Field Leathers

[Feliksas]

Tricky, tricky...because of how I plan to abuse my jacket, there's some threshold to what it can cost. But then there's also the question of who's willing to make it at all; Aero hasn't gotten back to me in 2 weeks about a type III variant, Thedi was pretty fast last time I asked, nothing heard yet from Field, although I wrote on a Thursday, so...maybe next week.

Alas, if it weren't for my desire to have something uncharacteristically long, I could get a 42 off the rack...

Will let you know how it goes,

-D

 

[MrProper]

Tricky, tricky...because of how I plan to abuse my jacket, there's some threshold to what it can cost. But then there's also the question of who's willing to make it at all; Aero hasn't gotten back to me in 2 weeks about a type III variant, Thedi was pretty fast last time I asked, nothing heard yet from Field, although I wrote on a Thursday, so...maybe next week.

Alas, if it weren't for my desire to have something uncharacteristically long, I could get a 42 off the rack...

Will let you know how it goes,

-D

Perhaps a Type 1 or Type 3 made from bison from Rugged West would be an option? Leilah will certainly make the jacket longer for you (although I doubt that this will look favourable).

 

[Feliksas]

Perhaps a Type 1 or Type 3 made from bison from Rugged West would be an option? Leilah will certainly make the jacket longer for you (although I doubt that this will look favourable).

This might be the lead that I was looking for! Very happy with Aero for fashion and durability, but this could be the jacket I get long, not for looks...much thanks!

 

[Bfd70]

Can anyone name a super small (1-2 people) where these crazy lead times is not the case? Seems the model doesn’t work.

 

[Tom71]

Can anyone name a super small (1-2 people) where these crazy lead times is not the case? Seems the model doesn’t work.

Not if you’re trying to make a living, no. If the crucial factor is “time spend sewing the jacket together“, there is only so much you can do to optimise your processes other than hiring more machinists.

I am currently speaking to a super small maker too. A rookie to the trade, and he charges EUR 1.400 per jacket. His approach seems sound, but that’s quite a prize for a newbie without any lookbook to speak off.
He‘s only accepting four orders per year, which is a good thing right now, but no way to turn a hobby into a profession.
I will let you know when my jackets sees the light of day.

 

[MickeyPunch]

Can anyone name a super small (1-2 people) where these crazy lead times is not the case? Seems the model doesn’t work.

I can say that I’m pretty sure Electric Leather Studio is a one man shop and I can’t say lead times are short but he was 100% spot on in both estimates he gave me. Maybe it’s a Japanese thing, but obviously being one guy there’s still the chance of illness and whatnot.

 

[Cheech]

Can anyone name a super small (1-2 people) where these crazy lead times is not the case? Seems the model doesn’t work.

Lost Worlds is known for a quick turn-around time.

 

[Bfd70]

Good point. My LW was complete exactly in the quoted time which was 12 weeks.

 

[El Marro]

Can anyone name a super small (1-2 people) where these crazy lead times is not the case? Seems the model doesn’t work.

I think it only works long enough to build the hype and then when the orders snowball it quickly becomes overwhelming.Overnight the dream scenario turns into a real nightmare with too many orders and only one person to make them.
Inevitably they run the risk of being called Clown Penis by loyal members of TFLU Local 1.

 

[Aloysius]

Can anyone name a super small (1-2 people) where these crazy lead times is not the case? Seems the model doesn’t work.

I know and have gotten from several, but I think the crucial difference is that they are primarily brick and mortar stores that market by word of mouth. A lot of tailor shops are like this–one or two cutters, and each customer is handled by a specific machinist whose work suits that customer's needs. The first suit I had made in London (and not even from a super expensive firm; one that is around Aero's prices) took about two weeks, including a delay from the fabric mill. I got patterned, had my fittings, etc in that time, and that wasn't a rush order. Also only paid 50% down, 50% on completion, and was fitted by the same guy who measured me and cut my pattern.

