May Day Boycott

[EL COLORADO]

:beer: Dose of reality...

The "immigrants" that this sudden national public discourse is reffering to is obviously and specifically Mexicans.
Not Chinese,..not French,...not Africans,...Not Greeks....but Mexicans.
That being said.
This is therefore,...not an "immigrant" issue.
It is a "Mexican immigrant" issue.
But that is of course,..coyly being avoided.

That is of couse if this were an issue at all....which it isnt.
Anyone who is astute and perceptive enough will see that this is in REALITY a shallow and misleading piece of propaganda....meant to play most resonantly upon the most basest, unknowledgable, uninformed and reactionary elements in American society.

One small fer instance,..
If the issue of jobs losses,..(which is a central attributable aspect of this "immigrant issue")...was indeed such a minded concern, then where is the equally audible "media" outcry of literally hundreds of US corporations moving entire plants and factories and their thousands of jobs to southeast asia, India, and Mexico???
(silence...)

Folks,...its all phoney baloney.

Further,...the naked heart of the matter,...if you care to digest it,....
...
is that these Mexican "immigrants" arent "Latinos" or "Spanish".
They are brown skinned, black haired INDIAN people.
Native Americans...indigenous to this continent and hemisphere.
They may speak spanish,..they may have a nationalistic identity,...but.... both culturally and racially they are indeed ...INDIAN people.
And their ancestors were all across what was to become the US region,..long before the idea of "borders" ...and even as far as Northern Illinois and even throughout the south east, having enormous influence on indian cultures there ....long before the arrival of Columbus.

So lets call a spade a spade shall we.



Heh, heh.


EC

 

[Katt in Hat]

Plain Spoken Truth

HEAR, HEAR :arated:

::SNIP::That is of couse if this were an issue at all....which it isnt.
Anyone who is astute and perceptive enough will see that this is in REALITY a shallow and misleading piece of propaganda....meant to play most resonantly upon the most basest, unknowledgable, uninformed and reactionary elements in American society.

One small fer instance,..
If the issue of jobs losses,..(which is a central attributable aspect of this "immigrant issue")...was indeed such a minded concern, then where is the equally audible "media" outcry of literally hundreds of US corporations moving entire plants and factories and their thousands of jobs to southeast asia, India, and Mexico???
(silence...)

Folks,...its all phoney baloney.::/SNIP::

 

[Brad Bowers]

Ah, quit playing the "race" card. I hate it when, if something bad happens to someone who is "of color," folks call it a racial issue. It's a freakin' crime issue! I don't care what color they are, if they are breaking the law, they need to face the consequences. If Canada was dirt poor, and Canadians were streaming across the border illegally, I'd think the same thing about them.

Brad

 

[Lincsong]

Illegal is illegal

First of all, this May 1 nonsense is being pushed by the Communist International Answer.

Someone needs to tell these racist groups that are stirring the pot that Mexico LOST the war in 1848. We won California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah fair and square. We even paid Mexico for these areas. It's called the Treaty of Guadelupe. Learn HISTORY! Secondly, Mexico is a greedy, corrupt, ignorant land. It always has been and always will be greedy, corrupt and ignorant. Who's fault is it that Mexico is that way? They need to look right in the mirror. Until they get their act together we in the U.S. have no obligation to them. If they want to come here; learn english. I refuse to speak to any of them on Spanish. And don't insult us by saying this debate is because they are Indians and brown. If you can't argue something on it's merits then don't post. There are sites on the internet that show the real happenings at these rallies.

Now, let's go after the greedy business interests in this country. You know the big fat wind bags who think we should "be so lucky to have right next door to us an unlimited supply of people willing to work for rock bottom wages". These pigs aren't capitalists; they're PIGS! Plain and simple. I'm all for lowering taxes and unnecessary regulations. But, don't give me this line that; "well capitalism requires that we bring in all these workers". That is GLOBALIST not Capitalist. Globalists think that they should scower the world looking for poor people to bring here to work at rock bottom wages.

The end of the sentence is "jobs that Americans won't do at $10 an hour". There are these pig contractors that say; "well, if I paid the American's $15 an hour to dig ditches and hang dry wall I'd lose the bid because someone would come in lower." WRONG! If he doesn't have illegal workers and the other contractor doesn't have illegal workers then the bids would still be proportionally the same. A little higher but proportionally the same. And the bids can be adjusted by materials used. Substitute formica for granite if you can't afford granite.

