewhat like those of the pictures of William Tell, with a long feather. Never saw another, the Greeks and Turks although more numerous were not as noticible as were the Brits.

Jeff

 

[Pat_H]

Campaign hats

Wow, Pat_H, those are terrific sites. I love that 1st hat pictured. Thanks for that source. I bet Dean would enjoy that one.

Thanks Douglas, glad you enjoyed them. That khaki colored one is unusual.

 

[Pat_H]

Pre 1911 hats

The whole forum is terrific! Details! Lots of details! This is what I crave! I wish they had more on the 1883-on Campaign hats. You have your grandfather's campign hat? Find it! Shoot it, with your camera, and post that gem. I just finished redoing my Span-Am War Era campign hat, brim trim stitching, ribbon and bow. If I only had a camera of my own I'd post shots for viewing. It was campaign hats that led me to fedoras. I have a soft spot for them still. I like the tall crown tan hat. Wear that around Manhatten and listen for the responses!

dean

Dean, some of those are depicted in this archived thread:

http://www.militaryhorse.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=4408

 

[deanglen]

Dean, some of those are depicted in this archived thread:

Pat!
I can't believe my eyes! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap I have never seen so many photos and facts on my favorite hats, right before I my very eyes. That guy has 10 of those hats! I didn't think that many still existed! Thank you, thank you, and thank you again! I will spend hours poring over the pictures and texts! I only wish I'd found this before I made my homemade reproduction. It would have been all that more accurate!

dean

 

[Pat_H]

Pat!
I can't believe my eyes! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap I have never seen so many photos and facts on my favorite hats, right before I my very eyes. That guy has 10 of those hats! I didn't think that many still existed! Thank you, thank you, and thank you again! I will spend hours poring over the pictures and texts! I only wish I'd found this before I made my homemade reproduction. It would have been all that more accurate!

dean

Dean, who did you have your reproduction campaign hat made by?

I have a nice quality M1911 campaign hat that was the product of an effort to reproduce the very first model of it, with the brim stitching. But the project itself, while producing one good hat, was a bit of a failure as getting it done was such a chore, and only the one example resulted.

 

[deanglen]

Dean, who did you have your reproduction campaign hat made by?

I have a nice quality M1911 campaign hat that was the product of an effort to reproduce the very first model of it, with the brim stitching. But the project itself, while producing one good hat, was a bit of a failure as getting it done was such a chore, and only the one example resulted.

Pat,

I made two of them from cowboy hats I found on e-bay, here's the thread I posted about them. I have since redone the second one, trying to get the brim stitching right and you're darn right it's tough, not having a three needle heavy duty sewing machine:http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=11356

I would love to do more of them, and that is why I loved the forum link you posted. I really need as many details and detailed photos as I can get. My first attempts were not as informed. Your link was like fresh air! I have so many questions about those hats, I don't know where to begin. Are they all fur felt? How heavy of a felt. Sweatbands: how thick, what color. Stitching, exactly what color thread, how was it sewed, machine I assume. What color felt, exactly. Ribbon, 5/8", and what colors were used. Why did they pinch them so tight at the crown like that? Why did the montana peak take over? Rain, I've read. Brim width, appears to vary. Crown heigth, appears to vary. and so on. My greatest joy would be to produce the most accurate repro I could of those hats. Just to be able to do it. I love the look.

dean

 

[DOUGLAS]

Hey Dean, did you see the model 1904 ? My God is that fantastic!! I would definitely wear that type around town. What a great site.
I gotta start posting more military hats.

 

[deanglen]

Hey Dean, did you see the model 1904 ? My God is that fantastic!! I would definitely wear that type around town. What a great site.
I gotta start posting more military hats.

You know it! I'm going to aim to reproduce one of those, the one have have is an amateurish atempt at the 1883 he shows. I love the subtle changes in the 1904. One less row of stitching, eyelets for a chin strap, and folded over brim edge. Does that mean they started using thinner felt? I wonder. The ribbon seems a full 1" wide, too. How did they punch the star vent with the felt closing back up? They must have cut out a small circular piece with each punch. But how? Sharpened thin cutting tubes? What do you think?

dean

 

[Pat_H]

Pat,

I made two of them from cowboy hats I found on e-bay, here's the thread I posted about them. I have since redone the second one, trying to get the brim stitching right and you're darn right it's tough, not having a three needle heavy duty sewing machine:http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=11356

I would love to do more of them, and that is why I loved the forum link you posted. I really need as many details and detailed photos as I can get. My first attempts were not as informed. Your link was like fresh air! I have so many questions about those hats, I don't know where to begin. Are they all fur felt? How heavy of a felt. Sweatbands: how thick, what color. Stitching, exactly what color thread, how was it sewed, machine I assume. What color felt, exactly. Ribbon, 5/8", and what colors were used. Why did they pinch them so tight at the crown like that? Why did the montana peak take over? Rain, I've read. Brim width, appears to vary. Crown heigth, appears to vary. and so on. My greatest joy would be to produce the most accurate repro I could of those hats. Just to be able to do it. I love the look.

dean

Dean, some of the questions you ask are answered in other threads on TMH on the M1911, although off hand I don't recall them being answered on the pre 1911 series. The specifications for the early M1911s are up on one of the various threads, or in a link in a thread.

We undertook an attempt at one time to have a good quality M1911 reproduced for TMH members who wanted them, although in the end it was a really frustrating project, and we ended up with a single example, which I have. In doing that, we acquired a lot of the data on the early variant of that hat, which differs in some details from the later ones. For example, the early ones had the brim stitching, and the later ones didn't, and the early ones had a higher crown. We provided examples to hat maker, who was able to come close on the felt colors, and worked to get the stitching right, but who in the end abandoned the project.

