LUFTWAFFE jackets - Eagles who Dare to Wear..!

[Hawk_Eye]

Having convinced myself that I absolutely MUST have a light spring/summer/fall jacket, I broke down and ordered a black Hartmann from ELC in a 42 long. I got it more for the late 30's, early 40's French bike jacket style, than the Luftwaffe connection, its just a classic looking jacket. My girlfriend isnt exactly thrilled at the moment but she'll get over it 7-8 weeks is a long time to wait....

 

[H.Johnson]

I'm doing some research into French resistance movements and you will find a number of post-invasion (for obvious reasons) photographs of resistance fighters wearing just the sort of jackets that are sold as 'Luftwaffe' jackets.

So - the obvious question - I wonder why are they not called 'Maquis' or French Resistance jackets?

 

[BellyTank]

Then Americans would not buy them...


B
T

 

[Creeping Past]

Nor would the Germans.

 

[nightandthecity]

I'm doing some research into French resistance movements and you will find a number of post-invasion (for obvious reasons) photographs of resistance fighters wearing just the sort of jackets that are sold as 'Luftwaffe' jackets.

So - the obvious question - I wonder why are they not called 'Maquis' or French Resistance jackets?

ha! That is exactly how I think of them!

Also as Spanish Republican jackets.

jackets of this type were widespread in western Europe in the 1930s-50s era. On occassion my LW even fulfills the role of 50s/60s British greaser jacket.

IIRC, the handsome chap in the second pic is an FFI fighter from Chateaubriand 1944. We'll say no more about the old codger in the first pic.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

good to see you natc.

That lower picture is the one i've been thinking of for a while WRT this type of jacket. Chappie seems rather chuffed with himself, eh?

bk

 

[nightandthecity]

hello Baron, good to see you too. I'm afraid I don't get much time to hang out here any more.

There are lots of similar pics available of French Resistance fighters, but that one is quite a famous one and so was easy to find.

I should add that the old codger in the first pic was not consciously dressing as a Maquisard or Spanish Anarchist, it's just that if you wear certain mid-20th century working-class clothes that's what happens.

Though for me French Resisters and Spanish Republicans are much preferable as reference points than the Luftwaffe. If I didn't know that one day I'll probably sell it, I'd take Eastman's Luftwaffe label out of the jacket.

 

[H.Johnson]

And that, NATC old feller, is one of the photographs to which I was referring.

My question was, of course, rhetorical. I endorse your semtiments completely.

I have a humble collection of 1950/60ss greaser jackets, given to me by 1950s/60s greasers.

Who made your Staffordshire dog on the table. by the way?

ha! That is exactly how I think of them!

Also as Spanish Republican jackets.
]

jackets of this type were widespread in western Europe in the 1930s-50s era. On occassion my LW even fulfills the role of 50s/60s British greaser jacket.

IIRC, the handsome chap in the second pic is an FFI fighter from Chateaubriand 1944. We'll say no more about the old codger in the first pic.

 

[nightandthecity]

hello Mr. Johnson!

I have several nice examples of British leather jackets from the 1930s to the mid-1950s, but most of my late 1950s/1960s British Rocker jackets have been moved on to fund other things. I also sold all the European jackets I had......shortly before such jackets started appearing on ebay as "Luftwaffe" jackets and fetching silly money - as always my timing was impeccably wrong!

momentarily off topic: my ex-wife acquired the Staffordshire Spaniel in the early seventies. It has aged since then but was clearly new at the time. There is no maker's name, but a brush mark like the cross of Lorraine (slightly on topic!) which is probably a Chinese character. So probably not genuine. I am not a Staffordshire collector, though I do have four pieces which I bought for the subject matter.....the highwayman Dick Turpin, the prize-fighters Tom Cribb and Tom Molineux, and the street fiddler and one-legged step dancer Billy Waters....from which you can see I have a long standing and probably unhealthy interest in the seamier side of Georgian life!

Back OT: using flight jackets as a reference point for those loungers unused to period civilian jackets, many British and European jackets from the 1930s-50s seem to approximate to either the ELC LW type, or the A2....that is, they tend to have either inset zipped pockets, often at the chest, or flapped patch pockets. In the UK the latter type seems to have predominated up to the mid-1950s, but they existed on the continent too, at least in France and Spain...here's a couple of pics from the Spanish Civil War.

And here another famous FFI pic from Paris 1944 showing another "LW" type (also of interest are the trousers of the central character - they have double rear pockets, rare on 1940s Euro clothing. They look almost like US Army wool pants, but the pocket flaps are not quite the same. In fact this is probably an early appearance of what was to become the standard postwar French Army wool trousers)

 

[H.Johnson]

Excellent! I'll get my wife onto the back mark on the dog. She knows these things.

I'll take the liberty of showing your Spanish CW photos to a Liverpudlian/Spanish friend who studies the said conflict. Maybe he can cast more light on their contents. The guy on the left in the middle photo appears to be a confused re-enactor, stuck between doing The Bridges of Toko-Ri and Indiana Jones and note that a dyslexic person has attempted to write a crude comment on his forage cap...

With regard to civilian jacket pockets, I agree that the horizontally-zipped chest pockets are a feature of the earlier models and are often European rather than British. The 'classic' 1950s/60s British jackets I have seen tend to have (sometimes zipped) slash pockets. WRT trouser pockets, sporting (e.g. golf, ski-ing or cycling) trousers tended to have double rear pockets, and the crossover between sporting and military clothing in the 30s has been noted here before.

Worth a thread on it's own, perhaps we should get off this 'Luftwaffe' topic.

Great to have you back by the way...

