How many new jackets do you have coming (and how many potential ones)?

[Canuck Panda]

Edited: Bruce is retired. He is just working through his old stock. Still a great guy! Will report on the current Dyer leather when it gets here.

Two parts post: Langlitz and Walter Dyer

Langlitz
@jonbuilder I tried to order any padded Cascade. Horsehide was not my MO. I am only after the famous Cascade pattern. I am not sure about the Columbia tail design. But this is the current catalogue now. Please post your Langlitz!

I skipped the pants section.

And about Walter Dyer
I remember very clearly seeing a super thick leather and soft jacket here. And I was shocked how the leather looked and other members were kind to whisper the name "Walter Dyer". Somehow that word appeared on my mind after dinner last night. I don't know why. But I googled and found him and sent him an email about one of the Cafe racers. Bruce Dyer is still in business! And he was really great at bouncing email back and forth with me. I asked for size 42 which he doesn't have. And he is checking on the 44 size, by fitting it on a guy he knows that's same as my height and weight. Great guy! MADE IN USA $349. I am still shocked. Fingers crossed about sizing and current leather weight. Website pics are ho hum but if the jacket is anything close to the pics posted here it would be more than just fine.

 

[red devil]

What a find!

 

[ABCD]

May I chime in with this awesome WD (property of @Monitor )

 

[BlueSteel]

So sad to hear this and there are so many victims to this hype while in reality the best Shinki is at a level of mid-range Italian tanned leather from whatever tannery. But that's what you get from reading all that **** on Instagram and elsewhere.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man.

I am not terribly invested in this debate - I have one Shinki Himel Heron, which is a spectacular jacket and the leather is amazing. But I have many other non-Shinki jackets that I love too.

But clearly there is no "objective" accepted "reality" about these leather quality comparisons.

I mean...I know you have some beefs with certain jacket makers, but are you really saying that Himel, GW, and Greg Field are all part of a conspiracy to import Shinki leather and pawn it off on their misguided customers, knowing that it is inferior to mid-level Italian leather? Take Greg for example. He worked for years at Aero using non-Shinki leather. He starts his own bespoke brand and decides to go with Shinki. So are you saying he did that despite it being obvious that the material is inferior?

I'm not with you on this. Sorry.

 

[Mrfrown]

Sorry for the late reply! I was away from the forums since summer because it was so hot here I couldn’t even think of a jacket, let alone wear one.

Yes, I got mine back in May and I absolutely love it. Amazing leather, fit, craftsmanship, and materials. I highly recommend this jacket if you like the style. This is a Medium. I wear a 42R in most everything.

View attachment 371357 View attachment 371358

Very nice! And a great fit for buying off the sale page.

 

[marker2037]

Very nice! And a great fit for buying off the sale page.

It honestly couldn't fit any better. It was exactly what I was looking for in that style of jacket with a bit more room than my more fitted crosszips.

 

[Mrfrown]

It honestly couldn't fit any better. It was exactly what I was looking for in that style of jacket with a bit more room than my more fitted crosszips.

Yeah too trim on a field jacket seems like it would look odd proportionally, especially with all those pockets.

Great style man!

 

[marker2037]

This is my design for my next Field Leathers halfbelt

View attachment 369723

I see you're stealing my lining

j/k, this looks to be an amazing mockup. Which leather are you going with? After receiving the samples from Greg with my jacket I have to have something in the pony brown. It's fantastic. Then again, I am also contemplating a two-tone using the natural tochigi (if he still gets that) and possibly a navy blue.

 

[navetsea]

Aren’t people generally talking about the front end, ie tanning process, when they refer to the greener aspects of vegtan leather? That’s the impression I’ve gotten anyway, with the assumption that when the usable life of the piece is over, there will also be a relative decrease in pollution because of the materials (fewer nasty chemicals) that went into its production in the first place.

Yes, i understand but if a hide is treated with such nasty chemical nature couldnt deteriorate then i assume the leather end product would also last forever, when compared to a hide treated with natural green preservative, sure it would still be somewhat preserved, but i bet not as long.

 

[ojaw]

Yes, i understand but if a hide is treated with such nasty chemical nature couldnt deteriorate then i assume the leather end product would also last forever, when compared to a hide treated with natural green preservative, sure it would still be somewhat preserved, but i bet not as long.

Gotcha, that sounds plausible.

 

[ton312]

Take Greg for example. He worked for years at Aero using non-Shinki leather. He starts his own bespoke brand and decides to go with Shinki. So are you saying he did that despite it being obvious that the material is inferior?

I *suspect (just speculation) Greg chose shinki based on the patterns of his jackets, which are quite trim. I also think this applies to most contemporary modern makers who are reinventing vintage patterns and applying modern “slim fit aesthetics” to the design. Greg actually made me my heaviest and arguably finest Aero (minus the small collar) it’s a 50’s pattern, not a slim cut jacket, long gone from my closet:

Personally, I have a hard time distinguishing between some of these mid/lightweight leathers. I cannot tell the difference between my ELMC and any number of Aero Vicenza jackets I’ve owned. They are generically labeled “Italian Horsehide”. They are for all intents and purposes, exactly the same. Not to speak for Ivan but I think I see his point. I don’t know where one ranks Vicenza or whatever HH ELMC is using on the Italian leather grade scale, but I also don’t find the few examples I’ve handled to be significantly different from Shinki. Particularly in the case of a FW Mulholland I saw posted, which didn’t look entirely dissimilar to a skived down version of my latest Vanson comp weight jacket, (don’t throw rocks at me!), with that Vanson hide being almost universally hated, except by myself and a few others.