One in the workwear space that seems to have solid turnaround despite being a very small is TCB, but what helps for them is probably that even though there's just a couple of machinists, they have a handful of others who do things like run the business, accounting, website etc. I think there's probably an exponential value in those first few employees.

Not.if you’re trying to make a living, no. If the crucial factor is “time spend sewing the jacket together“, theres only so much you can do to optimise your processes Other than hiring more machinists.

I am currently speaking to a super small maker too. A rookie to the trade, and he charges EUR 1.400 per jacket. His approach seems sound, but that’s quite a prize for a newbie without any lookbook to speak off.
He‘s only accepting four orders per year, which is a good thing right now, but no way to turn a hobby into a profession.
I will let you know when my jackets sees the light of day.

I think this guy's approach seems sound. Set a firm cap so that it doesn't consume all of your time and you can deliver to your customers in time. Very curious about what you end up ordering.

 

[Canuck Panda]

In my experience people with the skills to build are usually not very good at time management. There are only 24 hours in a day. Each individual little things takes a specific time. There is a major difference between taking the 30 minutes to unbox the leather and stock them than to have your supplier to do the same job, JIT. If your suppliers are just dumping the boxes in front of your shop then you gotta build the extra time into your process and adjust both your order taking and order making time accordingly, and of course price. I don't think most small makers are doing this hence the backlog gets bigger and bigger. And to keep the lights on and cash flow going they resort to special runs as a hail merry but that's just band aid and not actually improving time management.

As a customer I am aware and expect this. Some small makers are better than others, probably because they are in a bigger city with much better supply chain. There is a difference in making a jacket in the boonies by yourself than making jackets in a bigger city where there is still a thriving garment district with all its infrastructure.

I would say with the small makers that have major backlogs, be up front with them, respectfully, if they aren't cutting my jacket and sending me pics of that by the 11th month, it would automatically trigger the refund process. Unless I am ok with waiting indefinitely...

 

[MrProper]

In my experience people with the skills to build are usually not very good at time management.

I have relatively little sympathy for that. When I open a shop, it's clear that I have to take all the tasks that arise into account in terms of time. And if I do that, then I also know the maximum and minimum number of jackets I can manage in a month. And if I want to sell more, I have to expand. If I'm not intellectually capable of doing that, I shouldn't open a shop (I'm talking in general and not about individual people who I have no idea how they do it)
And yet that doesn't explain the 100% deposit with no cancellation option. Once the money is in the account, people are reluctant to part with it again. In this respect, this measure stems from the fear that the market could collapse and then what I have is what I have, or life is financed from the down payments even though the money has not yet been earned. If the tax then hits unexpectedly, the pyramid scheme is perfect.

All just speculation, of course.

 

[Canuck Panda]

I have relatively little sympathy for that. When I open a shop, it's clear that I have to take all the tasks that arise into account in terms of time. And if I do that, then I also know the maximum and minimum number of jackets I can manage in a month. And if I want to sell more, I have to expand. If I'm not intellectually capable of doing that, I shouldn't open a shop (I'm talking in general and not about individual people who I have no idea how they do it)
And yet that doesn't explain the 100% deposit with no cancellation option. Once the money is in the account, people are reluctant to part with it again. In this respect, this measure stems from the fear that the market could collapse and then what I have is what I have, or life is financed from the down payments even though the money has not yet been earned. If the tax then hits unexpectedly, the pyramid scheme is perfect.

All just speculation, of course.

I also have more sympathy for my own money.

There are a lot of small businesses out there in the same boat as Field Leathers, very good at what they do but horrible at delivering what they can do. They usually go under with time unless it's so niche that they just keep dragging on. The thing is there will always be more talented start ups because the population is always growing. So the paying customers actually have the favorable odds of the house over longer period of time. We just gotta know when to cash out.

