Bfd70
I'll Lock Up
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Bill kelso
Stitching/attention to detail is IMO the real show of quality.
Never heard/seen of BKS. A quick google search seems to show they make motorcycle gear?
I should rephrase my observation like this: I think Himel has the best patterns amongst the leather jacket makers usually discussed here. Just my humble opinion of course and entirely based on fit pics.
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I agree that certain patterns are more suitable to certain body types than others but if one pattern look consistently off on differently shaped people than I think the pattern could do with some tweaks.
From what I can see, Himel has got the best patterns. If properly sized, I’ve yet to see one example of a bad fitting Himel jacket.
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There are certainly some bad patterns that should not exist anymore, but saying that Himel has the best patterns is a step too far.
Although Himel customers seem to be getting good fitting jackets overall, calling him the best is completely ignoring other makers who provide fantastic fitting jackets.
I will mention as an example BKS made to measure, their work in improving the patterns for riding as well as the bespoke process which is extremely detailed goes beyond anything I have seen so far.
Are they the best? I wouldn't even attempt to say it
Edited for clarity
Never heard/seen of BKS. A quick google search seems to show they make motorcycle gear?
I should rephrase my observation like this: I think Himel has the best patterns amongst the leather jacket makers usually discussed here. Just my humble opinion of course and entirely based on fit pics.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Maybe i see this in an unusual way, but to me leather is now pretty meaningless in the quality equation.
Most of the jackets we talk about are made with what i would describe as quality leather.
Is CXL better than LW, worst than Vicenza, equal to Shinki? It's all a subjective call based on personal preference.
The fact that we all have different bodies makes patterns just as hard to be objective about.
Stitching/attention to detail is IMO the real show of quality.
I don't mean to sound like a dick, but all it took was for me to look at the pictures of Natal jackets on this thread to see that they are not on the same level as LW (full disclosure i have never handled a Natal):
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/natal-leather.84202/
Looking at post #4
The main zipper is completely wavy on the left lapel, both sides have different stitch count. The pockets are not symetrical and their angles aren't square, they also are IMO pretty messy (pic 8 shows a missed stitch and an extra solo stich where it shouldn't be there).
I can also see a few inconsistencies in the stitch spacing, where the stitch count becomes tighter and tighter before jumping a big fold and becoming looser again (last picture, the seam going from the pit to the gusset).
Or the opposite, if you look at picture 8 and 10, you can see that on either side of the bottom hem, at the junction between front and side panels there are a couple stitches that are almost 1/2" long!
The same thing can be seen on the back, picture 4, junction between kidney panel and side panel on the right side.
To me these Natal jackets are on the level of attention to detail i have seen on Schott jackets, it does the job, i am sure they are sturdy enough to be completely functional on and off the bike, but i don't see much precision in the details or the execution, and i would never see them as being on the same level of "quality" as LW or Freewheelers or RMC.
If i can spot this in pictures, i am sure i would find at least 5 "mistakes" if i held it in my hands.
My LW, FW and RMC have 0.
Now, i am not saying that this is not me being crazy, i fully admit that the difference might not be worth it to a lot of people, but it is worth it to me.
Picture of the mistakes i wouldn't tolerate:
(I also don't think the pockets are well shaped, and the fact that the stitch count is completely different on both sides of the main zipper is pretty poor)
All true - And yet, a $150 jacket, one made in thicker leather, leaves nothing to be desired functionality-wise, worn either as a bike jacket or worn casually, every part of it performing perfectly
Quality has never equated to desirability
I understand. Somehow, along the way, I left that stuff behind as it never translated to meaning anything at all to me. For all intents and purposes it should have. I certainly spent enough in pursuit. But it did not.Like everything else, the relative importance of quality, and its affect on desirability, is entirely subjective.
For me, personally, quality is a critically important and essential component of desirability. There are many good fitting, functional jackets that I will not purchase because the workmanship and details do not meet my personal, subjective preferences.
Agreed Seb. Also a lot of false praise based solely on the label, while ignoring the standard lesser brands are held to. Not the case in this thread but I’ve seen it many times over across the board. I’m guilty of it (and been the recipient) myself. Imho that is the true “TFL effect”.Some brands have a mystique which also makes them more exclusive or coveted.
I think the consensus is Toyota Corolla is way more reliable than a Ferrari. So as far as functionality goes, Toyota even exceeds the Ferrari unless you are a street racer."Functionality" is as subjective as any other measure of quality. If you ride a bike, your "functionality" requirements are vastly different than if you do not ride a bike. Moreover, even bike riders emphasize different attributes and have different preferences.
The overwhelming majority of the jackets we discuss here will outlive the owners, so durability is largely a wash.
A Toyota Corolla will transport the owner to and from work as effectively as any other car and "leaves nothing to be desired functionality-wise." That said, I would greatly prefer a Ferrari, even though it is no more functional for pure transportation purposes. Moreover, I suspect that most would agree that a Ferrari is a better quality product, even though no more functional than a Toyota Corolla. Therefore, IMHO, there is far, far more to quality than mere functionality. Of course, if a particular product is not functional, it matters not how well it is made. That said, among functional products, workmanship and manufacturing details are key indicators of quality.
You certainly do. I’d be curious if any other members have heard about the goodwhereabouts of their jackets? Seems if Boyo’s ship has come in other members who have been waiting 3 or 4 years might only have a couple more to go.
You might well be approaching the finish line though. I’m not saying that facetiously. I hope for those stuck in the queue the jackets do start to materialize. My gaskets would’ve long blown. In spectacular fashion.My deposit was paid in January 2015...still waiting and no, I haven't heard anything from Jon since Sept 2017 when he said he was going to call me lol
I haven't heard anything from Jon since Sept 2017 when he said he was going to call me lol