If you had to be a historical mobster who would you be?

["Skeet" McD]

A world-wide phenomenon....

Rózsa Sándor (1813-1878)- outlaw, cattle thief, robber, killer he became our 'Robin Hood'
He spent his active years either on the run or in prison- what a romantic life

Dear HT,
Now HERE's someone entirely new to me! Tell me: was there a political element to his popularity? Many times, it seems, with these folk heros there is: whether that was actually intended by the individual, used by them as a convenience, or just grafted on by the people themselves as part of the folk process. Is he still a major presence in the Hungarian memory, like Jesse James, Capone or Dillinger are here in the US?

Interesting clothes: traditional folk clothing, or some sort of Hungarian outerwear?

Thanks!
"Skeet"

 

["Skeet" McD]

I was just saying that I do not think that the rebs or huns were doing it just because somebody has to. I suspect that the rebs find something worth emulating, that does not include slavery, such as states rights, independence, love of home and family. and I think that the german reenactors either have a respect for the german army, aside from the politics of their leadership, or just think the uniforms are cool, which they definitely are. The German army was a fascinating entity. And I don't think you have to be a nazi or racist or whatever to admire certain things about them.

We actually have a couple of period cop/gangster reenactors here on the FL, and I'm a little surprised they haven't weighed in on this....perhaps they took one look and decided... ...well, maybe they just haven't looked . We may hope...

But, while it would be interesting to hear their take on why they do what they do...it looks like they are doing it very well; here's the URL for their site. Be sure to get to the photo albums:
http://publicenemiesof1934.shutterfly.com/

 

[Feraud]

a bad Italian gone good..

Not quite on topic, but it fits in.

I would be the character portrayed by Andy Garcia in the film The Untouchables. He has all the good attributes of a mobster: good fedora worn properly, good dress sense (I like the way he wears a leather jacket but makes it look smart), slicked back hair, Italian ancestry and handy with two revolvers. However he does not share the bad mobster habits such as inhumane killing.

Garcia was one of the good guys in that film, wasn't he? Those Italians can be tricky to pin down..

 

[celtic]

It's a two-way street. Lighten up? Good idea. Grow a thicker skin? Just as good.

I wish to have an open forum where all members (even new ones) are willing to swim upstream at times.

You might be surprised to find that my skin is as figuratively thick as it is literally. In fact, there was a time where I would argue (and belittle... ) over the most minute and seemingly unimportant things known to man. As of late, I find less joy in arguing on the interweb and find myself unplugging and trying to find joy in what I find to be more constructive areas. This is not to say that online discussions are unimportant or less significant than MY life, but just to perhaps give you an idea of where I am sitting. When I find something which I object to, now I take a breath before posting, or even move on to the next thread. I just find life less stressful and more positive when I argue less. Is this becoming a new character flaw? I simply do not know.

I am NOT telling you how this website should be run, nor do I claim to know or understand the intent of it or its founders. I understand that there are many here who have invested a great deal, and I am not trying to insult them. I am simply offering a perspective that perhaps some did not know existed.

I will NOT single out posts which I have found to be elitist or condescending, for a couple of reasons. One reason is that I do not choose to argue this point any further. Another reason would be that to do so would smack of hypocrisy as I have in the past been an instigator or troll of the highest order, and also have made incendiary comments in jest or anger that I might not (after more careful thinking) post this day. My post earlier was not to chastise, but was an attempt at making one think before posting.

I am sorry if this has not made my thoughts more clear, but I really would like to end my thoughts on this here. Hey, that rhymed.

My exact idea? Is English grammar completely relative, then?

.

A word of advice to the Spelling and Grammar Police:

This new cat talks like a mobster.
Supposedly a pen is mightier than the sword, but is a keyboard mightier than a Tommy Gun?


P.S.

topic at hand

I was once referred to as looking like ' A bagman for the Molly Malones', so I'll go with that.

The original poster is the spittin* image of Calogero from "A Bronx Tale" who incidentally became a real live gangsta*.


*just helpin out da Speln & Grammer Five-O

 

[Paisley]

A word of advice to the Spelling and Grammar Police:

This new cat talks like a mobster.
Supposedly a pen is mightier than the sword, but is a keyboard mightier than a Tommy Gun?

Spelling and grammar threads always go downhill.

 

[Ghostsoldier]

As for this thread, I wish those who were not interested would just keep it to themselves and let those who are have their fun. You don't have to make every opinion you have heard. Too many threads are ruined by the "I disagree" and the "not me" crowd.

