Kreosote Boots

[Biff42]

I don’t see it either.

I'm not a business man myself... but the 90K is more like revenue rather than gross profit (nothing has been expensed out yet). I don't know enough about manufacturing heritage boots to know the costs involved - but unless it's a brand that operates at scale like Red Wings, I doubt niche operators like Kreosote are able to get enough of a margin where they can go full-time.

I don't get the impression that he's making serious $$$$ and intends to scam his customers/followers. There’s much easier ways to do that like coming up with a catch phrase (*cough* Hawk Tuah *cough*) and launching your own crypto

Strikes me more as someone who is passionate about making boots, has gotten in over his head and unable to run an efficient business, is struggling to keep the lights on and is desperately accepting more and more orders and collabs for down the line to fund his current operating expenses. That's probably why he can't even refund anybody... the money's gone.

That's just my opinion - and that's without factoring any personal struggles he may have which we all go through sometimes.

Well said. Also, I cannot imagine the stress of having a backlog of paid orders going 4-5 years in the future. For example, what if inflation keeps getting worse over the next few years? The cost of your inputs would go up and you cannot raise the price for orders already paid.

It makes no sense.

 

[Biff42]

I don’t see it either.

I'm not a business man myself... but the 90K is more like revenue rather than gross profit (nothing has been expensed out yet). I don't know enough about manufacturing heritage boots to know the costs involved - but unless it's a brand that operates at scale like Red Wings, I doubt niche operators like Kreosote are able to get enough of a margin where they can go full-time.

I don't get the impression that he's making serious $$$$ and intends to scam his customers/followers. There’s much easier ways to do that like coming up with a catch phrase (*cough* Hawk Tuah *cough*) and launching your own crypto

Strikes me more as someone who is passionate about making boots, has gotten in over his head and unable to run an efficient business, is struggling to keep the lights on and is desperately accepting more and more orders and collabs for down the line to fund his current operating expenses. That's probably why he can't even refund anybody... the money's gone.

That's just my opinion - and that's without factoring any personal struggles he may have which we all go through sometimes.

He also mentions on his site that each pair takes 70 hours if we take 70X35=2,450 hours in a year. As someone else mentioned, if he's netting a 50% profit margin (which I highly doubt), he's only making about $18-19/hour. This doesn't account for taxes, health insurance, retirement, etc. Amazon DSP drivers make about that with benefits including health insurance and time off.

I wouldn't give this guy any of my money and would get an attorney to write a demand letter for my money back.

 

[bigmanbigtruck]

He also mentions on his site that each pair takes 70 hours if we take 70X35=2,450 hours in a year. As someone else mentioned, if he's netting a 50% profit margin (which I highly doubt), he's only making about $18-19/hour. This doesn't account for taxes, health insurance, retirement, etc. Amazon DSP drivers make about that with benefits including health insurance and time off.

I wouldn't give this guy any of my money and would get an attorney to write a demand letter for my money back.

Exactly, it makes no sense.

Hate to see someone talented, who wants to pursue their passion and craft, struggling to make ends meet - but taking on 4-5 years worth of orders to fund the current round is just not sustainable. I wouldn't give him any of my money either.

 

[MrProper]

That's why I wrote about a pyramid system a few pages earlier. Certainly not an intended one, but probably one born out of necessity. Perhaps not even consciously, but in the end it will come down to that.

 

[BlueAltitudes]

If it weren't for the extremely long wait and reading some of these posts in here I might certainly be inclined to buy a pair of those Viridian boots he has right now. I think they look amazing but the price + WAIT time is a steep one two punch.

 

[Biff42]

If it weren't for the extremely long wait and reading some of these posts in here I might certainly be inclined to buy a pair of those Viridian boots he has right now. I think they look amazing but the price + WAIT time is a steep one two punch.

Right, he's likely losing money or breaking even and building a house of cards. I'd stay far away.

 

[milkbaby]

He also mentions on his site that each pair takes 70 hours if we take 70X35=2,450 hours in a year. As someone else mentioned, if he's netting a 50% profit margin (which I highly doubt), he's only making about $18-19/hour. This doesn't account for taxes, health insurance, retirement, etc. Amazon DSP drivers make about that with benefits including health insurance and time off.

I wouldn't give this guy any of my money and would get an attorney to write a demand letter for my money back.

I'm in the USA, so I don't know what the legal situation is in other countries, but I pay my lawyer $350 an hour and gave him a $4000 retainer upfront. A deadbeat getting a letter from a lawyer is absolutely no different than getting a letter from me because they don't have any money or assets to seize.

The amount involved is under the limit for small claims court in pretty much all locales in the USA, and most people can file a case online and pay the corresponding fee, probably between $50-150 depending on the amount they're trying to recover. Even if you get a judgement against them, the defendant can just ignore your request for payment of judgement, and then you have to file another legal action to try and collect. Of course, this goes back to the fact that they probably don't have any money or assets, so they're basically untouchable with respect to being sued.

Now you might say if they try to apply for employment somewhere, this might show on a background check and scuttle their shot at gainful employment. Now the person who you sued has even less ability to pay you!

 

[Tom71]

I'm in the USA, so I don't know what the legal situation is in other countries, but I pay my lawyer $350 an hour and gave him a $4000 retainer upfront. A deadbeat getting a letter from a lawyer is absolutely no different than getting a letter from me because they don't have any money or assets to seize.

The amount involved is under the limit for small claims court in pretty much all locales in the USA, and most people can file a case online and pay the corresponding fee, probably between $50-150 depending on the amount they're trying to recover. Even if you get a judgement against them, the defendant can just ignore your request for payment of judgement, and then you have to file another legal action to try and collect. Of course, this goes back to the fact that they probably don't have any money or assets, so they're basically untouchable with respect to being sued.

Now you might say if they try to apply for employment somewhere, this might show on a background check and scuttle their shot at gainful employment. Now the person who you sued has even less ability to pay you!

I am sure you can find a lawyer picking this up for a small fee. It’s not exactly rocket science.

This is about keeping the guys tied up in dealing with you instead of attending to their business. Litigation is more dangerous for them than for you, as it can eventually get them out of business while it’s more or less just a nuisance for you. In that scenario I’d say you stand a good chance they’d just refund you.

 

[Biff42]

I am sure you can find a lawyer picking this up for a small fee. It’s not exactly rocket science.

This is about keeping the guys tied up in dealing with you instead of attending to their business. Litigation is more dangerous for them than for you, as it can eventually get them out of business while it’s more or less just a nuisance for you. In that scenario I’d say you stand a good chance they’d just refund you.

Tom, 100%.

OP can leverage a formal complaint with the MO Attorney General as recourse for not getting their deposit back, in the verbiage of the demand letter.

This isn't expensive and shouldn't require a "retainer," LOL. Heck, you could probably do it on Legal Zoom.

Remember "Gabbard" is spending 70 hours making one pair of freaking boots, he ain't got time for all this.