Cads on the subway

[Widebrim]

Perhaps in 1909 women were delicate and physically inferior to men; a woman in that day and age concerned herself with housework. Not heavy machinery, the duties of a police-officer, dog-trainer, prison-guard or any other occupation that a man might do.

A hundred years later that's becoming less and less the case. A man (of gentle breeding or not) offering his seat to a lady is a matter of MANNERS and nothing else. Women who take offense at things like this (men offering their seats, opening doors, etc), are, in my opinion - reading far too much into common courtesy. We men are not implying *anything* other than the fact that our parents taught us to be nice and polite and courteous.

It's true that in 1909 women were "officially" considered delicate and physically inferior to men, but the fact is that up until a few decades ago, the majority of women lived in agricultural areas, and were far from delicate. (My older realtives who lived on the farm back in Pennsylvannia were from from weak.) However, being a police officer, dog trainer, or prison guard, does not necessarily guarantee that anyone is physically strong (which is why I believe that police officers should be at least average height and physically strong enough to take someone else down, hand-to-hand training and sidearms aside). But you're right that what we are speaking about here is manners, even if they are outdated ones...

 

[Carlisle Blues]

And not to muddy the issue completely, but this whole gentlemanly manners thing...is no exclusive domain of the 'vintage enthusiast' either...

I have had to open vintage car doors myself, had numerous building doors slam in my nose...etc.....all by the suited and supposedly 'mannerly' vintage enthusiast, despite what they might -say- about the topic.

I know -why-...and that reason means that for those sorts...manners are something to be used to gain what one wants....which hardly qualifies as mannerly then.

Bingo>>>>>>>the ulterior motive hmmmmmm....hardly vintage and very much alive today.

 

[Widebrim]

In 1942, my great-aunt Edith became, so far as we know, the first female longshoreman in Maine. After the war she became a foreman in a shoe factory. She was never, ever "dependent" on anyone.

And if some guy on a bus didn't offer her a seat when she needed one, she'd have pulled him up by his collar and decked him.

Now, that's a woman!:eusa_clap

 

[Widebrim]

Leaving the gravid, elderly, and those of broken limbs out of this:

Women, on the whole, made a choice about forty years ago that they wanted to be (and rightfully) considered as strong as men and this means both physically and emotionally. Men might not have liked it, but they accepted it (eventually) and now this is the world we live in.

From my experience, the statement that women are emotionally as strong as a man holds merit (except, perhaps, under some circumstances). Yet as regards physical strength, women are not generally as strong as men, even if some want to believe this. Even men who do not exercise have a natural advantage, as regards strength, over the average woman due to muscle mass. It reminds me of when I was in the service (Infantry and Cavalry, all male)...When getting on a truck, we would sometimes hand our machine guns (which are larger than regular rifles) to a GI already on the vehicle (or, when exiting, hand it to someone already on the ground) because it made it easier to get on (or off). However, it was quite common to see women from other outfits, hand their M-16s or M-4s to other Soldiers on a truck or on the ground simply because they couldn't get up or down with the weapons. If women are physically as strong as men, then why in the service do women have lesser physical requirements than men (push-ups, sit-ups, chin-ups, running)? (I believe this is also true in police departments.) This is mentioned not to downgrade women, but to point out a demonstrable fact. Now as regards standing up on a bus, I believe that's something a woman can do that just as well as a man, but then I'll still stand up for her...out of respect for her gender. Soapbox sermon finished.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Now as regards standing up on a bus, I believe that's something a woman can do that just as well as a man, but then I'll still stand up for her...out of respect for her gender. Soapbox sermon finished.

So what happens when a woman who -respects- the male gender sees a man get on a bus?

 

[Carlisle Blues]

So what happens when a woman who -respects- the male gender sees a man get on a bus?

It depends on whether she is ill-bred

 

[Miss Neecerie]

It depends on whether she is ill-bred

Maybe we just need to remove the seats from the darn bus, so that everyone can respect everyone else all at the same time!

 

[Elaina]

So what happens when a woman who -respects- the male gender sees a man get on a bus?