At my work, the Union warehousemen start at $15 an hour plus benefits, we don't have any problem finding American or LEGAL IMMIGRANTS willing to work for that plus pay the Teamsters a $400 initiation fee and $45 a month in dues.

Or the fat Bovine farmer who's grandfather and father have been sucking up government subisidies since 1934 and whose idea of investing in modern machinery is a Cadillac Escalade for he and his wife rather than a John Deere Tractor. Big deal; so I would have to pay a little more for fruits and vegetables. Here in California, there is a small chain of grocery stores called Trader Joes. They're selling New Zealand apples, four for $2.50. If people are willing to buy 4 apples for $2.50 then I'm sure they'll pay $2.50 for 8 Washington apples in stead of the customary 11.

Then there's that pig restaurant owner; the government allows this swine to deduct 100% of the cost of an SUV as a business expense because he uses it to bring back egss and lard from Restaurant Supply. End this social engineering in the tax code and lower the marginal rates.

 

[shamus]

Why do I feel like tomorrow will be just like Y2K?

 

[jp*81]

The Mexicans are making it a Mexican Issue...

They are the ones who think we are singling them out. I am sure the law is the same no matter what race you are.

I agree. I don't think many people will take part in this boycott. Im sure it is just threats and power trips.

 

[EL COLORADO]

Ah, quit playing the "race" card. I hate it when, if something bad happens to someone who is "of color," folks call it a racial issue.

Ah, its not a person of color card,....its an INDIGENOUS NATIVE AMERICAN card.

It's a freakin' crime issue!!

see above for a more thoughtful and deeper perspective.
see below for a more immediately graspable response.

I don't care what color they are, if they are breaking the law, they need to face the consequences. If Canada was dirt poor, and Canadians were streaming across the border illegally, I'd think the same thing about them.
Brad

Curious that you zero in on this one aspect of my post as opposed to the main point of it,...which was that,...the public is being swayed and steered to direct their attentions through this ultimately shallow piece of trumped propoganda, at powerless dishwashers, farm pickers, and delivery boys,etc. as "criminals".....instead of at the bottom lining multi-billion dollar US corporations that take REAL WAGE jobs abroad.

 

[EL COLORADO]

First of all, this May 1 nonsense is being pushed by the Communist International Answer.

Probably. Them and the cointelpro type provocateurs that make this whole public distractionary back and forth charading issue, and others like it, possible.

Someone needs to tell these racist groups that are stirring the pot that Mexico LOST the war in 1848. We won California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah fair and square. We even paid Mexico for these areas. It's called the Treaty of Guadelupe. Learn HISTORY!

Ooooohhh Goodie Goodie!!
I LOVE history!!
Heres some to enjoy.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/grant/peopleevents/e_mawar.html
additionally...
Ulysses S. Grant, who served in Mexico under both Generals Zachary Taylor and Winfield Scott, commanded the Union forces in the American Civil War, and later became the eighteenth President of the United States, had this to say about the war in his biography and memoirs. ..
"...one of the most unjust wars ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation. It was an instance of a republic following the bad example of European monarchies, in not considering justice in their desire to acquire additional territory."

Secondly, Mexico is a greedy, corrupt, ignorant land. It always has been and always will be greedy, corrupt and ignorant. Who's fault is it that Mexico is that way? They need to look right in the mirror. Until they get their act together we in the U.S. have no obligation to them. If they want to come here; learn english. I refuse to speak to any of them on Spanish.

This is so subjective and factless a retort,..its pointless to debunk.
(sigh..) But I will if you insist.

And don't insult us by saying this debate is because they are Indians and brown. If you can't argue something on it's merits then don't post.

I just did....why arent you commenting on the second and third paragraphs of my post???

Now, let's go after the greedy business interests in this country.

Hmmm...sounds to me right here with this sentence,...like you want to appear as if youre the one who is initiating the entrance into this facet of the issue...but I already touched on it in detail in the second and third paragraphs of my first post.

