Kreosote Boots

[Biff42]

I don’t see it either.

I'm not a business man myself... but the 90K is more like revenue rather than gross profit (nothing has been expensed out yet). I don't know enough about manufacturing heritage boots to know the costs involved - but unless it's a brand that operates at scale like Red Wings, I doubt niche operators like Kreosote are able to get enough of a margin where they can go full-time.

I don't get the impression that he's making serious $$$$ and intends to scam his customers/followers. There’s much easier ways to do that like coming up with a catch phrase (*cough* Hawk Tuah *cough*) and launching your own crypto

Strikes me more as someone who is passionate about making boots, has gotten in over his head and unable to run an efficient business, is struggling to keep the lights on and is desperately accepting more and more orders and collabs for down the line to fund his current operating expenses. That's probably why he can't even refund anybody... the money's gone.

That's just my opinion - and that's without factoring any personal struggles he may have which we all go through sometimes.

Well said. Also, I cannot imagine the stress of having a backlog of paid orders going 4-5 years in the future. For example, what if inflation keeps getting worse over the next few years? The cost of your inputs would go up and you cannot raise the price for orders already paid.

It makes no sense.

 

[Biff42]

I don’t see it either.

I'm not a business man myself... but the 90K is more like revenue rather than gross profit (nothing has been expensed out yet). I don't know enough about manufacturing heritage boots to know the costs involved - but unless it's a brand that operates at scale like Red Wings, I doubt niche operators like Kreosote are able to get enough of a margin where they can go full-time.

I don't get the impression that he's making serious $$$$ and intends to scam his customers/followers. There’s much easier ways to do that like coming up with a catch phrase (*cough* Hawk Tuah *cough*) and launching your own crypto

Strikes me more as someone who is passionate about making boots, has gotten in over his head and unable to run an efficient business, is struggling to keep the lights on and is desperately accepting more and more orders and collabs for down the line to fund his current operating expenses. That's probably why he can't even refund anybody... the money's gone.

That's just my opinion - and that's without factoring any personal struggles he may have which we all go through sometimes.

He also mentions on his site that each pair takes 70 hours if we take 70X35=2,450 hours in a year. As someone else mentioned, if he's netting a 50% profit margin (which I highly doubt), he's only making about $18-19/hour. This doesn't account for taxes, health insurance, retirement, etc. Amazon DSP drivers make about that with benefits including health insurance and time off.

I wouldn't give this guy any of my money and would get an attorney to write a demand letter for my money back.

 

[bigmanbigtruck]

He also mentions on his site that each pair takes 70 hours if we take 70X35=2,450 hours in a year. As someone else mentioned, if he's netting a 50% profit margin (which I highly doubt), he's only making about $18-19/hour. This doesn't account for taxes, health insurance, retirement, etc. Amazon DSP drivers make about that with benefits including health insurance and time off.

I wouldn't give this guy any of my money and would get an attorney to write a demand letter for my money back.

Exactly, it makes no sense.

Hate to see someone talented, who wants to pursue their passion and craft, struggling to make ends meet - but taking on 4-5 years worth of orders to fund the current round is just not sustainable. I wouldn't give him any of my money either.

 

[MrProper]

That's why I wrote about a pyramid system a few pages earlier. Certainly not an intended one, but probably one born out of necessity. Perhaps not even consciously, but in the end it will come down to that.

 

[BlueAltitudes]

If it weren't for the extremely long wait and reading some of these posts in here I might certainly be inclined to buy a pair of those Viridian boots he has right now. I think they look amazing but the price + WAIT time is a steep one two punch.

 

[Biff42]

If it weren't for the extremely long wait and reading some of these posts in here I might certainly be inclined to buy a pair of those Viridian boots he has right now. I think they look amazing but the price + WAIT time is a steep one two punch.

Right, he's likely losing money or breaking even and building a house of cards. I'd stay far away.

 

[milkbaby]

He also mentions on his site that each pair takes 70 hours if we take 70X35=2,450 hours in a year. As someone else mentioned, if he's netting a 50% profit margin (which I highly doubt), he's only making about $18-19/hour. This doesn't account for taxes, health insurance, retirement, etc. Amazon DSP drivers make about that with benefits including health insurance and time off.

I wouldn't give this guy any of my money and would get an attorney to write a demand letter for my money back.

I'm in the USA, so I don't know what the legal situation is in other countries, but I pay my lawyer $350 an hour and gave him a $4000 retainer upfront. A deadbeat getting a letter from a lawyer is absolutely no different than getting a letter from me because they don't have any money or assets to seize.

The amount involved is under the limit for small claims court in pretty much all locales in the USA, and most people can file a case online and pay the corresponding fee, probably between $50-150 depending on the amount they're trying to recover. Even if you get a judgement against them, the defendant can just ignore your request for payment of judgement, and then you have to file another legal action to try and collect. Of course, this goes back to the fact that they probably don't have any money or assets, so they're basically untouchable with respect to being sued.

