Not the PC answer, but I agree.
Now you see, around here I always thought that the PC answer (a curious term) was Goodwear is better than pretty quality much anything except perhaps Langlitz or Himmel.
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Not the PC answer, but I agree.
In what way are Good Wear jackets objectively better than Aero?
I had a different experience. The seems nor the stitching was any better ( I would say they were worse!) and the hide was disappointingly flimsy. I immediately asked to return the jacket. The seller (a member here) was gracious enough to accept. I believe it has been sold along to another member who is very happy with it. Perhaps there is something I’m missing? I received a bad egg? I don’t know but I can’t recall a time I was more underwhelmed, given the hype machine behind the brand.GW stitching and seams are palpably better. That said, Aero jackets are also fantastic and the differences in construction do not affect the durability of the jackets.
I had a different experience. The seems nor the stitching was any better ( I would say they were worse!) and the hide was disappointingly flimsy. I immediately asked to return the jacket. The seller (a member here) was gracious enough to accept. I believe it has been sold along to another member who is very happy with it. Perhaps there is something I’m missing? I received a bad egg? I don’t know but I can’t recall a time I was more underwhelmed, given the hype machine behind the brand.
^ Same with the LW hype. You know something if off when a $100 Natal is a heavier jacket than a $1500 LW.
No it was a Ventura? I believe. I’m not terribly familiar with his models beyond the Arcaidia, which is his his best imho.Was it a GW Hercules? Or another model by john
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I understand. I’ve never bought a repro to emulate an original, rather to exceed it. In some ways they do, in other ways they do not.It really depends on what you like. To me the LW Buco J-23 doesn't look right. It is too thick. Doesn't really look or feel like an original Buco J-23 and it will not age like an original. At the very least it is not brown core. I am not expert in leather but I have a feeling that a thick veg tanned leather jacket may not be wearable given that veg tanned leather is more rigid than chrome tanned. I have seen examples like Geruga, old Toyo enterprise and even old RM jackets made of the wrong thick veg tanned leather. The leather along the folded seam tends to crack easily because of the rigidness and thickness.
A Horween CXL half belt may have the same pattern as the original but the original was't made of a thick oil leather. A Schott horween CXL 628 after 60 years of wear will probably still not look like a 50s Beck 333 does now even if you let it just dry up without any conditioning.
A "flimsy" A-2 made by Goowear or Eastman will have a closer resemblance to the original ones than a 80s Cooper Goatskin A-2 not only because of the pattern but the leather used.
For the reason above, I have never bought a Horween CXL repro jacket because the crease, drape and colour (dye) are all gonna be quite different to an original given the characteristics of the tanning process.
That is the dilemma. Many of the materials today far exceed those used on vintage originals. Alpaca and wool lining is pretty much obsolete. The modern synthetic materials are warmer, lighter and less itchy. A new Alpha civilian MA-1 has far thinner synthetic lining than the original military spec wool pile MA-1 and yet it is at least as warm as the original. Yet some people finds the new one too flimsy and does not believe it can keep them warm.I understand. I’ve never bought a repro to emulate an original, rather to exceed it. In some ways they do, in other ways they do not.
That is the dilemma. Many of the materials today far exceed those used on vintage originals. Alpaca and wool lining is pretty much obsolete. The modern synthetic materials are warmer, lighter and less itchy. A new Alpha civilian MA-1 has far thinner synthetic lining than the original military spec wool pile MA-1 and yet it is at least as warm as the original. Yet some people finds the new one too flimsy and does not believe it can keep them warm.
^ Same with the LW hype. You know something if off when a $100 Natal is a heavier jacket than a $1500 LW.
Weight ≠ Quality
Rather, weight = weight.
I am not suggesting that Natal is not also high quality -- I have never handled a Natal jacket and, therefore, I have no knowledge regarding its relative attributes. However, the mere fact that the jacket is unusually heavy is not what makes it a quality product. A jacket needs more than weight to qualify as high quality.
Please explain why Natal jackets are quality products, other than being unusually heavy? What are the other positive attributes of the jacket?
Weight ≠ Quality
Rather, weight = weight.
I am not suggesting that Natal is not also high quality -- I have never handled a Natal jacket and, therefore, I have no knowledge regarding its relative attributes. However, the mere fact that the jacket is unusually heavy is not what makes it a quality product.
Please explain why Natal jackets are quality products, other than being unusually heavy? What are the other positive attributes of the jacket?
Weight = Quality if weight is your main selling point, like it is the case with the Lost Worlds. So if you have another maker building even heavier jackets than you, what are you left with? In LW's case, better stitching and a more refined finish, they've got Natal beat there but does aesthetics > quality, which I will translate to durability & functionality, on a motorcycle jacket?
Not for me. Is stitch count more important than making a functional shoulder gussets or having the sleeves close up tightly around your wrists? Absolutely not.
I'd rather be hard pressed to find any negative attributes. The jackets are heavier, they're cut better, good enough room in the shoulders and chest while tight around the abdomen. Slim-ish sleeves that close up tight around the wrists. Warm, quilted liner, fully functional gussets... Not to mention the jacket looks the part, too, being classically styled and IMO much nicer looking than many LW styles. Weird thin belt on the Speed Demon and the coin pocket placed up too high. Or those zippers on the Cafe Racer, with the zipper teeth half exposed as on the worst of the worst of Pakistani cross zips...
One little thing I first check on any riding jacket is whether or not the pocket zippers close downwards. On any Natal / WD jacket they do, no exception (that I have seen) while LW still can't seem to figure that one out.
Like I said, it's a good product but I don't see the hype. It's well made, something I got over within a day. I am wearing it daily for the fact that it is a very functional, warm and tough jacket. Which is why I love my Natal Leathers so... I don't see why is one a thousands of dollars better than the other. I just don't.
Wise men say only fools rush in...
You certainly do. I’d be curious if any other members have heard about the goodwhereabouts of their jackets? Seems if Boyo’s ship has come in other members who have been waiting 3 or 4 years might only have a couple more to go.
Now you see, around here I always thought that the PC answer (a curious term) was Goodwear is better than pretty quality much anything except perhaps Langlitz or Himmel.
I agree that certain patterns are more suitable to certain body types than others but if one pattern look consistently off on differently shaped people than I think the pattern could do with some tweaks.
From what I can see, Himel has got the best patterns. If properly sized, I’ve yet to see one example of a bad fitting Himel jacket.
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