Calling on all AERO "Happy Days" Jacket owners...

[Grayland]

I think the hesitancy to give exact P-P measurements may be due to the tendency of many of us (here) to expect our jackets to measure precisely as we have requested. I just don't think it's possible to guarantee a measurement to the 1/4-inch when dealing with the thick horsehide/steerhide that Aero often uses. I would still expect a reasonably close P-P measurement and I do find that it is very easy to buy jackets once you have your measurements dialed in.

 

[Fanch]

I have a size 42 Pioneer with the following measurements:
pit to pit - 24.5"
sleeves - 27.25"
shoulder - 20"
back - 26"

The Pioneer is similar all of Aero's 50's jackets, including the Happy Days. I had a bit added to sleeves and back ( I am 6'2"). Based on current information, I would imagine that a size 42 Happy Days would work fine. Since you are over 6'3" you might want to consider a 26.5" or even 27" back, which would have worked for me as well. Since you live in Australia, I'm not too sure if it would be worthwhile to have a fit jacket sent from Insurrection, even if they were to have a size 42 Happy Days in stock.

 

[Seb Lucas]

24.5 inch for a 42 seems large to me. But the Aero patterns vary.

In getting a first leather jacket this stuff is easy to overthink.

Can't you just find a jacket you like the fit of and measure it?

My chest is 41 inches, I wear a 42 or 44 depending on the cut. 22.5 to 24 inches pit to pit works. The style of jacket you want isn't a slim fit - I'd simply request a pit measurement around 4 inches more than my chest measurement.

 

[schitzo]

I had one once - long time ago now - and it did fit big. I was told to size down, which worked

 

[Dagenham Dave]

I find this fact so enourmously stupid that I think I will never buy an Aero!

What kind of knowledge and control over a product do you have if no one from the factory can't tell you the measurements pit to pit? Vanson does it!

My only explanation is that they are affraid to compromise with a pit to pit measurement because themselves dont trust their manufacturing process to produce something within half an inch tolerance, lets say... Maybe the less experienced people (ex-trainees) at aero are only able to do it within a 1,5 inch tolerance, that's why they wont tell you.

The pattern behind your jacket is somewhat simple and probably worked/ manufactured by less experienced employees.

Of course, if you choose a 44' and then it measures 25 inch pit to pit they will say you ordered it bigger. On the other hand, if you choose a 42' and the guy doing the jacket produces a smaller then usual with a 21' pit to pit, than it was your problem also. If they have it in stock, they will happily give away the measurements because the jacket would be sent to you with those exact measurements - no problem upon compromising!

Summarizing, you will embark in a kind of russian roullete: the fir could be ok like 84% of the times and not ok the other 16%.

It is your money anyway.

Exactly my thoughts!!! Very bad customer service I feel.

 

[Dagenham Dave]

Can't you just find a jacket you like the fit of and measure it?

I know exactly the measurements I want. It's just that Aero can't supply nor guarantee them!

 

[Superfluous]

The other problem is that people measure jackets differently. Some stretch the leather as much as possible -- others don't. Some measure from the front of a seam -- others from the back. I have seen people measure the same jacket and come up with numbers that vary by a full inch.

 

[dan_t]

The other problem is that people measure jackets differently. Some stretch the leather as much as possible -- others don't. Some measure from the front of a seam -- others from the back. I have seen people measure the same jacket and come up with numbers that vary by a full inch.

I couldn't agree more.

An AL jacket that I recently purchased was advertised with a 23" back. When I received it, I measured it and am confident that it's actually 24".
I have measured the arms & can get three distinctly different length measurements depending whether I measure along the outside (curve) of the arm, straight down the middle, or peak shoulder to lowest part of the cuff. The differences in measurements span a full 2 "!

I would suggest having someone take several photo's of you with the tape measure clearly around your various 'bits' & send these to Aero so they can actually 'see' how you are measuring your torso. They are experts at making their product - actually having more visual information about you will assist them to create a piece that you will love for many years to come.

p.s. I'd love to know how you go with pickings & parry. I have been meaning to pop in on one of my work trips, but just haven't been able to just yet.

 

[nick123]

I know it won't rest your uncertainty, but if you're going with the Aero, I'm comfortable with stating a size 42 is the right size. You have two people telling you it's the right size, plus that ebay listing, which is a good sign. That's great confirmation.
It's true that Aero sometimes deviates from what you actually order. They are pretty transparent about it, so that's not anything to hold them accountable for really, unless it's a variance of greater than half an inch.

