May Day Boycott

[PrettyBigGuy]

I'd love to hear from Americans as to how you got into this position.
Kooper

Another problem is that the US border patrol is so hamstrung with rules that they are ineffective. I heard an interview with a member of the border patrol who was stationed in San Diego say that they were not allowed to question people that they suspected of being illegal unless they were within a certain distance to the border or in between the border and the Mexican consulate in San Diego!

heck Mexican Govt. probably says "send dem all to America" rather than make lives better for their people, so much corruption with local and federal Govts in Mexicao.
The whole North and South Continent should be working together.

Why should they bother? As long as the poor can find work in the US, The wealthy Mexicans are laughing all the way to the bank, and at the USA!

 

[EL COLORADO]

In response to the argument that Mexicans should fight to deeply reform their own country, I wrote earlier that the U.S. government would not want unrest to occur there. I neglected to mention that Mexicans have indeed fought for reform within Mexico -- as recently as the 1990s, in a very poor region called Chiapas. Americans (such as Pat Buchanan) calling for an end to illegal immigration said nothing in support of the Chiapas uprising. Mexicans got the message: the U.S. won't speak out in favor of intrinsic reform within Mexico, let alone lend its support. Perhaps Bill O'Reilly, Lou Dobbs, John & Ken, and the rest should start rallying behind Commander Marcos?
.

Mr Chevalier, thank you for that bit of information, and your correct Commander Marcos. Chiapas need support from everyone, not just the Buchanans or O'Reillys. I'm not a writter so excuse me, but in my opinion Mexico could do better than drag down or suppress the poor in the south, keep all the $$$ in the north, heck Mexican Govt. probably says "send dem all to America" rather than make lives better for their people, so much corruption with local and federal Govts in Mexicao.
The whole North and South Continent should be working together.
Thats my two cents worth, Thanks again for the Info.

Hondo,...I think you missed that Chev was bein' fecicious about Buchanan/O'Reilly types support
There will NEVER ...EVER.. be support from the US government, much less O'Reilly minded pundints, for true political reform in Mexico.
To think or assume there would be,.. is naive.
Why??
I suggest reading my previous posts carefully for the answer.
(subcomandante) Marcos that Chev speaks of, is the spokesperson and public representitive for the "Zapatistas", in the southernmost state of Chiapas in Mexico,..

The Zapatistas are named after Emiliano Zapata. An indian revolutionary war hero,..during the Revolutionary War of Mexico in 1910, who fought for democratic reform and to return lands to the indians from wealthy spanish descended landowners.
The Zapatistas are a world embracing reformist movement...and more specifically.. ...an INDIAN organization.
They are made up of the various Mayan peoples that live in that State.
Zoques, Tojolobals, Mams, Tzetzals,...etc. And have particularly large bases of support In Europe (Italy, Greece, Spain, etc.)
In their Zapatista communities, they live seperately and autonomously from the Mexican government.
Mostly because the Mexican military (trained in great part by the US military) has conducted,.. for decades....and continues to conduct... a campaign of rape, murder and terroristic tactics against them.
Which was exactly the impetus for the formation of the Zapatistas in the first place!!
By the way,..this oppresive state of affairs exists EVERYWHERE across Latin America,..where indigenous populations predominate (unlike the US, where they dont)...and where they are viewed by the balances of power in this hemisphere as a "threat".
One of the most atrocious examples of this was in Gutemala during the 1980's.

Now,... is the answer as to why the US would not support such a movement becoming a little clearer??

One must keep in mind that in the American Hemisphere,....the majority of the poulation are in fact,... Indians.
Guatemala, Ecuador, El Salvador, Peru, Mexico, etc.
And it has ALWAYS,...since the founding of this country, ...been in the intrests of National security,...that Native poulations not threaten the status quo of power in this region,...or the rest of the Americas.
From a national secutity point of view.......thats just old plain common sense.

EC

 

[jp*81]

PrettyBigGuy

Why should they bother? As long as the poor can find work in the US, The wealthy Mexicans are laughing all the way to the bank, and at the USA!

Sad but true.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The wealthy Mexicans are laughing to the bank, yes ... and most of the money in their pockets is put there by U.S. businesses that do commerce with (and in) Mexico. Business flows smoothly when the status quo is not threatened. If poor Mexicans were to stand up to Mexico's corruption and classism, who do you think would immediately side with that country's business-owning/political elites? The answer: U.S. companies, large and small.

The history of Mexico and the United States -- economic, political, and social -- is more intertwined than most of us know. America long ago "adopted" that country. Mexico's destiny is, in a large sense, determined by ours ... and vice-versa.


.

 

[Lincsong]

So basically nothing really happened yesterday except some people getting together. The internet still worked, the lights came on, the mail was delivered and the grocery stores were still full.

 

[EL COLORADO]

So basically nothing really happened yesterday except some people getting together. The internet still worked, the lights came on, the mail was delivered and the grocery stores were still full.

