Edward
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Two for the show?
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Footwear to go with our jackets
- Thread starter red devil
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Superfluous
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Edward,
The Outerwear Section of TFL is the premier Outerwear forum on the internet, bar none. It is a tremendous community and an invaluable resource for outerwear enthusiasts worldwide.
The majority of the currently active Outerwear participants did not discover the Outerwear Section because of a general interest in the "Golden Era" or through the broader TFL forums rooted in the Golden Era. Rather, most of us came to the Outerwear Section solely and exclusively because of our interest in Outerwear. We were scouring the internet for information regarding jackets and we found the Outerwear Section. Outerwear is our commonality.
There are MANY active participants in the Outerwear Section of TFL -- me included -- who do not read any other parts of TFL (with the singular exception of the Classifieds). The other sections of TFL simply do not interest us. Therefore, we limit our participation to the Outerwear Section (and Classifieds).
When you merge Outerwear threads into pre-existing threads located elsewhere within TFL, the result is that the Outerwear members that originally started the Outerwear thread, and who do not read the other portions of TFL, cease to participate in the merged thread. We are functionally deprived of the original Outerwear thread because it is now buried within another section of TFL dominated by discussions that do not interest us.
This weekend, I started a new thread titled "JACKETS and pets." Apparently, there is already a thread elsewhere on TFL for pets -- NOT JACKETS and pets -- rather, just pets. Nevertheless, the Moderators merged the Outerwear JACKETS and pets thread with the pre-existing thread elsewhere on TFL. Now, the Outerwear JACKETS and pets thread has lost its connection to JACKETS and is part of a generic pets thread. Moreover, the merged thread is buried within a section of TFL dominated by discussions that do not interest me or many other Outerwear participants, and I strongly suspect that many Outerwear participants (me included) will never participate again. The Outerwear section has been deprived of a thread expressly related to JACKETS because it overlapped with a non-jacket thread elsewhere on TFL. That is very disappointing. I sent you a PM requesting that you reconsider the issue.
This is not the first time this has happened. Years ago, I started a thread in the Outerwear Section titled "What Jacket Are You Wearing Today" ("WJAYWT"). Shortly thereafter, a moderator deemed the Outerwear thread duplicative of a pre-existing thread elsewhere on TFL titled "What Are You Wearing Today" ("WAYWT") and merged the new Outerwear thread with the pre-existing thread, even though the Outerwear thread was expressly focused on JACKETS. A year later, someone else started the IDENTICAL WJAYWT thread in the Outerwear section. However, this time around, the Moderators allowed the thread to remain and did not merge it with the pre-existing WAYWT thread. I applaud the decision, but the disparate treatment of the two identical threads was never explained to me.
Now, you are contemplating merging the Footwear thread in the Outerwear section with one of the pre-existing footwear threads elsewhere on TFL (e.g., https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/show-us-your-shoes.4300/ and https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/engineer-boots-harness-boots.43530/ ). I respectfully request that you refrain from merging the threads. If you do merge, the connection to Outerwear will be lost and many Outerwear participants -- me included -- will cease to participate. I/we will not hunt and peck for the merged thread buried within a section of TFL dominated by discussions that do not interest me/us.
There are many other Outerwear threads that are potentially subject to similar merger with arguably duplicative threads elsewhere on TFL. The overlap is inevitable.
I understand the Moderators' desire to promote cross-participation. However, the fact remains that the Outerwear Section is populated primarily by people interested in Outerwear, as opposed to the Golden Era in general. When you deprive the Outerwear section of threads which partially overlap with other sections of TFL, you diminish the quality of the premier Outerwear forum on the interest. I urge the Moderators to allow the Outerwear Section to continue to thrive on its own, without stripping away threads through merger. Those who also want to read the other sections of TFL will do so. There will always be some cross-participation. However, moving Outerwear threads to other sections of TFL will not effectively promote cross-participation and, instead, will simply diminish the Outerwear Section.
Thank you for your consideration.
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Marc mndt
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Hear, Hear
Edward
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Superfluous,
I didindeed receive your pm, but it's been an extremely busy afternoon at the "day job", so I trust you'll forgive me if I let this stand as my answer to the PM as well, seeing you've effectively repeated the gist of it here.