So ultimately, I suppose it’s whatever floats your boat, but the hype engine fires on all cylinders, and I think that’s what he was trying to convey.

 

[BlueSteel]

So ultimately, I suppose it’s whatever floats your boat, but the hype engine fires on all cylinders

Hi Tony!

If this was the original post I would have agreed with - and even "liked" - that post from the beginning...LOL!

 

[ton312]

Hi Tony!

If this was the original post I would have agreed with - and even "liked" - that post from the beginning...LOL!

I won’t place any judgement on makers or buyers. I’ve had such a strange, convoluted and honestly pathetic course through this hobby…I’m in no position. But I don’t think that was Ivan’s intent either! Wasn’t too long ago that CXL was Shinki and Aero was Freewheelers.

 

[ABCD]

Which leather are you going with? After receiving the samples from Greg with my jacket I have to have something in the pony brown. It's fantastic.

I'm going with brown pony. As you say, it's fantastic. His newest batch has some nice grain too.

 

[Superfluous]

there are so many victims to this hype while in reality the best Shinki is at a level of mid-range Italian tanned leather from whatever tannery

I respect you immensely, but . . . inflammatory statements like this are counterproductive, entirely subjective, and a product of your well-documented anti-Shinki dogma/bias.

To be clear, I do not believe Shinki is superior to any other HH, Italian or otherwise. Rather, I personally prefer the weight, pliability, and drape of Shinki, which admittedly varies, because it is particularly suitable to my warm climate and slender build. My preference for Shinki is not a product of marketing hype, but rather, dissatisfaction with heavy, stiff Horween leathers. I tried on a Shinki jacket at Inspiration and was immediately engaged. I had no idea what Shinki was. I only knew that I liked the weight, pliability, and drape of the jacket, and I hated the weight and stiffness of the Horween leathers that I was encountering.

Respectfully, the broad assertion that those who prefer Shinki have been manipulated and defrauded by marketing hype is disrespectful and insulting to those who favor Shinki HH. Why do you have an insatiable desire to belittle and demean all things Shinki? Again, your agenda is well-documented and any denial is futile.

Moreover, the notion that Shinki -- a tiny, esoteric Japanese tannery known to almost no-one outside of Japan, and few within Japan -- has created mass marketing hype defies rational justification. I have NEVER seen any marketing materials or advertising from the Shinki tannery. Moreover, the Japanese manufacturers that use Shinki -- e.g., RMC, FW, FCL, RC -- are generally very low key about their use of Shinki. Some mention Shinki -- others do not -- but none have a marketing campaign focused on Shinki, and none boast that Shinki is superior to all other HHs. Likewise, the US manufacturers that use Shinki -- GW and FL -- are equally low key about their use of Shinki and do not market Shinki as superior to others. Frankly, Himel is the only manufacturer I am aware of that aggressively markets his use of Shinki and exalts Shinki over other HHs. So where is this purported mass marketing hype originating from that is supposedly manipulating so many uninformed, gullible buyers? I certainly am not aware of it.

There is a reason why many knowledgeable, informed, and well-respected manufacturers use Shinki HH and it is not because the leather is supported by a vast marketing machine. Rather, these knowledgeable, informed, and well-respected manufacturers use Shinki HH because it has certain desirable qualities. This is not a pyramid scheme. The manufacturers that use Shinki are not seeking to dupe their customers. Rather, they genuinely believe in the merit of Shinki leather. Are they all idiots? I think not. In fact, I would venture to opine that most of these passionate manufacturers, who spend the majority of their days emersed in their craft, are more informed about these matters than you.

Isn't it equally possible -- even probable -- that most manufacturers that offer Shinki HH and most people who purchase Shinki jackets made informed decisions, as opposed to being manipulated by mass marketing and undeserved hype, and they genuinely like the leather more than other leathers? Why is this paradigm so offensive to you? Why not give those who prefer Shinki HH a modicum of respect for their choice, as opposed to labeling them a product of undeserved hype and/or a consumer of inferior leather? Why are you so intent on proving your subjective thesis that Shinki is mediocre at best? Why not accept the prevailing theory permeating TFL that comparisons among leathers are predominately a subjective exercise and there is no objective hierarchy?

Again, my respect for you is boundless. You are far, far more knowledgeable than me concerning these matters. That said, IMHO, your ingrained bias has gotten the best of you.

 

[ABCD]

I've handled Shinki leathers which I loved and I've handled Shinki leathers which were underwhelming to me: some felt thin, some looked flat because of a thick topcoat. To me personally Shinki leather is not worth the premium price it goes for. But every Shinki hide I've handled was a quality hide. Definitely not mid range in any way.