Now you might say if they try to apply for employment somewhere, this might show on a background check and scuttle their shot at gainful employment. Now the person who you sued has even less ability to pay you!

 

[Tom71]

I'm in the USA, so I don't know what the legal situation is in other countries, but I pay my lawyer $350 an hour and gave him a $4000 retainer upfront. A deadbeat getting a letter from a lawyer is absolutely no different than getting a letter from me because they don't have any money or assets to seize.

The amount involved is under the limit for small claims court in pretty much all locales in the USA, and most people can file a case online and pay the corresponding fee, probably between $50-150 depending on the amount they're trying to recover. Even if you get a judgement against them, the defendant can just ignore your request for payment of judgement, and then you have to file another legal action to try and collect. Of course, this goes back to the fact that they probably don't have any money or assets, so they're basically untouchable with respect to being sued.

Now you might say if they try to apply for employment somewhere, this might show on a background check and scuttle their shot at gainful employment. Now the person who you sued has even less ability to pay you!

I am sure you can find a lawyer picking this up for a small fee. It’s not exactly rocket science.

This is about keeping the guys tied up in dealing with you instead of attending to their business. Litigation is more dangerous for them than for you, as it can eventually get them out of business while it’s more or less just a nuisance for you. In that scenario I’d say you stand a good chance they’d just refund you.

 

[Biff42]

I am sure you can find a lawyer picking this up for a small fee. It’s not exactly rocket science.

This is about keeping the guys tied up in dealing with you instead of attending to their business. Litigation is more dangerous for them than for you, as it can eventually get them out of business while it’s more or less just a nuisance for you. In that scenario I’d say you stand a good chance they’d just refund you.

Tom, 100%.

OP can leverage a formal complaint with the MO Attorney General as recourse for not getting their deposit back, in the verbiage of the demand letter.

This isn't expensive and shouldn't require a "retainer," LOL. Heck, you could probably do it on Legal Zoom.

Remember "Gabbard" is spending 70 hours making one pair of freaking boots, he ain't got time for all this.

 

[vividIT]

Any update on your order?

I'm interested in the brand and saw on his site that he does 35 pairs yearly. His latest boot is going for $2550. $2550 X35 is roughly $90K gross profit in a year. I'm assuming he uses premium materials for the boots, runs a website, does other marketing, has tools/machines that need to be repaired/replaced, etc.

Maybe someone here with a good business acumen can break down how he makes any money doing this because I'm not seeing it. It would be more profitable to work a regular 9-5 and do this in his spare time.

Maybe that's what he does?

Just giving you an update, Kreosote did end up refunding my money and paid in full.

 

[bigmanbigtruck]

Just giving you an update, Kreosote did end up refunding my money and paid in full.

That's good news you got your refund.
I think the natural question after your 3-4 year ordeal is, what boots you getting next? lol

 

[Aloysius]

Just giving you an update, Kreosote did end up refunding my money and paid in full.

Now that you're safe, suggest to him that he refund everyone and abandon this obviously impossible business scheme.

 

[Biff42]

That's good news you got your refund.
I think the natural question after your 3-4 year ordeal is, what boots you getting next? lol

He's going for a bespoke pair of boots made from ultra-rare woolly mammoth leather preserved in Siberian ice

 

[Aloysius]

I'm not being a hater or something as is sometimes thought here.

It makes me sad both as a customer of small firms and as someone who's interested in the continuation of these crafts that the workwear space has become a haven for operations like this, running on this accidental ponzi model.

The firm red devil and I just ordered shirts from is a maker-owned operation that has been in business since 2010 (and the maker was at other firms before that) that manages to turn out a high end bespoke product with consistent quality and fit for customers around the world. There are quite a few guys like this, and none of them are doing this business model that seems to be used to specifically target us in the workwear 'community'. Kind of feels like we're being fleeced because they know which words and references will work on us rather than letting the work speak for itself.

 

[bigmanbigtruck]

He's going for a bespoke pair of boots made from ultra-rare woolly mammoth leather preserved in Siberian ice

There's probably a Kreo-Chort out there "building" a pair of those right now

 

[Aloysius]

I'm reading his site now and there's a part where he's showing off about not having apprentices lol, meanwhile also going on about reviving traditional crafts.

There isn't an Apprenticeship program set up or any work-shop Assistants here at KREOSOTE, the highest level of quality is managed throughout the process as I build each boot to the Clients MTM specifications, guaranteeing the Client receives the most uniquely built functioning work of Labor and attention to detail that I can provided.

The whole way traditional crafts operate is that you pass on what you know. To me it's a red flag if you don't want to train anyone...

 

[navetsea]

sometime hype is creating a problem for small operation like this, unless he is very strict with his monthly slots, He should say no if his slot is full, don't keep accepting more and more orders until the number become unimaginable and living a life in debt full obligation to make hundreds of orders