The management are well aware there is a large contingent of folks who choose to limit themsleves to this one enclave of the website - as, of course, they are perfectly entitled to do so. Nonetheless, there are also many others who also choose to avail themselves of the other sections also. The site has been designed with a lot of thought put into the separate areas, and the management does reserve the right to move threads between areas if that is consdiered to best maintain the design of the site; it was never intended nor desired to create specific, walled off areas that parallel content across all of them. Many of us who moderate on this website have long experieneo fo ther foums where this was not adhered to, and the resulting mess they became. If folks want to limit themselves to only part of the content available on TFL then by all means that is their free choice. Nonetheless, that is indeed their choice, and if that means that they miss material more approrpriately classified elsewhere, as at present there are no plans for TFL to be rejigged entirely to suit that.
Incidently, if folks do find it too much to look at more than one room to find threads of interest, another option is to sroll up to the very top right hand corner of the page, where there's a button marked "New posts" - it's a complete digest only a few pages long that lets you see all new posts made anywhere on the site in chronological order.
Noone has been deprived of anything - all areas of the website are accessible to all members to peruse as they wish - or not. If folks aren't interested enough to go to another room to look at the thread, then it's difficult to imagine that they really feel like they're losing out.
Threads are merged and/or moved on a discretionary and case by case basis, with consieration given to where they best belong. Those decisions are made by a team of individuals who may make the occasional slip in consistency - let's not forget that those who moderate this website do it wholly voluntarily. We receive no payment of any form - not even a discount on a cheap coffee at the corner stand - and are usually fitting this in around our 'day jobs', lives, significant others, walking the dog... Ultimately, none of us are doing this for anytihng other than the love of the site and the resource we believe it to be, but we would simply request that the membership occasionally bear that in mind.
This has been considerred several times, but to date no decision to actively move them. Again, I would simply say that if members weish to stay only within one room, that is abaolutely their choice, but any limitation of content they then find as a result is wholly self-imposed.
Decisions are never made on a whim, and of course we do consider overlaps. Nonetheless, the team runing the website will of necessity always take informed decisions on the basis of what best serves the site as a whole. Sit sectiond change and evolve over time and categories have changed here and there. Noone is planning to kill off outerwear or force anyone to go looking in others room if they really don't want to, but equally it must be understood that those who make such a choice are imposing the missing of content elsewhere on themselves. Sometimes you have to go to the bar rather than wait for table service.
Thank-you for the constructive feedback.
I didindeed receive your pm, but it's been an extremely busy afternoon at the "day job", so I trust you'll forgive me if I let this stand as my answer to the PM as well, seeing you've effectively repeated the gist of it here.
The management are well aware there is a large contingent of folks who choose to limit themsleves to this one enclave of the website - as, of course, they are perfectly entitled to do so. Nonetheless, there are also many others who also choose to avail themselves of the other sections also. The site has been designed with a lot of thought put into the separate areas, and the management does reserve the right to move threads between areas if that is consdiered to best maintain the design of the site; it was never intended nor desired to create specific, walled off areas that parallel content across all of them. Many of us who moderate on this website have long experieneo fo ther foums where this was not adhered to, and the resulting mess they became. If folks want to limit themselves to only part of the content available on TFL then by all means that is their free choice. Nonetheless, that is indeed their choice, and if that means that they miss material more approrpriately classified elsewhere, as at present there are no plans for TFL to be rejigged entirely to suit that.
Incidently, if folks do find it too much to look at more than one room to find threads of interest, another option is to sroll up to the very top right hand corner of the page, where there's a button marked "New posts" - it's a complete digest only a few pages long that lets you see all new posts made anywhere on the site in chronological order.
Noone has been deprived of anything - all areas of the website are accessible to all members to peruse as they wish - or not. If folks aren't interested enough to go to another room to look at the thread, then it's difficult to imagine that they really feel like they're losing out.
Threads are merged and/or moved on a discretionary and case by case basis, with consieration given to where they best belong. Those decisions are made by a team of individuals who may make the occasional slip in consistency - let's not forget that those who moderate this website do it wholly voluntarily. We receive no payment of any form - not even a discount on a cheap coffee at the corner stand - and are usually fitting this in around our 'day jobs', lives, significant others, walking the dog... Ultimately, none of us are doing this for anytihng other than the love of the site and the resource we believe it to be, but we would simply request that the membership occasionally bear that in mind.