(sigh)[huh]
Just like i said.......a non issue.

 

[Lincsong]

What did your local media say about it?[huh]

 

[clevispin]

Send Em Home

Secure the borders - north & south. Rotate army units thru to cover the vast territory. Build a fence too. Jack-up my taxes 10% to pay for it.

Deport the illegals. Construction workers, "students", computer programmers etc. No green card - no work. Federalize the local cops to gather them up. Don't stop until the job is done.

Jail every employer that hires an illegal.

Streamline the immigration laws to process thru the neccesary amount of folk required to keep our economic system working.

LAW-BREAKING MUST BE CRUSHED!!! Only the "right" type of people need to be let in. Speaky english. Job prospects. Smart. Desirous to be American. Red, White & Blue, in that order. We got enough poor, lazy, whiny-ass Americans as it is - we don't need to import them.

m

 

[Marc Chevalier]

.... the grocery stores were still full.

Well, I just came back from Trader Joe's, and its frozen foods, produce, and bread sections were all but empty. Cardboard signs were put up, saying "Due to yesterday's protests, we did not receive shipments. Please excuse the inconvenience."

 

[jamespowers]

Well, I just came back from Trader Joe's, and its frozen foods, produce, and bread sections were all but empty. Cardboard signs were put up, saying "Due to yesterday's protests, we did not receive shipments. Please excuse the inconvenience."

How telling. So they use illegal labor knowingly. I will never buy a single thing there ever again if that is the case.
Interestingly, the local NBC station had a slip when they actually said that only 25% of farm labor was affected by the protest. So does that mean there are actually 75% of American citizens who are doing work that "American citizens do not want to do?"
Let's see, the FBI statistics show that 25% of our prison population is made up of illegals. That certainly must cost us something.
I also notice that several hospitals in the southern California area are either closing their emergency rooms or closing all together as a result of not being able to afford to give away healthcare to illegal immigrants. That must cost something.
All I can say is that I didn't notice one iota of difference with them gone one day. I wish it was a year or ten.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Marc Chevalier]

How telling. So they use illegal labor knowingly.

Well, it means that the people who supply the trucks with the goods, and/or the truck drivers, are illegal aliens (or unionized sympathizers). I'm not sure if they work directly for Trader Joe's or not.


.

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Yes, and traffic did get pretty snarled up downtown. In Glendale, all the fast food joints were closed, except for...


Del Taco. lol

 

[Marc Chevalier]

All I can say is that I didn't notice one iota of difference with them gone one day.

Of course you did, James. The freeways and main thoroughfares were free of traffic jams. That was very noticeable.

 

[Katt in Hat]

This Post has been REmoved.

Due to it being a double post.

 

[Lincsong]

Well, it means that the people who supply the trucks with the goods, and/or the truck drivers, are illegal aliens (or unionized sympathizers). I'm not sure if they work directly for Trader Joe's or not.


.

Was this Trader Joe's located where the route was blocked by protesters?

 

[Lincsong]

Counter Protest in Fremont, CA

From Hayward, Daily Review May 2, 2006

Jesse Arias of Newark disagreed. He wondered why current immigrants are not going the legal route to citizenship as his father did in the 1940's when he emigrated from Mexico. "He did it the right way." said Arias while clutching a protest sign. He is also unconcerned whether fellow Latinos might disapprove of his taking part in the counter protest. "(other Latinos) don't like me anyway. We speak English in our house." said Arias, who recently completed a 14 month stint as an Army staff sergeant in the war in Iraq.:eusa_clap When asked if he had ever faced discrimination in growing up Arias replied; "No, because I don't carry myself like a Latino. I always check "white" on a form when I apply for a job because I don't want to be hired just because I'm Latino. I don't want to fill anyone's quota.

Local Section page 5 Rally Backs House Measure
The Hayward Daily Review

 

[fortworthgal]

This topic is a sore spot for me, so I'll try to keep it brief.

There was an interesting article on MSNBC today about how the boycott didn't have *near* the economic impact the protesters had hoped it would.

Personally I just can't get past the word "illegal." To be honest, it is difficult for me to fathom the fact that this is even an issue up for debate. Being in this country undocumented is committing a crime - it is illegal. The same as stealing a car, robbing someone, etc. Those are illegal as well. Any of those would have people up in arms in an instant - yet somehow this illegality is overlooked as being perfectly acceptable. Well, it isn't. It is pretty clear cut, as far as I am concerned.

Yes this country was built on immigrants. My family immigrated, but they did so legally. The country is not built on people who hop a fence at 4 in the morning. I was born in this country, so I have to pay taxes and all the other fun little "inconveniences" that these immigrants don't have to. Yet they get to live here and reap the benefits. Yes, you could say the issue makes me a little angry.

The "illegal" part negates all other arguments, IMHO.

 

[decodoll]

Was this Trader Joe's located where the route was blocked by protesters?

