May Day Boycott

[Sachet]

I am so encouraged by the level of intelligent and mutually respectful dialogue that has taken place concerning the illegal immigrants issue in the FL. The various posts here have been of a higher caliber than what I read in the April 10th issue of Newsweek.

Yes, there have been a few slams and off-topic diatribes, but that always happens when you chance stepping into a Convictions vs. Opinions situation.

I am using this whole thread for my son (a Junior in high school) in conjunction with what he is studying in Government and Economics.

Thank you, Gentlemen (and Ladies) for such stellar examples of how to discuss, debate and contemplate an important topic that affects our nation now and will also impact his future.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Wow! You're welcome!

 

[Lincsong]

I have seen a couple (4) restaurants closed. Big deal, a customer can walk next door and eat so the owner lost a days worth of business. And Monday's are usually the slowest days for restaurants anyway. Lot's of graffitti on East 14th St. in Oakland and Mission St. in San Francisco; LA RAZA, STOLEN LAND, F*&^ You Whitey. I saw a Chinese girl wearing a T-Shirt from the rally. (In Spanish) I know personally a couple of restauranteurs who closed. Really, nice honest people. I think they're little mistaken on this issue, but if they want to lose a days worth of business it's no skin off my nose.

These illegals don't want to assimilate to be Americans. Period! They don't want to learn English, they want US to learn Spanish. They are in a state of delusion. If they want to reconquer this land then I must ask; "What are they going to do with it?" Like I posted earlier; Mexico is an ignorant, corrupt land and will always be until they get their act together. If someone wants to post all the great medical, technological and industrial advances that Mexico has contributed to mankind please lay them out. But, does anyone think that there would be a Hollywood, Silicon Valley, Hoover Dam, Golden Gate Bridge, oil industry in Houston and Dallas if the U.S. hadn't bought that area or if great men like Sam Houston didn't rebel against Mexican despots? Please! In the San Francisco Bay Area the Spanairds denuded the area in the early 1800's to run cattle. If this place was still in Mexico's claws cattle would still be grazing around the bay. Less than 26 Spanish families owned the entire state of California. To think that everything would have been the same is fantasy.

100 years ago this nation was producing jobs for unskilled labor so taking in hoardes of the unskilled was not a problem. In addition there were no welfare programs, or bilinqual education, you came to work or you didn't come. Your're kids learned english, and the drop out rate was 75%. Looking at an old poster from 1908 advertising for workers the pay was as follows; 10 pieces of gold for each man, 7 pieces for his wife and 4 pieces for each child per month. Now I don't know what the going conversion rate in 1908 was in terms of gold pieces into greenbacks but if a man had a wife and six kids he was paid 41 pieces of gold a month in 1908!

Today, this nations economy is not producing huge numbers of unskilled jobs. We need doctors, computer scientists, and other professionals. We have more than an adequate amount of native born Americans to fill the unskilled positions.

Did anyone remember the 2004 hurricanes that whacked Florida? Well, right after that the price of tomatoes went up to $60 a crate. Did we all suffer because the price shot up? NO! Mechanizing agriculture instead of using illegal aliens will not significantly raise the prices of fruits and vegetables. Anyone buy a cup of coffee today? Do you know that the price of Colombian beans has tripled in the past TWO years? Are you paying twice or three times the amount for a cup of coffee?

There is a unique American Culture, built around private property, rugged individualism and personal responsibility. One language is what binds us together. Either you want to come here and become an American or you don't.

 

[Katt in Hat]

Lincsong:[Q]"There is a unique American Culture, built around private property, rugged individualism and personal responsibility. One language is what binds us together. Either you want to come here and become an American or you don't."{/Q]

Please further elucidate and amplify your above remarks while I continue my research using
Google.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I trust that you and Lincsong will not go down the road of a slugfest. You won't, right? That's the spirit. Good for you both!

Thanking you in advance,
Marc C.


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[Katt in Hat]

look just above Marc. Purely an academic discourse from both of us. You have our assurance on this and I speak also for Lincsong.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I believe you.

 

[Katt in Hat]

Your Confidence is well placed.

Let's see...What is is that Bugs says allatime to Fudd?

Sucka'

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Now I don't believe you.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I am using this whole thread for my son (a Junior in high school) in conjunction with what he is studying in Government and Economics.

Thank you, Gentlemen (and Ladies) for such stellar examples of how to discuss, debate and contemplate an important topic that affects our nation now and will also impact his future.

I am taking Sachet's compliment as something to be lived up to. Hope you will, too. Honestly.

 

[EL COLORADO]

Lincsong:[Q]"There is a unique American Culture, built around private property, rugged individualism and personal responsibility. One language is what binds us together. Either you want to come here and become an American or you don't."{/Q]

Please further elucidate and amplify your above remarks while I continue my research using
Google.

I am looking in these areas:

1. American "Exceptional ism"
2. Nativism Movement
3. Know Nothing Party
4. Alien Exclusionary Acts - 1921&1924

Just do it for yourself and your own knowledge, Katt.
Attempting to engage bare objectivity against fear and hostility,.. is futile.



EC

 

[Katt in Hat]

Marc, Marc, Marc, The Joke followed my ironclad assurances. Really... Road Runner

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I believe you again.

 

[koopkooper]

how do you come to have so many illegal aliens???