Trust me, you don't want to hear every opinion I have on many threads.

Amen, brother...I agree wholeheartedly! A lot of folks just have to weigh in to voice an irrelevant opinion (as to being "good"or "bad"), instead of just passing the thread by if they don't agree with it...the "live, and let live" is a good mantra to follow...besides, this thread is just for fun....

I think I'd want to be an Irish mobster, mainly because of my ancestral heritage and genealogy...if I had to be one by name, though, it would probably be George "Machine Gun" Kelly, or the Italian "Machine Gun" Jack McGurn...strictly on the connotation of the nick-names....
Rob "The Chopper" D

 

[Edward]

from what ive read yes ronnie was an emotionally disturbed man and was the ruthless and the more violent of the two brothers. while they werent alterboys i dont think they deserved the long prison sentence they recived compared to the kinds of more evil things that get done in the usa and some convicts get a time out with a dunce cap or just walk. just shows you that britain's court system doesnt play games.

I certainly believe that they were 'made an example of' - especially later on, when they were not given options for parole etc which would have been available had notg they been so infamous, and had they not been such a headache for the Yard for so long. Similar to Myra Hindley, in that respect, although I have long believed that even if she had not been kept inside for largely political reasons, there's no way that she could have been released for her own safety. I'm always fascinated by the way someone can become a celebrity via infamy, which can lead to their treatment being very very different while yet society tells them that they must be bound by the same standards as us all. Fascinating complexity of issues which arises there.

 

[Fedord Spaniard]

for all you crime history buffs

today marks the 78th anniversary of the masseria hit in brooklyn. that event ended the castellamarese war and made way for the creation of the five families here in new york.

 

[Fedord Spaniard]

Davey Berman - An early early Las Vegas frontman.

i remember readin about this guy... if i remember right berman was one of the guys that walked into the flamingo with sedway and took over it right after siegel was taken out

 

[HungaryTom]

[QUOTE="Skeet" McD]Dear HT,
Now HERE's someone entirely new to me! Tell me: was there a political element to his popularity? Many times, it seems, with these folk heros there is: whether that was actually intended by the individual, used by them as a convenience, or just grafted on by the people themselves as part of the folk process. Is he still a major presence in the Hungarian memory, like Jesse James, Capone or Dillinger are here in the US?

Interesting clothes: traditional folk clothing, or some sort of Hungarian outerwear?

Thanks!
"Skeet"[/QUOTE]
Dear Skeet,

The golden age of these outlaws (bety’ar) was the 1700s - 1860s. Hungarians were subjects of the Habsburg empire, peasants were drafted for the Imperial and Royal Army for 7 years or longer service that was guaranteed due in the other corner of the empire plus there was the strong likelihood of being slaughtered in a remote battlefield of Europe in a senseless foreign war. Besides that there was a misery of bonds so many young people were escaping from this fate and ended up as robbers.

The natural landscape was also favourable as only one fifth of the area was cultivated around 1800 and the rest were marshes, riverine forests abandoned places as a legacy of the centuries old Habsburg - Ottoman wars depopulating the Hungarian Great Plains which totally lacked industrialization. The extensive breeding of cattle and horses made the countryside ideal for such outlaws.

Rózsa Sándor came from poor conditions, he was illiterate and begun his career at 23 when his dad was hanged of stealing some horses. He was born and raised in the great plains of SE Hungary around the town of Szeged. He knew the locale by heart as a prairie guy he was smart enough to have a network of complices who helped him to hide them from the authorities. Each time he was caught it was some locals who traded them to the gendarmes.

During the revolution of 1848 against the Habsburgs Rózsa Sándor was actually meeting Kossuth, the leader of the Revolution who asked him to organize an irregular troop. That was a cavalry of 150 wearing such traditional horsemen robes (outerwear), armed with their whips and handguns being very good skirmishers. This romantic idea backfired, since they were used to the looting and weren’t disciplined soldiers. The Minister of Defence has actually dissolved the unit since they were of more harm than use, however Rózsa Sándor got boosted in the pantheon of folklore. Yes he became a hero, and the subject of legends. There are naturally the stories of romance.

One folklore program on radio compared him with Jesse James and Ned Kelly who only took the money of the rich and would give it to the poor and alike. Local folklore where he was active remembers what he actualy did. This goes also for other, less famous but still well known outlaws from other regions of Hungary. There are folk songs, ballads and even a TV series was made about him in the seventies.