When I spec'd my Highwayman to have a 27" back length, it was delivered with a 26.25" back length. What happened, I think was that they could have counted the front of the jacket you see from the rear that hangs below the true back as the back length, which came out to right about 27". It was at least .75 of an inch off, when they guarantee a .5" tolerance. I could have raised hell, but I didn't. Why? Because I had to take into consideration that I'm not a very good measurer myself, and it actually could have fallen within the .5" tolerance and not have been that front overhang at all. One little crease despite doing your best to get the thing flat can possibly throw off your measurement a bit.

Measuring can be difficult alone, and two different hands measuring the same thing might produce different results. And I think jackets at times can be difficult to measure, especially the sleeves. Shoulders for any leather are a relatively simple measurement.

And before Chris from Aerial Star shipped out my A-2, which had a body length incorrectly made in a standard length when I requested a tall (which I accepted after he told me he'd do a remake right away, that was my choice and he wasn't at fault for that), he told me it was 26" on the money, which I could live with. But after measuring three or four times when I received it, I just couldn't see it being 26" at all unless I physically pulled the jacket as flat as possible while measuring with the tape in my hand. I was adamant it was 25.5". But was I really measuring in the ideal setting, on a carpeted floor? Maybe not.

I know these things are great money, but I just realized sometimes measurements can just be goofy and complicated. It's the dark side of jacket consumerism I suppose. It's not fair to be so sure the maker has made an off jacket, unless you're positive you're a solid measurer yourself. If you're flat unhappy with it being off .025" of an inch, that's not the makers responsibility. Sometimes they'll do a remake, but it's not respectful in my book to get whiny about something like that.

Definitely take up the offer of a return or exchange before wearing it if you aren't happy with it. You might post your new acquisition here and everyone will ooh and aww but if you aren't quite happy with it, send it back if it's off by a fair amount.

They'll get it right, and I doubt any company is intentionally out to deliver incorrectly made jackets to anyone. I know the general picture in one's mind is that jackets with incorrect dimensions are rushed out of the factory with little emphasis on getting it right.

As for Aero, Alan at Johnson leathers has told me in person that heavier hides (cxl) can be more difficult to work with, and I even had a jacket from them in a lighter hide which was close to an inch off. But was it fair to state this? I spent maybe 20 seconds with the tape in my hand, then sunk into a deep depression declaring it was off in my head and I had been sold a bunk jacket. If I had the jacket now and remeasured today without haste, it would probably be within a margin of reasonable error.

I honestly just called it a day and accepted that many times many makers might deliver a jacket with a difference in specs from what you ordered, but that I needed to be absolutely sure I was measuring correctly myself before getting upset at a maker. I wasn't confident in that. I wonder how many times a maker gets a return jacket from a customer who stated the jacket wasn't delivered as promised, but when they measure themselves it's right on the money. Probably often. But significant mistakes happen. Little variances from order to finished product often come with the turf though.

Tldr

 

[Seb Lucas]

I know exactly the measurements I want. It's just that Aero can't supply nor guarantee them!

I find that odd. When I have asked them for jackets they always agreed to cut them to my measurements. Mind you you need to understand that a hand made item can vary half an inch or so in each measurement. That never really makes much difference anyhow when worn. As written earlier maybe some customer's literal interpretations of measurements has made them a bit shy to be specific in case it is out a tiny bit and rejected. Just saying...

 

[Dagenham Dave]

I find that odd. When I have asked them for jackets they always agreed to cut them to my measurements. Mind you you need to understand that a hand made item can vary half an inch or so in each measurement. That never really makes much difference anyhow when worn.

It might seem odd, but it's true. Holly told me they don't work to custom measurements other than sleeve and back length, and they can't tell me a pit-to-pit for the "Happy Days" jacket.

 

[Seb Lucas]

It might seem odd, but it's true. Holly told me they don't work to custom measurements other than sleeve and back length, and they can't tell me a pit-to-pit for the "Happy Days" jacket.

Okay, things have changed then. I'm sure they know what they are doing but I'd probably go elsewhere then, as I'm sure you will. I actually prefer the look of the Ariel Star version and it's cheaper.