You know the big fat wind bags who think we should "be so lucky to have right next door to us an unlimited supply of people willing to work for rock bottom wages". These pigs aren't capitalists; they're PIGS! Plain and simple. I'm all for lowering taxes and unnecessary regulations. But, don't give me this line that; "well capitalism requires that we bring in all these workers". That is GLOBALIST not Capitalist. Globalists think that they should scower the world looking for poor people to bring here to work at rock bottom wages.
The end of the sentence is "jobs that Americans won't do at $10 an hour". There are these pig contractors that say; "well, if I paid the American's $15 an hour to dig ditches and hang dry wall I'd lose the bid because someone would come in lower." WRONG! If he doesn't have illegal workers and the other contractor doesn't have illegal workers then the bids would still be proportionally the same. A little higher but proportionally the same. And the bids can be adjusted by materials used. Substitute formica for granite if you can't afford granite.
At my work, the Union warehousemen start at $15 an hour plus benefits, we don't have any problem finding American or LEGAL IMMIGRANTS willing to work for that plus pay the Teamsters a $400 initiation fee and $45 a month in dues.
Or the fat Bovine farmer who's grandfather and father have been sucking up government subisidies since 1934 and whose idea of investing in modern machinery is a Cadillac Escalade for he and his wife rather than a John Deere Tractor. Big deal; so I would have to pay a little more for fruits and vegetables. Here in California, there is a small chain of grocery stores called Trader Joes. They're selling New Zealand apples, four for $2.50. If people are willing to buy 4 apples for $2.50 then I'm sure they'll pay $2.50 for 8 Washington apples in stead of the customary 11.
Then there's that pig restaurant owner; the government allows this swine to deduct 100% of the cost of an SUV as a business expense because he uses it to bring back egss and lard from Restaurant Supply. End this social engineering in the tax code and lower the marginal rates.

I agree with your points in this section.... though the "pig" stuff makes youre points seem more subjective and ultimately,..on the surface, as a result...seem less credible
But I agree with you on this.
Never the less,....these points of view regarding how things "should" be arent based on the REALITY of how this world and western society works.
Beneath the veneer of stability and values....its DOG EAT DOG,...take everything for what you can,....survival of the fittest.
Its only human nature.
And its what built this country and its what made it the economic corporate superpower that it is today.

To not truly and deeply grasp this,.....is in excercise in naive fantasy.

 

[Gray Ghost]

There is a big, fat, wide line between illegal immigrants and legal immigrants. Being a legal immigrant that was raised in the U.S. and served in the U.S. military, I find the fact that few news articles seperate illegal immigrants from legal immigrants insulting.:rage: Why would I as a legal immigrant from So. America want to boycott anything and show support for anyone coming into this country illegally just because I am an immigrant? I think getting into this country should be much more difficult even if you do it legally! After listening to some interviews of protesters here in San Francisco, it seems to me that most of these boycotting fools are not quite sure what it is they are protesting. There were quite a few people claiming they were protesting because "The government wants all the aliens to get out". The spanish T.V. stations interview ONLY people that have that thought process going on. It's almost like a sketch from Saturday Night Live. You can't believe that it is "The News" that is being slanted so much. Now they want to sing the American National Anthem in spanish. I just don't get it.[huh]

I agree with you. There is a big difference between legal and illegal immigration. There is nothing wrong with legal immigration and I feel that it is a slap in the face to all Immigrants that are here legally to just disregard the law. The big issue is border security. If so many are coming in illegaly, then how many terrorist have already come in. It is a scary thought. .Thanks Bebop for your service to our country.

Gray Ghost

 

[Baron Kurtz]

It's been fun ...

I imagine this thread don't have much time left.

Pigs sounds intentionally Orwellian. :eusa_clap

bk

 

[Feraud]

Why do I feel like tomorrow will be just like Y2K?

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap Most perceptive! :eusa_clap:eusa_clap

 

[Story]

Now that the resident FL Trotskyist has chimed in, I'm going to have lunch at Taco Bell today and cut my own grass.

 

[jp*81]

La Migra.....Just Kidding

Along Dale Mabry Highway in Tampa thousands of people are expected to gather around noon and remain most of the afternoon...many will gather outside Raymond James Stadium with signs and flags demanding support from lawmakers.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2006/5/1/156545.html

Why do they want to just stand around?

 

[jp*81]

I guess it isn't all talk...

CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/01/immigrant.day/index.html

 

[Nick Charles]

Maybe we should all stay at home on Cinco de Mayo. That'll show em

 

[Pilgrim]

The issue about employers has long interested me. I'd like to hold forth and make the point that employers are very different in type, and we shouldn't be too fast to load a big share of responsibility on them.

Many of the employers involved in this equation are not businesses of any size at all, they're farmers and very small business owners doing functions such as roof replacement, landscaping, and other jobs involving manual, unskilled or semi-skilled labor.

This is not a new problem, folks. I suspect the (apparently) increasing volume of immigrants entering the US is the real change over the past 10+ years.

In the 1980's I was at Washington State University and produced a documentary which involved footage shot at a number of commercial apple orchards in central WA. Those of you from other areas may not know that WA is a high-producing ag state, and among the crops other than apples are hops (most of the hops which are used in US beer), tree fruits of all kinds, wine grapes, and numerous varieties of row crops.

In short, in season this is a big market for migrant labor, and has been since the late 30's, when dams made irrigation possible in this area.

Frankly, I was worried that when I pulled into the orchard work area in a state car, half the workers would disappear over the hill. But that didn't happen. Although none of them spoke English (remember, this is 20 years ago) they were OK with having us around.

The economy of farm areas like this is based to a significant degree on the seasonal availability of workers to harvet crops. When workers are needed, they are needed NOW - and the year-round population is so small in rural areas that there is no way to fill the need locally. So migrant workers travel a path from the southern US to the northern states every year, following the cyclic and seasonal growth of crops. Over time, some of these workers find areas they really like, so they settle down and take root. Even in the 70's and 80's, there were communities in central WA where Spanish was a common language.

When you get to more urban areas, then small businesses like landscapers and roof repair become more common. The construction business is an example of a business which often employes many immigrants, but rather than focusing on large builder, let's remember there are thousands of small contractors who hire day labor because they can't afford to keep a full crew on payroll year 'round. This is also true for other seasonal businesses that operate in urban areas.

Let's remember that the small business owners who run these operations are just like you and me. They have no human resource specialists to check immigration status, they are the CEO, CFO, janitor and bottle-washer of their business. They don't have special FBI training in how to spot illegal aliens, they don't want it, and they have very limited time to invest in screening applicants for a job that will last two days. When I say limited, I mean they might have 5 minutes or less, because they have a jobsite to get to.

So while I am in sympathy with the theory and goal of having employers comply with immigration laws, there is no point to loading an unrealistic degree of enforcement responsibility on the shoulders of small business employers. Maybe Acme Homes with branches nationwide has a different situation and more ability to screen workers, but Al Powell in Fort Collins, CO with a three-man roofing crew (that rotates weekly) and 90 days of summer in which to make a big part of his living isn't in a good position to start interrogating workers. If they flash a green card that looks legit, what more do you want or expect of him as far as screening?

Please respond quickly, Al has a pickup running outside the 7-11 and needs to be at the jobsite in 30 minutes with three guys to do today's work.

 

[PrettyBigGuy]

Having just recently moved back to the midwest from LA, I got a daily look at illegal aliens everyday. You couldn't drive into a U-Haul or Home Depot parking lot without a whole pack of them jumping in front of your car asking in broken English if you needed a day laborer!
I find the fact that there is an unhindered stream of illegals coming in from the south very disturbing. When was the USA designated as Mexico's welfare system? Aren't the poor of that country Vincente Fox's problem, not George Bush's? If we keep doing this how is Mexico going to solve their problems? Maybe if they couldn't get into the US they would, I don't know, RISE UP AGAINST THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT?! I find it funny that they love Mexico so much, but instead of protesting aginst their own country's policies they protest another country's policies!
I'm so sick and tired of hearing the whole: "America was founded by immigrants" excuse as well! The is a fundimental difference between immigrants and the parasites that are invading the US now. Immigrants move to a country for better opportunities. My great-grandparents came here from Europe and never looked back. They wanted to become AMERICANS. The invaders we are dealing with now HAVE NO INTEREST IN BECOMING AMERICANS. Several families will take up residence in a dwelling intended to house a single family, so the taxes are not paid for all of them. Their children will go to the local public school where the classes are overcrowded with ESL (English as a second language) children. The teachers can't spend the time they need to with each child so the whole class is slowed down and citizen children don't learn as much as they should in a given year. The illegal parents don't pay income tax and instead of putting it back into the US economy, they send the money they make back to Mexico for their families there. When they have saved enough money, rather than buying a home here, they GO BACK TO MEXICO! That is why they don't learn English or go through the trouble of becoming legal citizens. They don't want to! With the money theu made here (tax free) they can buy a nice chunk of property im Mexico.
I'm making generalizations here because obviously not all of them ae doing this, but it IS happening in California!
Of course there also the La Reconquista movement, the re-taking of the American southwest from the USA. So far, I think they are doing a very good job of it and we are letting them! I remember hearing some talk radio discussions about it when I was living in CA:
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=2006041811075776