The world of the outlaws ended after 1867, when Habsburgs stopped the colonist way of treating our country. At the same time industrialization begun, the infrastructure got better, rivers were regulated, marshes were dried out, telegraphs emerged, gendarmerie was formed from local villagers who were considered as protectors instead being the collaborants of the occupational power.

The option of emigrating into the New World also emerged for those adventurers who wanted to try their luck.

 

[Fedord Spaniard]

The original poster is the spittin* image of Calogero from "A Bronx Tale" who incidentally became a real live gangsta*.


*just helpin out da Speln & Grammer Five-O

hahaha you guys dont have to worry about me ever gettin bent cause i just dont have the ear plugs to ignore my conscience and dont have the heart to get arrested. yea that guy from that movie unfortunately made some bad choices and literally "wasted his talent" which was the whole message of that movie of somethin not to do. but hopefully he turns his life around and is back doin movies.

 

[Tomasso]

Fedord Spaniard, I'm not the stickler for grammar and spelling that some are but would you please capitalise and punctuate your sentences; they are borderline unreadable.

 

["Skeet" McD]

The golden age of these outlaws (bety’ar) was the 1700s - 1860s....During the revolution of 1848 against the Habsburgs Rózsa Sándor was actually meeting Kossuth, the leader of the Revolution who asked him to organize an irregular troop. That was a cavalry of 150 wearing such traditional horsemen robes (outerwear), armed with their whips and handguns being very good skirmishers. This romantic idea backfired, since they were used to the looting and weren’t disciplined soldiers.

Dear Tom, thanks so much for taking the time to give such a good background: much appreciated! The "Kossuth" hat was taken over by the US military in the 1850s and was the dress hat through our civil war...is that, in fact, what Sándor is wearing (can't see the full crown)? As I'm sure you know, our Jesse James was a member of a similar irregular cavalry unit in that war...he also couldn't quite play by the rules I guess they call them "irregular" for good reasons....

"Skeet"

 

[Marc Chevalier]

A lot of folks just have to weigh in to voice an irrelevant opinion (as to being "good"or "bad"), instead of just passing the thread by if they don't agree with it...

Or instead of just closing the thread down.


.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

My 2nd favorite mafia bloke is ... LUIGI VERCOTTI.


(Vercotti ran a high class nightclub for the gentry at Biggleswade, with international cuisine, and cooking, and top line acts, and not a cheap clip joint for picking up tarts -- that was right out, he denied that completely.)

.....

.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Amen, brother...I agree wholeheartedly! A lot of folks just have to weigh in to voice an irrelevant opinion (as to being "good"or "bad"), instead of just passing the thread by if they don't agree with it...the "live, and let live" is a good mantra to follow...besides, this thread is just for fun....

The idea that everyone should leave threads they don't agree with 'alone' or not post because they have an irrelevant (and who decides if its irrelevant anyhow?, besides bartender types) opinion......sort of goes against the 'Discussion Board' idea.....

If someone has wasted 3 minutes to come into a thread they obviously feel their opinion on its topic is important enough to waste that time...it was important enough of an issue to them to say 'wow, I don't like folks glorifying that, I think I shall express that, as maybe they don't realize the impact of the topic'

and while sure, not everyone posts to every topic...when people do, their opinions are not irrelevant, if they have decided to share.

Otherwise this place becomes a 'only post to threads you agree with' sort of place....not a discussion board.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

.



One possible solution (among several) is for a thread's creator to attach the phrase "Please Don't Express Disagreement with This Thread's Premise" to the title.

.

 

[Paisley]

Requesting that threads stay on-topic is OK. Certain threads will immediately veer off course without intervention.

Tolerating polite disagreement and discussing those points as mature adults is good. Taking disagreement personally isn't good.

Reading posts carefully prevents misunderstandings and will almost always show (at the FL, anyway) that the comments are directed towards an idea, not the person expressing them.

 

[Tomasso]

.

One possible solution (among several) is for a thread's creator to attach the phrase "Please Don't Express Disagreement with This Thread's Premise" to the title.



.

Good idea......

(Incidentally, to keep the thread steady and clean, I respectfully ask that any disagreements be expressed via PM to me and/or the person whose outfit is in question, rather than posted here. Thanks for your understanding!)




.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Good idea......

Glad you think so. As your second quote shows, I essentially followed the first quote's advice.


.