 

[Rudie]

But surely they can use your custom measurements to determine which stock size fits best? Also, I have had them taper my jackets down to account for a bigger than usual drop between shoulders/chest and waist. If you give them your measurements and give them a good idea how you want the jacket to fit they can surely steer you in the right direction. Or, try Thurston's fit jacket service.

 

[Dagenham Dave]

Okay, things have changed then. I'm sure they know what they are doing but I'd probably go elsewhere then, as I'm sure you will. I actually prefer the look of the Ariel Star version and it's cheaper.

Hey Seb,

Just for proof, here is my last email from Holly received this morning:

Hi Dave

Thanks for your email, however as I’ve previously explained we can’t make a jacket to match the measurements of another jacket aside from in sleeve and back length.

I advise previously a size 42” would probably be best in a Happy Days if you’re looking for a neat fit. We can do this with 26” back and 27” sleeves if you’d like?

Holly​

And I agree with your recommendation for the Aerial Star. It's much cheaper, and he guarantees his measurements.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Seb Lucas]

Jeez Dave, I understand how you feel at $1000 (Aust) you want more than "probably be best". Holly may be right but... By the way, at your height I'd be wanting a longer back and getting the back length right with knits isn't straight forward. I'd be going a 27 inch back or longer. I'm an inch shorter than you and that is about right for me. Maybe try on a local nylon flight jacket with knits at a disposal store and see what length works best for you.

 

[Dagenham Dave]

But surely they can use your custom measurements to determine which stock size fits best? Also, I have had them taper my jackets down to account for a bigger than usual drop between shoulders/chest and waist. If you give them your measurements and give them a good idea how you want the jacket to fit they can surely steer you in the right direction. Or, try Thurston's fit jacket service.

It seems to me that this service is no longer available direct from AERO themselves (for whatever reason) (NOTE that I have underlined important disclaimers I read in Holly's reply):

Hi Dave

Thanks for your enquiry.

I’m afraid we cannot make a jacket to match measurements specified aside from with sleeve and back lengths, and even then due to the nature of the production we cannot guarantee them to be 100% accurate.

If you’d like our advice on sizing we’ll need your actual body measurements as outlined below. Once we’ve worked out what should be the right size for you, if we have a jacket in stock I can then measure it up and we can compare it to your ideals.

Note, please measure over the clothes you would wear with the jacket, for example if you will wear it with a thick sweater, please measure yourself whilst wearing one.

Height
Chest (relaxed)
Chest (expanded)
Stomach (at widest point)
Waist (actual waist, not jeans size)

Thanks,
Holly​

Unfortunately they have no "Happy Days" jackets in stock to measure, and like I have said can/will not provide an estimated pit-to-pit for a 42 or 44.

Maybe I will contact Thurston.

Dave

 

[Dagenham Dave]

Jeez Dave, I understand how you feel at $1000 (Aust) you want more than "probably be best". Holly may be right but... By the way, at your height I'd be wanting a longer back and getting the back length right with knits isn't straight forward. I'd be going a 27 inch back or longer. I'm an inch shorter than you and that is about right for me. Maybe try on a local nylon flight jacket with knits at a disposal store and see what length works best for you.

Hi Seb,

Yep. Pretty dismal from Aero really!

All my other 50s repro jackets have a 27" length when measured from where the collar starts at the top shoulder seam down to the bottom of the ribbed waist cuffing (or a 26" center back length as measured from the bottom of the collar down to the bottom edge of the wool knit waistband). That has them all sitting just below my belt line on my Shrink-to-Fit 501 jeans. For me a perfect length.

According to Chris at Aerial Star, there is less than a 1/2" rise between the center back and the shoulder seam. And I don't want this jacket to be too long, because too long is not very early 50s. So the Aerial Star with a center back length at 26.5" should be near on perfect.

Dave

 

[Rudie]

I think you probably had some wrong assumptions about Aero to begin with. They do customization in terms of details as well as sleeve and back length, but they don't do bespoke to individual measurements and - to my knowledge - never did.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Go Aerial Star. It'd be great of they did a half-belt too.

 

[Otter]

I think you probably had some wrong assumptions about Aero to begin with. They do customization in terms of details as well as sleeve and back length, but they don't do bespoke to individual measurements and - to my knowledge - never did.

I seem to remember that they cut back on the amount of customization that they were willing to do when Ken came back following Storsegate. There were just too many Frankenjackets where dimensions had been altered beyond all reason.