 

[EL COLORADO]

Maybe we should all stay at home on Cinco de Mayo. That'll show em

Exactly...
Folks,....all this is really ridiculous...and really, really...REALLY sad.
This is all just a distraction....like i said...this is a non-issue.
Its phoney baloney.
Disturbingly, most citizens of this country allow themselves to be spoon fed these kind of mass manipulating distractions, by the media and govt. propoganda, all the time.

Im mean really,...just stop.......stop and think about it.
With the Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor,..enshring the the poem by Emma Lazarus.

"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


This whole thing is ridiculous!

This whole issue and the rabble rousing, it's initiators (the media and government) have successfully caused with it,...is a clear testament to the
easily malleable nature of the American public consciousness.

And THAT is a million times more of a threat to the integrity of this country,..than any low wage "immigrant".




EC

 

[Story]

This whole issue and the rabble rousing, it's initiators (the media and government) have successfully caused with it,...is a clear testament to the
easily malleable nature of the American public consciousness.

EC

Actually, the US government and media have ignored the immigration problem until A) the Anglo anti-illegal immigration protestors started to patrol the border and B) the Atzlan / Reconquista crowd started to organize mass protests. Either you haven't been paying attention, or you're a 'fellow traveler'.

http://www.aztlan.net/newaztlan.gif

 

[Marc Chevalier]

If we keep doing this how is Mexico going to solve their problems? Maybe if they couldn't get into the US they would, I don't know, RISE UP AGAINST THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT?! I find it funny that they love Mexico so much, but instead of protesting aginst their own country's policies they protest another country's policies!

The LAST thing that the United States government wants is for Mexicans to rise up against their own government. I guarantee you that our government would support any Mexican government against its own people -- as long as Mexico doesn't say anything against the U.S., or praise Castro daily (like Venezuela's Chavez does).

I'm so sick and tired of hearing the whole: "America was founded by immigrants" excuse as well! The is a fundimental difference between immigrants and the parasites that are invading the US now. Immigrants move to a country for better opportunities. My great-grandparents came here from Europe and never looked back. They wanted to become AMERICANS. The invaders we are dealing with now HAVE NO INTEREST IN BECOMING AMERICANS.

At present, the illegals (or "invaders", as you call them) are not ABLE to become Americans, even if they want to. Plenty of them have INTEREST in becoming Americans -- and that's why they are supporting a bill that would give them a legal path to citizenship.

When they have saved enough money, rather than buying a home here, they GO BACK TO MEXICO!

Which is exactly what you want them to do. After all, they're illegally here, which means that their options for BEING assimilated are all but nil. Please understand that assimilation is a two-way street. You don't simply choose to assimilate yourself -- you also have to be allowed to assimilate. In other words, you have to be allowed some opportunities. By definition, illegals have doors closed to them because of their status. Hence, the possibility of assimilation is severely curtailed.

That is why they don't ... go through the trouble of becoming legal citizens. They don't want to!

They can't -- unless the U.S. government allows them to. As things now stand, if you're here illegally, you CANNOT become a legal permanent resident; and if you're not a permanent resident, than you can't become a citizen. And if you're still in Mexico and want to legally apply for residency, you're kidding yourself (unless you're a member of that country's ruling elite, who are responsible for the whole mess. Ironically, it is Mexico's upper class, those that rob the country and keep it the corrupt mess that it is, who have the best chance of emigrating legally to the U.S.). Do you have any idea how EXPENSIVE it is to become a U.S. permanent resident? I do. The paperwork is incredible; you have to pay thousands of dollars to Uncle Sam just to apply (without any guarantee of success, of course); and most people have to hire an attorney to make sure that everything is done right. That adds thousands of dollars more to the bill.



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