As I am from Australia and I don't understand US policies 100% could someone explain to me how you come to have 11 million illegal immigrants??
How did this happen and how do they manage to work.
Could I just deciede to live in LA because I'd like to and pack up and move to your country and stay. Because I can tell you that nobody would get far trying to do that here. Hell we had genuine assylum seekers come here in boats (we call them Boat people)and we just turn them around and say "get in line) We've even fired on them with our naval fleet. This to me sounds like the me me me me society where even the illegals are claiming "rights".
What is the world coming to? Maybe I've got it wrong, but I'd love to hear from Americans as to how you got into this position.
Kooper

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Having lived in California for most of my life, I'll take a stab at answering your questions.

The U.S.A. has a long land border with Mexico. A good part of it runs over some rough, desolate topography that is difficult to monitor. The U.S. states that border Mexico were part of Mexico itself for centuries before the 1840s, although they were sparsely populated by Mexican nationals. And even before Mexico existed, indigenous peoples lived in these areas, until most of them moved south with the rise of the Aztec empire.

At the end of the Mexican-American War, when Mexico ceded the northern lands to the U.S. in the Treaty of Guadelupe Hidalgo (1848), many Mexicans living in those lands suddenly found themselves in newly minted U.S. territories. Depending on the political climate, borders remained more or less porous for the next 110 years or so. In California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas, many mountains, valleys, rivers, lakes, cities, towns and streets still bear the Spanish names they were given before 1848. As recently as the 1920s and '30s, huge numbers of homes, theaters, shops, government buildings, offices, churches, train stations, and even airports in these states were built in the Spanish Colonial (or Mission) style. Even today, the style is reproduced. In the west and southwest, Mexican restaurants are very popular with "gringos" as well as chicanos.

The U.S. has been trying to "consistently" control immigration from Mexico to America since the 1970s. It has not been successful. Meanwhile, Mexico's poor, especially in the south of the country, are getting poorer. Profits from NAFTA (the North American Free Trade Agreement between Mexico and the U.S.) have led to better infrastructure and industry in the Mexico's north, and that's were the the money is staying. Meanwhile, the south starves. Hence, in the last few years, a flood of southern Mexicans (and Guatemalans, Hondurans and Salvadorans even further south) have been trying to enter the the U.S. illegally, and a staggering number of them have succeeded.

... could someone explain to me how you come to have 11 million illegal immigrants??

Mexico is a large country with an enormous population. Most Mexicans are poor: the average salary in Mexico is about five U.S. dollars a day. In America, most illegal aliens can earn that much in an hour - if they find work. The risk is worth it, even if an alien isn't able to work every day. Incredible as it seems, most are able to find jobs of some kind.

Could I just decide to live in LA because I'd like to, and pack up and move to your country and stay?

Many do just that. People from your country (and Europe too) get student visas for six months to one year and then end up staying beyond the expiration dates. Illegal? Absolutely. But most of them never get caught ... and most of them are not poor Mexicans and Central Americans of indigenous or mixed race.


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[Marc Chevalier]

In response to the argument that Mexicans should fight to deeply reform their own country, I wrote earlier that the U.S. government would not want unrest to occur there. I neglected to mention that Mexicans have indeed fought for reform within Mexico -- as recently as the 1990s, in a very poor region called Chiapas. Americans (such as Pat Buchanan) calling for an end to illegal immigration said nothing in support of the Chiapas uprising. Mexicans got the message: the U.S. won't speak out in favor of intrinsic reform within Mexico, let alone lend its support. Perhaps Bill O'Reilly, Lou Dobbs, John & Ken, and the rest should start rallying behind Subcomandante Marcos?


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[scotrace]

Very little activity here yesterday, which I suspect is probably true nationwide once you get outside population centers where "Safety in Numbers" is less... safe. Though we do have a significant chicano population.

Here, the headline today could have been: "Amish Chicken Processing Plant Closes Due to Lack of Hispanic Workers..."

Business as usual.

 

[jp*81]

koopkooper

It is easy for them to get across the border. They use false documents, human trafficking or drive, hike, swim, run, and walk in between the Ports and on government land and private property (that is not closely monitored, some maybe not monitored at all) to get across the border. The border is something like 2,000 miles long.

Some get caught:

In 2004, there were 1.14 million arrests along the border that stretches from California to Texas, the Department of Homeland Security says

The ones that make it find work "under the table" in farms, restaurants, factories, etc. or find no work at all and turn to illegal sources of income.

 

[jp*81]

This is a comment from my newspaper (The Tampa Tribune):

"This is not the typical rally," Tampa Police spokesman Larry McKinnon said. "It's more like a parade than a protest. The event stayed overwhelmingly positive, despite about 60 people stationed at a counterdemonstration site on the south side of Columbus Drive. Many held signs with messages such as "Arrest the illegals" and "Secure the border."

 

[Hondo]

Immigration

In response to the argument that Mexicans should fight to deeply reform their own country, I wrote earlier that the U.S. government would not want unrest to occur there. I neglected to mention that Mexicans have indeed fought for reform within Mexico -- as recently as the 1990s, in a very poor region called Chiapas. Americans (such as Pat Buchanan) calling for an end to illegal immigration said nothing in support of the Chiapas uprising. Mexicans got the message: the U.S. won't speak out in favor of intrinsic reform within Mexico, let alone lend its support. Perhaps Bill O'Reilly, Lou Dobbs, John & Ken, and the rest should start rallying behind Commander Marcos?


.

Mr Chevalier, thank you for that bit of information, and your correct Commander Marcos. Chiapas need support from everyone, not just the Buchanans or O'Reillys. I'm not a writter so excuse me, but in my opinion Mexico could do better than drag down or suppress the poor in the south, keep all the $$$ in the north, heck Mexican Govt. probably says "send dem all to America" rather than make lives better for their people, so much corruption with local and federal Govts in Mexicao.
The whole North and South Continent should be working together.
Thats my two cents worth, Thanks again for the Info.