It's entirely possible. Our medical office was unreachable by car during the protest. We had one elderly (latino) woman waiting in our office for hours because paratransit couldn't get back in to pick her up. Another eighty-some-odd old woman in need of a hip replacement I walked four blocks in order to get to a place that the cabs could get to.

I have a friend who immigrated from Japan, and I know a lot of the things she had to go through to do it legally. It wasn't always fun, but it was nothing like this (from another forum that my husband reads):

The following from a director with SW BELL in Mexico City.

I spent five years working in Mexico. I worked under a tourist visa for three months and could legally renew it for three more months. After that you were working illegally. I was technically illegal for three weeks waiting on the FM3 approval.

During that six months our Mexican and US Attorneys were working to secure a permanent work visa called a FM3. It was in addition to my US passport that I had to show each time I entered and left the country. Barbara?s was the same except hers did not permit her to work.
To apply for the FM3 I needed to submit the following notarized originals (not copies) of my:

1. Birth certificates for Barbara and me.

2. Marriage certificate.

3. High school transcripts and proof of graduation.

4. College transcripts for every college I attended and proof of graduation.

5. Two letters of recommendation from supervisors I had worked for at least one year.

6. A letter from The ST. Louis Chief of Police indicating I had no arrest record in the US and no outstanding warrants and was ?a citizen in good standing.?

7. Finally; I had to write a letter about myself that clearly stated why there was no Mexican citizen with my skills and why my skills were important to Mexico. We called it our ?I am the greatest person on earth? letter. It was fun to write.

All of the above were in English that had to be translated into Spanish and be certified as legal translations and our signatures notarized. It produced a folder about 1.5 inches thick with English on the left side and Spanish on the right.

Once they were completed Barbara and I spent about five hours accompanied by a Mexican attorney touring Mexican government office locations and being photographed and fingerprinted at least three times. At each location (and we remember at least four locations) we were instructed on Mexican tax, labor, housing, and criminal law and that we were required to obey their laws or face the consequences. We could not protest any of the government?s actions or we would be committing a felony. We paid out four thousand dollars in fees and bribes to complete the process. When this was done we could legally bring in our household goods that were held by US customs in Loredo Texas. This meant we rented furniture in Mexico while awaiting our goods. There were extensive fees involved here that the company paid.

We could not buy a home and were required to rent at very high rates and under contract and compliance with Mexican law.
We were required to get a Mexican drivers license. This was an amazing process. The company arranged for the licensing agency to come to our headquarters location with their photography and finger print equipment and the laminating machine. We showed our US license, were photographed and fingerprinted again and issued the license instantly after paying out a six dollar fee. We did not take a written or driving test and never received instructions on the rules of the road. Our only instruction was never give a policeman your license if stopped and asked. We were instructed to hold it against the inside window away from his grasp. If he got his hands on it you would have to pay ransom to get it back.

We then had to pay and file Mexican income tax annually using the number of our FM3 as our ID number. The companies Mexican accountants did this for us and we just signed what they prepared. I was about twenty legal size pages annually. The FM 3 was good for three years and renewable for two more after paying more fees.

Leaving the country meant turning in the FM# and certifying we were leaving no debts behind and no outstanding legal affairs (warrants, tickets or liens) before our household goods were released to customs.
It was a real adventure and If any of our senators or congressmen went through it once they would have a different attitude toward Mexico.

The Mexican Government uses its vast military and police forces to keep its citizens intimidated and compliant. They never protest at their White House or government offices but do protest daily in front of the United States Embassy. The US embassy looks like a strongly reinforced fortress and during most protests the Mexican Military surround the block with their men standing shoulder to shoulder in full riot gear to protect the Embassy. These protests are never shown on US or Mexican TV. There is a large public park across the street where they do their protesting. Anything can cause a protest such as proposed law changes in California or Texas.

 

[RedPop4]

DAMN.

 

[Pilgrim]

There was a very interesting interview on NPR yesterday with a gent who owns a landscaping biz in Illinois. He was very supportive of the action, and indicated that in his opinion, the process of trying to become a citizen was incredibly complex and that government was unresponsive, and also that it was nearly impossible for small businessmen like him to avoid hiring illegals.

He mentioned two things that really stuck in my memory and reflect on the processes that are currently used:

- He has workers who applied to become citizens and went through the entire process, every comma and dot. And it took his employees up to 13 YEARS for the US government to follow up and complete the action. This tells me that the citizenship intake process is severely flawed. How many of us would voluntarily engage in a process like that when we could expect that it would take so long?

- He mentioned that there are limitations on the questions that employers can legally ask, as well as limitations on their ability to detect false documents. He is pretty well intimidated by the paper process of working with immigration issues.

This isn't arguing right or wrong - but it points out that the existing system isn't working well, even for those who try to follow it. Small employers have little ability to conform to law, and the citizenship process is so combersome that it's no wonder a lot of people don't even try it.

Fixing these things will be part of dealing with the overall problem.