I strongly disagree with people who say "Shinki is the best" but I also have to disagree when people say they're mid range as compared to hides from Italian tanneries.

 

[marker2037]

I respect you immensely, but . . . inflammatory statements like this are counterproductive, entirely subjective, and a product of your well-documented anti-Shinki dogma/bias.

To be clear, I do not believe Shinki is superior to any other HH, Italian or otherwise. Rather, I personally prefer the weight, pliability, and drape of Shinki, which admittedly varies, because it is particularly suitable to my warm climate and slender build. My preference for Shinki is not a product of marketing hype, but rather, dissatisfaction with heavy, stiff Horween leathers. I tried on a Shinki jacket at Inspiration and was immediately engaged. I had no idea what Shinki was. I only knew that I liked the weight, pliability, and drape of the jacket, and I hated the weight and stiffness of the Horween leathers that I was encountering.

Respectfully, the broad assertion that those who prefer Shinki have been manipulated and defrauded by marketing hype is disrespectful and insulting to those who favor Shinki HH. Why do you have an insatiable desire to belittle and demean all things Shinki? Again, your agenda is well-documented and any denial is futile.

Moreover, the notion that Shinki -- a tiny, esoteric Japanese tannery known to almost no-one outside of Japan, and few within Japan -- has created mass marketing hype defies rational justification. I have NEVER seen any marketing materials or advertising from the Shinki tannery. Moreover, the Japanese manufacturers that use Shinki -- e.g., RMC, FW, FCL, RC -- are generally very low key about their use of Shinki. Some mention Shinki -- others do not -- but none have a marketing campaign focused on Shinki, and none boast that Shinki is superior to all other HHs. Likewise, the US manufacturers that use Shinki -- GW and FL -- are equally low key about their use of Shinki and do not market Shinki as superior to others. Frankly, Himel is the only manufacturer I am aware of that aggressively markets his use of Shinki and exalts Shinki over other HHs. So where is this purported mass marketing hype originating from that is supposedly manipulating so many uninformed, gullible buyers? I certainly am not aware of it.

There is a reason why many knowledgeable, informed, and well-respected manufacturers use Shinki HH and it is not because the leather is supported by a vast marketing machine. Rather, these knowledgeable, informed, and well-respected manufacturers use Shinki HH because it has certain desirable qualities. This is not a pyramid scheme. The manufacturers that use Shinki are not seeking to dupe their customers. Rather, they genuinely believe in the merit of Shinki leather. Are they all idiots? I think not. In fact, I would venture to opine that most of these passionate manufacturers, who spend the majority of their days emersed in their craft, are more informed about these matters than you.

Isn't it equally possible -- even probable -- that most manufacturers that offer Shinki HH and most people who purchase Shinki jackets made informed decisions, as opposed to being manipulated by mass marketing and undeserved hype, and they genuinely like the leather more than other leathers? Why is this paradigm so offensive to you? Why not give those who prefer Shinki HH a modicum of respect for their choice, as opposed to labeling them a product of undeserved hype and/or a consumer of inferior leather? Why are you so intent on proving your subjective thesis that Shinki is mediocre at best? Why not accept the prevailing theory permeating TFL that comparisons among leathers are predominately a subjective exercise and there is no objective hierarchy?

Again, my respect for you is boundless. You are far, far more knowledgeable than me concerning these matters. That said, IMHO, your ingrained bias has gotten the best of you.

I think you took his generic post a little too personal. It’s just leather man.

 

[Mich486]

My 2 cents… there is definitely some hype around Japanese made heritage clothes (not just leather but think denim and boots) but imho this is the results of consistently delivering a product that can’t be found anywhere else… is all coming out of Japan better or even good? Nope… Much of the best stuff and designs are though coming from there. I keep looking around with a very open mind and for one reason or the other I just find myself with a wardrobe full of Japanese made clothes. They just get it…

 

[red devil]

Once you reach a certain level of leather than it is more a matter of preference on what you choose. That being said, I do find shinki to be over-hyped in general. I say that while being naturally biased towards Japoanese made goods.
Not all leathers coming out from Shinki is top end, their output is very inconsistent, that has been explained to me by numerous artisans Japanese or not. Some of these Japanese artisans went as far as to tell me they prefer to work with other smaller tanneries that generally have a better product.
Shinki is just a brand name, and nothing more.

In my experience, all branded leathers are overhyped at the moment. CXL was seen as the top of the mountain years ago as @ton312 rightfully mentioned, now shinki is the star of the show, and badalassi is coming up.

In my experience? Nothing beats the moose I ordered from Finland, everything else is inferior leather overly hyped by lifeless marketing blurb made by dishonest people with an agenda

More seriously though, forget about brand names and just focus onwhat characteristics you like about your leathers, I personally go for variety.

 

[ABCD]

I think you took his generic post a little too personal. It’s just leather man.

I always love reading @Superfluous well substantiated views. It's like we're taking part in a public hearing of the 'leather jacket court of law' and a piece of leather of Japanese descent is the accused lol.