This has been considerred several times, but to date no decision to actively move them. Again, I would simply say that if members weish to stay only within one room, that is abaolutely their choice, but any limitation of content they then find as a result is wholly self-imposed.
Decisions are never made on a whim, and of course we do consider overlaps. Nonetheless, the team runing the website will of necessity always take informed decisions on the basis of what best serves the site as a whole. Sit sectiond change and evolve over time and categories have changed here and there. Noone is planning to kill off outerwear or force anyone to go looking in others room if they really don't want to, but equally it must be understood that those who make such a choice are imposing the missing of content elsewhere on themselves. Sometimes you have to go to the bar rather than wait for table service.
Thank-you for the constructive feedback.
Superfluous
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Thank you for your thoughtful response @Edward . First and foremost, I am sincerely grateful to all the moderators and bartenders for their selfless efforts. Thank you!!!
Although contrary to my inherent and often uncontrollable desire to debate, I will refrain from further questioning the wisdom of the moderators regarding this important issue. I will defer to and respect your judgment, as I have throughout my tenure within this extraordinary community. The product of your collective efforts is unparalleled among internet forums, and a stark contrast to the chaos that pervades most forums. Words fail to convey the depth of my appreciation.
Thank you for granting me a seat at the bar.
Although contrary to my inherent and often uncontrollable desire to debate, I will refrain from further questioning the wisdom of the moderators regarding this important issue. I will defer to and respect your judgment, as I have throughout my tenure within this extraordinary community. The product of your collective efforts is unparalleled among internet forums, and a stark contrast to the chaos that pervades most forums. Words fail to convey the depth of my appreciation.
Thank you for granting me a seat at the bar.
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Mich486
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The belt thread that was started in the Outerwear section on Friday was a promising one. In a few hours it received several replies. It was moved over to General Attire on Friday evening and it’s been dormant ever since.
As @Superfluous says above, most people land here because of the leather jackets and I want to add that I feel like many participants in the outerwear section have a general interest in heritage clothing (raw denim, work boots, etc.). This party overlaps but doesn’t always fit in with the somewhat narrower golden era flavour of the General Attire and Accoutrements room. I believe that’s why people who are active here rarely cross over.
Just a thought but perhaps renaming the outerwear section to something broader would make threads like this on footwear seem less out of place while maintaining the audience?
As @Superfluous says above, most people land here because of the leather jackets and I want to add that I feel like many participants in the outerwear section have a general interest in heritage clothing (raw denim, work boots, etc.). This party overlaps but doesn’t always fit in with the somewhat narrower golden era flavour of the General Attire and Accoutrements room. I believe that’s why people who are active here rarely cross over.
Just a thought but perhaps renaming the outerwear section to something broader would make threads like this on footwear seem less out of place while maintaining the audience?
Marc mndt
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I was wondering where that thread had gone.
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This is an excellent point and something that needed to be addressed and was long overdue. Was just the other day trying to write something to this effect but couldn't coherently word what I wanted to say so just wanna add, yeah, signed and seconded.
I personally never venture outside of the Outerwear section myself (other than the Classifieds of course, but that's another thing altogether) and this isn't on principle or by choice as I actually would love to enjoy more of this great place but the fact of the matter is, 99% of clothes related stuff that interests me is happening right here, in the Outerwear and having little to no incentive to wonder elsewhere, I simply can't keep track of other threads in other sub-forums and that includes the ones I started myself. In short, I simply forget they exist.
Case in point is the fantastic Engineer boots thread that I really enjoyed while it was here but once it got moved, I forgot all about it. Out of entire General sub-forum, that'd be the only thread that would really interest me, since I couldn't care less about walking canes, scarves and fountain pens. Or hats, TBH.
And from my observation, not a whole lot of people from Outerwear seem to post elsewhere, just as it would appear that I've never seen a lot of otherwise very active people, from other sub-forums seem, ever posting anything in Outerwear.