 

[nightandthecity]

I love that picture of the two CNT militiamen for the contrast between the two......the chap on the left, as you noticed, looks rather out of place in his hardcore leather jacket and military cap. One suspects he would rather have been at home with pipe and slippers. The young guy, however, is a veritable peacock. I bet every item of that outfit has been carefully chosen....and he probably spent a long time choosing the optimal beret position too. Really, he is the one who should have the leather jacket. Indeed, perhaps he is trying to do a trade...."OK two bottles and a pair of boots".

A reminder that all these young men - whether Luftwaffe pilots or Spanish guerrillas, French resisters or English corner boys - were as style conscious and vain as any young guy today. Many years ago I read a book by a female SOE agent in which she talks about one of her contacts looking "tres maquisard" in his leather jacket, and glancing at himself in every shop window as they walk down the street.

Your trouser pocket comments are very interesting. I have only seen single rear pockets on 1930s/40s British and European civilian trousers (though I've not had many European) but I can well imagine some dedicated sportswear trousers having two, which would explain why some late war military trousers have two.....such as the aformentioned French Army woollens, and the RN Officers' working dress trousers. I'd always put that down to US influence. Actually, in the French case that probably was a factor, but the RNWD's couldn't be more British.

But back to "Luftwaffe" jackets. I bought my ELC off Ebay a few years ago, and according to Gary it is one of the first 10-20 they made. These had a satin rather than a brushed cotton lining, and a smaller gauge centre zip.

It also has a very tight waist, measuring about 34". The narrowness starts just below the pockets - when fastened it goes in quite markedly from there....gives a sort of wine glass look. I have vintage jackets only slightly wider, but always with more give, and never as narrow above the actual waistband. I should add that I am not a fatty - 38 chest, 33 waist (32 plus flabby muscle tone....in fact 32 trousers fit me better than 34) 5ft 7 1/2, and weighing 10 1/2 stone. My question is: are they all made like that or did Eastman change the pattern and widen the waist in later jackets? I have had about a dozen ELCLW's through my hands as a dealer, but all in much bigger sizes so it has been hard to do a comparison, but my impression (also from photos of people wearing their's) is that later jackets are cut wider. Anyone know?

 

[H.Johnson]

Yes, I agree about the subjects of the photograph. It is perhaps too easy to interpret into these two characters the characteristics of the two Anarch0-syndicalist organisations in the Spanish Civil War, the Confederación Nacional del Trabajo (CNT)and the Federación Anarquista Ibérica (FAI). Perhaps allowing my imagination to run away with me, as the gentleman on the left is obviously of the CNT , it is tempting to wonder if the person on the right is of the FAI, and that perhaps each exhibits some of the characteristics of each. Do you know who they are?

The CNT was solidly working class anarchist and the FAI more political/ideological and secretive - we would call them terrorists today - although it eventually became a virtual political party. Juan García Oliver and Buenaventura Durruti (whose funeral is shown in your first photograph) were, of course FAI militants.

I think Eastman may have tweeked its patterns, although you should bear in mind that a jacket could be custom sized to fit its original purchaser. What would you ask for it, may I ask?

 

[nightandthecity]

yes, you could almost see them as representing the two Anarchist organizations!

The irony of the CNT/FAI relationship was that the FAI was founded to keep the CNT on the revolutionary road and away from "reformist" trades unionism, but in the event it was the ordinary workers of the CNT that started to make an Anarchist revolution and the leaders of the FAI who compromised with the state, entered the government, accepted the disbanding of the militias etc etc.

The jacket fits me OK. The waist isn't actually too tight, its more that it's at the very limit. Which is preferable to too baggy and modern. I'd say it's really meant for a guy about 28-30 waist (which I was when 28-30). My plan is to try out others when they come my way and if I find one that I like better I'll sell it then. At the moment I might just sell it if miraculously offered the price of a new one (which is about £420!) but even then I'd want to try on the current model first. I don't trust repro makers to "keep it real"....I hear too many horror stories about "modernized" fit.......

 

[yoyochango]

I bought this German Jacket from Germany some time ago. Paid less than half the amount for an ELC Luftwaffe repro! There is no evidence any insignia was worn on it and it may just be a German bike jacket, but of course not all Luftwaffe jackets had insignia anyway.There were many styles of leather Luftwaffe jackets and I have seen identical ones with the full insignia. It is made of cowhide and has a nice grain. The zips are all by Zip. The main zip slider is a deco Zipp replacement as the original cast slider had lost its puller. It's a very comfortable jacket to wear and I love the square, slightly padded shoulders.

Gorgeous Jacket man!

 

[Hawk_Eye]

Can any Hartmann owners testify as to the thickness of the grey plaid lining? Is it comparable to say, the cotton lining in an A-2 or is it thicker than that?

 

[Dinerman]

I ran across this on ebay. I'd be interested to see what the actual jacket looks like.

original

 

[m000m000]

I ran across this on ebay. I'd be interested to see what the actual jacket looks like.

Less than a hundred bucks for the jacket, seller from India, and the catalouge pictures seems to be rips from various fashion mags/catwalk photo shoots instead of the actual seller's products.


Not saying it can't possibly be good, but that's enough warning signs to keep me away without some positive buzz from reputable people.

 

[johnnyjohnny]

en VoGUE

yeah, i think i saw that top pic in Men's Vogue...tho i much prefer women's Vogue...better than playboy if you ask me ;D

 

[GHQ1]

US Wings Luftwaffe Jacket

My apologies if this was discussed previously . . .Couldn't find anything in a quick search . .

Looks like a collision between the ELC Brown Hartmann & ELC black Luftwaffe jackets

http://www.uswings.com/fighterjac.asp

With a $300 discount they must be stuck with a few of them . .

 

[Charlie]

In a rare relativly "large" size (medium in fact), from I guess the end of the 30's