Homburg Nation

[Purplesage]

Alan nice hats. The brim edging on the Cromwell does remind me of a the gray Stetson above. So would the Cromwell be considered a true Homburg? Still search for something on Cromwell Hats. I did find a few things on the Hastings mens store in San Francisco but no reference to Cromwell Hats.

 

[Brad Bowers]

I did some digging on Cromwell yesterday and found very little. It was never registered with the US as a trademark, and I only found a couple of newspaper ads that refer to Cromwell Hats, both from the 1940s and both for women's hats, so they weren't much help.

Brad

 

[TheDane]

Ole, Interesting regarding the turban-roll (I am not aware of the term). Would be interested in seeing other examples.

I have an old catalog from "National Hatters Supply Co." with example drawings, but the PDF is on a laptop where Windows broke down lately. I haven't had time to get the disk out and docked up, so I can't get to the files right now. The one carouselvic showed after your post was flanged with turban roll.

A quick but reasonable accurate diagram of one of my flanges from Lundstrom looks like this:



I made the brim appr. 2 1/2" on both drawings. You can vary the style pretty much by cutting the brim narrower - or by cutting it directional in either direction - and use the same flange-width

 

[TheDane]

So would the Cromwell be considered a true Homburg?

It's a really beautiful hat. The style resembles a Homburg on several points, but I wouldn't consider it "a true Homburg". The Homburg is differently flanged with a lot more curved sides and more curled edge - especially in the sides. The curl is often "sharpened" to a d'Orsay curl

 

[Monte]

Been following the conversation and it's crazy how knowledgeable you guys are. Any thoughts on my Williams & Co. hat as far as age? I finally have a bit larger pics to offer.

 

[Monte]

More inside.

 

[Monte]

more

 

[mayserwegener]

Super! It's an old one (my guess would be 20s early 30s) and definitely what I considered to be a Homburg. Have you searched the the English maker (Williams & Co.)?

Vic, Thanks for the Borsalino example. I found others in the "Il Cappello Da Uomo".

Ole, Thanks! Here is an old (pre WWI) German wool hat of mine with a similar flange (although it could have lost its shape).

C.W.N.

 

[Purplesage]

Thanks for checking Brad. The search goes on for Cromwell Hats. I do know that Hastings, the store it was sold at, was a pretty well know mens store in San Francisco.

 

[Purplesage]

This is a Scott by La Salle which I posted a while back that is similar except the trim on the brim is wider. The trim is wider but the brim is about the same. The brim on this one is also soft and not stiff. Again, I suppose this is not a true Homburg is the strictest sense of the word.

 

[John Galt]

I have an old catalog from "National Hatters Supply Co." with example drawings, but the PDF is on a laptop where Windows broke down lately. I haven't had time to get the disk out and docked up, so I can't get to the files right now. The one carouselvic showed after your post was flanged with turban roll.

A quick but reasonable accurate diagram of one of my flanges from Lundstrom looks like this:

View attachment 5789

I made the brim appr. 2 1/2" on both drawings. You can vary the style pretty much by cutting the brim narrower - or by cutting it directional in either direction - and use the same flange-width

Ole, I have a great Lundstrom hat and have done some research on the SF company that I've never posted here. Can you post your flange in the hatter's tools thread?


"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[Monte]

Super! It's an old one (my guess would be 20s early 30s) and definitely what I considered to be a Homburg. Have you searched the the English maker (Williams & Co.)?
That's great, Steve. It does seem very old and well constructed. The stitches in the sweat are so small and close together.
Thank you very much for your reply. I know you have a prolific collection of vintage Homburgs.
I have seen no info on Williams & Co. yet.

 

[mayserwegener]

This is a Scott by La Salle which I posted a while back that is similar except the trim on the brim is wider. The trim is wider but the brim is about the same. The brim on this one is also soft and not stiff. Again, I suppose this is not a true Homburg is the strictest sense of the word.

Beautiful! I wouldn't consider it a Homburg but my view might be a bit restrictive (mine based on 1920s to 50s conventions).

Side note: As far as I know the term Homburg wasn't used by German or Austrian hat makers prior to WWII. It's an Anglo - American term. This is a late 19th Century one (probably Austrian) I saw at the Novy Jicin museum. At that time they had tall tapered crowns.

 

[mayserwegener]

Super! It's an old one (my guess would be 20s early 30s) and definitely what I considered to be a Homburg. Have you searched the the English maker (Williams & Co.)?
That's great, Steve. It does seem very old and well constructed. The stitches in the sweat are so small and close together.
Thank you very much for your reply. I know you have a prolific collection of vintage Homburgs.
I have seen no info on Williams & Co. yet.

Where did you find it? I don't have a background in collecting old English hats (just a few Bowlers) but I am pretty sure it's on the other side of WWII. The English makers kept their standards high on such styles so it makes dating difficult.

 

[TheDane]

monte: Sweet old full-blood "burger". Note the coat of arms, btw. I wonder how many hatters have been member of "The Most Noble Order of the Garter"? Mr. Williams was probably the very only - but Richard (ManofKent) can maybe elaborate on this(?)

Steve: You're welcome. Yes, that seems to be flanged with a turban-roll flange.

Purplesage: No, I wouldn't call that one a "true Homburg" either. Not a lesser hat in any way, though. Just another style

John: Sure! Next week I'll get my new Nokia with 41 MPix and Carl Zeiss optics. It's not a pro fullframe camera, but it's a lot better than the POS I've got right now. In a picture most flanges look like Grannie's old wooden toilet seat, so I would like to know if there are specific details you would like to see

 

[ManofKent]

monte: Sweet old full-blood "burger". Note the coat of arms, btw. I wonder how many hatters have been member of "The Most Noble Order of the Garter"? Mr. Williams was probably the very only - but Richard (ManofKent) can maybe elaborate on this(?)

Is suspect the garter shows that Williams & Co had a Royal Warrant (not that unusual for hat maufacturers - if you've been supplying the Royal household (not just the Royal Family) for over 5 yrs there was a good chance of obtaining it). The only reference I can find to the company (assuming it is the same one) is in a London trade directory of 1825.

 

[TheDane]

Is suspect the garter shows that Williams & Co had a Royal Warrant

Arhhhh ... like "By Appointment to ...". That sounds very reasonable - though I liked the other interpretation a little better

 

[Purplesage]

Dunn & Co.

I have this for sale in the classifieds. Getting ready to put on EBay since there wasn't much interest here. How about age dating this one.

 

[mayserwegener]

I would guess around WWII. Baron K. or someone else might be able to give you a better idea. I seem to recall some issues about the Dunn & Co. address.

 

[ManofKent]

PurpleSage - possibly 30's, but I'm no expert - The large GA was pretty much dropped by the 50's.