My only advise for myself and others is to set a sell off limit and be up front about it. My bank allows me to dispute any charges within a year or so, so I would set my refund claim at 11 month. Unless I absolutely wants something and will be ok if it doesn't come until my death bed. Those cases are extreme rare these days. The used market is growing and it seems there is at least one new maker coming up every year now.

None of this is to take away what Greg or the other talented makers can do. I will always give them that. They are very good at what they can do, they just can't deliver what they can do most of the time.

 

[Momein]

I have relatively little sympathy for that. When I open a shop, it's clear that I have to take all the tasks that arise into account in terms of time. And if I do that, then I also know the maximum and minimum number of jackets I can manage in a month. And if I want to sell more, I have to expand. If I'm not intellectually capable of doing that, I shouldn't open a shop (I'm talking in general and not about individual people who I have no idea how they do it)
And yet that doesn't explain the 100% deposit with no cancellation option. Once the money is in the account, people are reluctant to part with it again. In this respect, this measure stems from the fear that the market could collapse and then what I have is what I have, or life is financed from the down payments even though the money has not yet been earned. If the tax then hits unexpectedly, the pyramid scheme is perfect.

All just speculation, of course.

I've already said something about payment in this thread, but I'd like to say it again - I paid a deposit of £300 for both my jackets (I received the second one at the end of July after 13 months of waiting) and the rest when Greg actually made the jackets. Incidentally, I was able to cancel the order up to that point. Of course, it is possible that he has changed his conditions in the meantime. But even if the website says otherwise, I honestly don't believe it. But if that were indeed the case, I probably wouldn't order a jacket today either.

 

[Bfd70]

Not to be pedantic but taking money for a product and not delivering it in a timely manner is not a pyramid scheme. It’s just bad business.

 

[Aloysius]

Not to be pedantic but taking money for a product and not delivering it in a timely manner is not a pyramid scheme. It’s just bad business.

I think the pyramid scheme reference was more about the earlier discussion of Kreosote or whatever the hell he's called, who seems like a true scam.

Field doesn't do 100% non refundable deposits.

 

[bigmanbigtruck]

Not to be pedantic but taking money for a product and not delivering it in a timely manner is not a pyramid scheme. It’s just bad business.

You're right it's bad business.

But I think the pyramid scheme is coming more from the idea where they have this perpetual stream of unfulfilled orders that keep getting delayed... while taking on even more orders and money upfront without much in the way of providing buyer protection, i.e. refusing a refund when too much time has passed. What would be really bad is if the new influx of money is being used to fulfil the previous set of orders.

Not saying this is 100% applicable to Field Leathers, like mentioned earlier there was a similar discussion going on with Kreosote which has bled over here a bit - just why I think some feel this kind of business model is a pyramid scheme.

 

[MrProper]

Not to be pedantic but taking money for a product and not delivering it in a timely manner is not a pyramid scheme. It’s just bad business.

Yes, of course. It's all speculation and insinuation. And in reality it is bad business, not fraudulent intent as in a pyramid scheme. Even if the result can be the same if things go badly.
Again, generally speaking.
I used to do it in such a way that income for which I had not yet rendered a service went into a separate account. In other words, they did not ‘exist’ for me. I only took the money once I had provided the service. I did the same with tax.
If I do it this way, a small down payment is of course enough (which is also better for tax purposes).

Field doesn't do 100% non refundable deposits.

That's great.
However, I would not write the opposite on the website. You can read about this under Prices and Cancellation in the Terms & Conditions

 

[navetsea]

leonardo da vinci, also has a reputation a long/ slow turnover or even sometime never truly finished commission iirc

 

[PilotJens]

How long does it take to make one detailed jacket anyway? I can remember some saying that a machinist makes one jacket a day if everything goes right but I think they had the lining and cutting done by someone else .
So can we calculate how many orders he has taken on to create these lead times ?
When a bigger shop makes you wait 12months with 10 ? machinists but a small shop ?