One thing that was evident is that in the M1911 variant there's actually quite a bit of variance, even though they are a uniform hat. In part this might have been because of the long period of use of the 1911 hat, and WWI production variances might account for some of it. Also, better quality hats were offered for sale to officers, which were of a higher grade than those issued to enlisted men. So there were good fur felt hats of that type, while the WWI issued campaign hat might feature lower grade of felt. Even at that, there seems to be variance amongst issue hats. How much use any of this is on the earlier hats I don't know. Chances are, however, that at least several of the TMH folks do know the answers to those questions.

On the change to the Montana peak style crown, I suspect that might have mostly been for stylistic reasons, but I don't know. In the second half of the 19th Century soldiers had wide leeway on campaign hats, and a lot of private purchase hats were worn in the field. This carried on even after the 83 hat, and you start seeing photographs of soldiers wearing private purchase Montana peak style hats in the 1880s. This was a popular style with cowboys at the time. The style seems to have been very popular in the 1890s, and so it shows up a fair amount amongst soldiers in the Spanish American War period. A good example of that use can be found in the photos of Col. Torrey, of one of the volunteer cavalry regiments, who always seems to be wearing a Montana peak style hat. This continued on after 1900, and I've seen a photo of rifle practice at West Point in which almost everyone, cadets and trainers, are wearing that type of hat, with what appears to be a 4" brim. Col. Townsend Whelen, the famous rifleman, can also be seen in photos of that period wearing a similar hat.

To add to it, the Montana peak style hat received a big boost in the Boer War as the Canadian cavalry regiments adopted the Montana peak style Stetson, with the indents 90 degrees to the M1911 placement, as their campaign hat. Theirs had the 4" brim, and that hat later became the basis of the hat worn by the RCMP. Some Canadian cavalry units still wore that hat somewhat in WWI. The U.S. Army actually went to the Montana peak style hat late, in comparison to the Canadian army and RCMP.

Well, probably none of that helps you much. Glad you're enjoying the threads, however. There's lots of photos of various campaign hat being worn by US troops in different threads. Its clear form those that the pre 1911 hats continued on at least until the teens, so the change wasn't immediate.

 

[Pat_H]

Dean, by the way, your home made work looks pretty good. I'd think it would be hard to duplicate a hat that way, but yours look pretty convincing!

 

[deanglen]

Thanks Pat,

I'm considering registering with your horse soldier forum so I can get in touch with the guy with the 10 Campaign hats. Maybe he can e-mail me more photos and answer questions about them. Thanks again for your information and compliment on my homegrown repro. Glad you're a Lounger!

dean

 

[deanglen]

Pat,
I've been doing some reading at that link you posted. It's interesting to see the parallel universe of discussions on wool versus felt, rabbit versus beaver, nutria versus both and/or either, quality of repro hats, etc. Thanks again for being a part of the Lounge. Oh, did that one guy ever get his $60 1911 repro and was it any good?

dean

 

[Pat_H]

Pat,
I've been doing some reading at that link you posted. It's interesting to see the parallel universe of discussions on wool versus felt, rabbit versus beaver, nutria versus both and/or either, quality of repro hats, etc. Thanks again for being a part of the Lounge. Oh, did that one guy ever get his $60 1911 repro and was it any good?

dean

I don't know if that fellow obtained his $60 or not. I do know that our single example M1911 reprodution was up over $100, and it was an example that had been produced as a test, so it wasn't priced at market. At the time, I think we were looking at something in the order of $125 or so, and we were pretty lucky at that. I often wear cowboy hats, given my location and one of my occupations, and the reprodution, in order to be worthwhile, had to be priced comparably to the better grade of cowboy hat.

Of coruse, that's no surprise, given as the M1911 is essentially a short brim Montana Peak cowboy hat.

I've posted a new thread on the M1883-M1904, as this dicussion has resparked my interest in that hat. I used the original photos and text, but you may be interested in any replies. That thread is here:

http://www.militaryhorse.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7091

 

[deanglen]

Thanks, Pat. I'll be watching that forum.

dean

 

[DOUGLAS]

Hey Dean, i found my Grandfathers Campaign hat. Man, it is in better shape than I remembered. I used to wear that hat through out High School. I also found a couple of his Side Caps, and a WWII German Flight Helmut. I will post these in a bit.

 

[deanglen]

Hey Dean, i found my Grandfathers Campaign hat. Man, it is in better shape than I remembered. I used to wear that hat through out High School. I also found a couple of his Side Caps, and a WWII German Flight Helmut. I will post these in a bit.

CAN"T WAIT! But will. I'm assuming "montana" peak? I've got to believe that style of crown bash can have a life outside of state troopers, drill insructors, mounties,park rangers, and "Smokey-the-you-know-what". Not a rakish bash, to be sure but I posted this once, elsewhere, and I think it's interesting; a fedora with a "montana" peak:

dean

 

[Pat_H]

CAN"T WAIT! But will. I'm assuming "montana" peak? I've got to believe that style of crown bash can have a life outside of state troopers, drill insructors, mounties,park rangers, and "Smokey-the-you-know-what". Not a rakish bash, to be sure but I posted this once, elsewhere, and I think it's interesting; a fedora with a "montana" peak:

dean

That's an unusual one. I don't think I've ever seen a Montana Peak hat of that type.