What I said earlier, I'm not sure how the mods / owners of the place feel about us transforming the Outerwear into what it had become but fact of the matter is that the Outerwear did evolve into its own thing and while it still is resolving around vintage fashion, it no longer is dedicated (exclusively) to the Golden Age, that's for sure. For the better or for worse... I can't say but @Superfluous is spot on about Outerwear being the premier Outerwear forum on the internet, bar none. There just isn't anything quite like it online. Sure, there are many fashion forums out there but this place is the only one that covers every single aspect of a this hobby. We won't go half-ass about our jackets. Every stitch counts and you won't get that either on SF or SuFu or Reddit.
Point I'm trying to make is that I too agree that threads started in Outerwear should be left right here (provided they're still related to Outerwear as Jackets and Pets is (was)), 'cause people looking for a specific bit of info about any piece of outerwear are going to hit this place first.
Furthermore, I believe that the Outerwear is a much more befitting home for any boots / shoes related thread, rather than the General Attire, where they're being moved. Boots are outerwear and in an absence of a Footwear related sub-forum, any talk about boots has to take place in the same forum where Jackets are being discussed. Boots and jackets are how I would pretty much define the term outerwear and having Engineer boots thread in a different forum frankly doesn't make any sense at all to me.
There's another problem with merging threads elsewhere, one of an entirely personal nature but I may not be alone in this... I'm not sure I want my photos outside of the Outerwear. I know it's all the same, yeah but this feels like a home to me, I know most people who post here and when I share something, I want to share it with this specific group of people. But that is irrelevant.
Superfluous
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^^^
Money talks. There are already several "victims" of this thread being where it is - leather jackets fans who purchased their first quality boots, myself included. That would not happen if this thread was elsewhere. A lot of "jacket junkies" simply don't go to other parts of TFL, fine as they may be. I would urge moderating such threads in moderation. And of course I am thankful to the mods here. They are the best on the net.
dudewuttheheck
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The outerwear section is basically it's own forum at this point.
I understand that the owners and mods may not like that, but it's too late to do anything about it.
As @Superfluous and @Monitor have said, this is by far the best place to discuss leather jackets on the internet and it isn't even close. Why the engineer boots thread was moved is beyond me. They're my favorite boots and I used to participate quite often in that thread. Now that it's moved, I tried to participate in it, but I gave up.
Unlike the others, I do once in a while participate in other parts of the forum, hats specifically because I have an interest in them as well, but I still greatly disagree with threads being merged.
I understand that the intentions are there, it is very clear that the results do not work out.
I understand that the owners and mods may not like that, but it's too late to do anything about it.
As @Superfluous and @Monitor have said, this is by far the best place to discuss leather jackets on the internet and it isn't even close. Why the engineer boots thread was moved is beyond me. They're my favorite boots and I used to participate quite often in that thread. Now that it's moved, I tried to participate in it, but I gave up.
Unlike the others, I do once in a while participate in other parts of the forum, hats specifically because I have an interest in them as well, but I still greatly disagree with threads being merged.
I understand that the intentions are there, it is very clear that the results do not work out.
Dav
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I forgot this pair when we were discussing straps the other day. These fit a treat, possibly the best, without a strap at all.
Wesco Boss
Wesco Boss
Robbie79
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Does someone of you guys know the leather thickness /heaviness difference between Clinch Horsebutt - Attractions Horsebutt and Clinch Latigo leather? I suppose Clinch and Attractions use the same thickness/heaviness and the Latigo leather is even thicker/heavier, right?
Thanks, Robbie
Thanks, Robbie
Edward
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It's interesting the difference this makes to the look. I imagine for ertain kind of work it's probably a lotmore pratical too - eaqsier to clean, and no strap to get caught on machinery...
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I completely agree with Super, Dude and Monitor; in the 8 years or more that I’ve been visiting the lounge I’ve never ventured away from Outerwear and classifieds.
When threads get merged elsewhere to me is the same as if they’re deleted, unfortunately.
I’d really appreciate if they’re not merged. I do understand the reasoning behind but I disagree with such reasoning.
Thanks though to the moderators for your excellent (and voluntary) work.
When threads get merged elsewhere to me is the same as if they’re deleted, unfortunately.
I’d really appreciate if they’re not merged. I do understand the reasoning behind but I disagree with such reasoning.
Thanks though to the moderators for your excellent (and voluntary) work.
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Hasn't gone away at all. Here is the link:
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/loungers-pets.13228/page-231#post-2702461
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/loungers-pets.13228/page-231#post-2702461
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