It depends. If he's bogged down with shopping/children/elderly/infirm and there's not room I get up and give him my seat. If he's as hale and hearty as I am, I move my feet/over so he can stand comfortably and is in my general area. If I'm getting off in 1-2 stops, I offer it.

There IS a way to do this without seeming pushy about it. Usually I say something like "Oh, I'm getting off XX place, would you care to sit down? It'll make it easier on both of us!" (there abouts).

 

[Miss Neecerie]

It depends. If he's bogged down with shopping/children/elderly/infirm and there's not room I get up and give him my seat. If he's as hale and hearty as I am, I move my feet/over so he can stand comfortably and is in my general area. If I'm getting off in 1-2 stops, I offer it.

Exactly. But that is then not -gender- based...but rather situational based...as I am assuming here you would have the same exact reaction to a woman.


Courtesy and manners need not be based solely on gender...and in fact they really -should not- be -just- that.

 

[Shangas]

Originally Posted by LizzieMaine
In 1942, my great-aunt Edith became, so far as we know, the first female longshoreman in Maine. After the war she became a foreman in a shoe factory. She was never, ever "dependent" on anyone.

And if some guy on a bus didn't offer her a seat when she needed one, she'd have pulled him up by his collar and decked him.

I think I like your aunt!

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Exactly. But that is then not -gender- based...but rather situational based...as I am assuming here you would have the same exact reaction to a woman.


Courtesy and manners need not be based solely on gender...and in fact they really -should not- be -just- that.

As a matter of law you are correct............this nonsensical issue can now be put to rest...

 

[Elaina]

Exactly. But that is then not -gender- based...but rather situational based...as I am assuming here you would have the same exact reaction to a woman.


Courtesy and manners need not be based solely on gender...and in fact they really -should not- be -just- that.

Not really, no. But if it came to a woman and a man, I would offer it to the woman first. I once was on one and faced with 2 old people, both in about the same shape. I gave my seat to the woman, stood next to the elderly man and carried a conversation, and did it in such a way that he used me as support.

That situation WAS gender based, although I tried to help both of them.

 

[C-dot]

Maybe we just need to remove the seats from the darn bus, so that everyone can respect everyone else all at the same time!

lol

The bus is the pits. I don't know what it is about public transit that all the loudest, creepiest, and most un-hygienic people like to pile on it when I'm using it!

 

[ladybrettashley]

Maybe we just need to remove the seats from the darn bus, so that everyone can respect everyone else all at the same time!

Perhaps we ought to remove the busses entirely; heaven knows people are always respectful and courteous when driving cars!

 

[HadleyH]

Oh well, in the end, one has to live according to one's principles whether or not they accord with the mainstream ethos. As regards traditional propriety and this thread, I am satisfied that those from the old school will automatically know what I mean and those who don't will never understand.

Sure. One has to live according to one's principles, i won't argue that.

BTW have you thought of buying a car ...and be done with it klind65? Just a suggestion...[huh]

 

[Feraud]

Originally Posted by klind65
Oh well, in the end, one has to live according to one's principles whether or not they accord with the mainstream ethos. As regards traditional propriety and this thread, I am satisfied that those from the old school will automatically know what I mean and those who don't will never understand.

Meaning only those who agree with your subjective point of view are "old school"? I guess you do not value in opinions that differ from yours..
Traditional morals indeed...

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Meaning only those who agree with your subjective point of view are "old school"? I guess you do not value in opinions that differ from yours..
Traditional morals indeed...

:arated:

 

[C-dot]

Meaning only those who agree with your subjective point of view are "old school"? I guess you do not value in opinions that differ from yours..
Traditional morals indeed...

Touché!

 

[HadleyH]

Meaning only those who agree with your subjective point of view are "old school"? I guess you do not value in opinions that differ from yours..
Traditional morals indeed...

well said :eusa_clap

 

[Paisley]

Sure. One has to live according to one's principles, i won't argue that.

BTW have you thought of buying a car ...and be done with it klind65? Just a suggestion...[huh]

Assuming that old school ladies drive their own carriages, that sounds like a good solution.