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Borsalino Quality

Messages
17,477
Location
Maryland
Thanks!

The article I posted is from the time period when manual hot wet brush Velour methods were disappearing and what the German and Austrian regarded as Echter (Real) / Prima Velour was being threatened by what they considered imitation Velour. If you read the article you will see what they consider Echter / Prima Velour (basically if it's not hot wet brushed (plus other processes) and made of high quality Hare it's not Real / Prima Velour). Finish wise they break it down into 3 types Velour, Soleil and Flamand. I have to believe this accurate because this was a Deutsche Hutmacher Zeitung (German Hat Makers News) publication. The pre WWII hat industry ads for hoods that I have seen just mention Velour (not Flamand or Soleil).
 
Messages
17,477
Location
Maryland
Nice Borsalinos. The Marque Grand Luxe by Borsalino was a 1950s-60s closely shaved velour finish hat sold in several qualities (up to XXXXXX) - must have been a popular import as it shows up quite frequently in the vintage market with U.S. markings.

grandluxe3.jpg


grandluxe7.jpg


This Colombo you posted is another example of a similar velour finish. The examples I have seen of this model were Italian market hats - this one is an XX also.

colombo1.jpg


colombo2.jpg


colombo3.jpg


These are beautiful felts but quite a different animal to the luxurious German/Austrian velours

peschel4.jpg

Alan, Thanks again!

Here is 1930s J. Hückel´s Söhne Alpha Seal Velour. I think everyone should be able to see the difference.

7085044273_d821f1497e_b.jpg


This 1930s Hückel Superior Crystall Velour is another great example.

4710377722_9fa5dfe698_b.jpg
 
Last edited:

TheDane

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,670
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
I have seen Plush used too. Also Melusine. For example FEPSA uses this term but I don't believe it's historicaly correct.

I am pretty sure the article I posted above is on point regarding industry terms for soft felt hats (from when it really mattered).
I'm sure, you're right about industry terms. "Pelouche" could be a popular term, though - like Esther's "Teddy finish". Actually I think, that "Pelouche" also is used for a Nylon-product, sometimes used for children's clothes and liners (imitated fur), that we call "Teddybear" in DK.

Lovely Seal Velour, btw! To judge from the brim edge, the felt seems very thick ... or is it just me? Does it feel heavy? :)
 
Messages
17,477
Location
Maryland
Very unique finish on this one.

Just the other day - Sleepy Borso
View attachment 58416

This image had been brightened slightly
View attachment 58418

Here's a pic Besdor posted from his visit to the Borsalino museum:
View attachment 58425

Could you take a side view of the first one? I would like to have a closer look at the finish. It's really great!

It would be interesting to know when the bottom was made. My guess is it's pre WWII. I can't really see the finish because of the photo but it's a beauty. Thanks for tracking it down.
 
Messages
17,477
Location
Maryland
I'm sure, you're right about industry terms. "Pelouche" could be a popular term, though - like Esther's "Teddy finish". Actually I think, that "Pelouche" also is used for a Nylon-product, sometimes used for children's clothes and liners (imitated fur), that we call "Teddybear" in DK.

Lovely Seal Velour, btw! To judge from the brim edge, the felt seems very thick ... or is it just me? Does it feel heavy? :)

Ole, Yes they are both thicker Velour and both tiny sizes. Hückel Superior Crystall Velour is a size 54 cm and weighs 118 grams.
 

addison

One of the Regulars
Messages
164
Location
Wisconsin
Nice Borsalinos. The Marque Grand Luxe by Borsalino was a 1950s-60s closely shaved velour finish hat sold in several qualities (up to XXXXXX) - must have been a popular import as it shows up quite frequently in the vintage market with U.S. markings.

grandluxe3.jpg


grandluxe7.jpg


This Colombo you posted is another example of a similar velour finish. The examples I have seen of this model were Italian market hats - this one is an XX also.

colombo1.jpg


colombo2.jpg


colombo3.jpg


These are beautiful felts but quite a different animal to the luxurious German/Austrian velours

peschel4.jpg

Gorgeous!
 

Daniele Tanto

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,220
Location
Verona - Italia
The use of the word "peluche" used as a playful way to define a finishing of felt sparked a small uproar.
I apologize to all participants in the thread
"Peluche" here is this ;)
2eptslz.jpg


For the sake of clarification
Velour (French word) is the equivalent of the italian word "velluto".
In our tradition of weavers velvet is of two types: smooth or curly
The finest velvet, for us, is in silk, now also, modern time in cotton

That said the velvet finish is well represented in the examples that have been posted.
The "velour" is, for me, lustrous and silky or curly, never hairy.

In the manufacture of hats they use many words to describe the felt (rabbit and hare) finished with hair shorter or longer. Each manufacturer had its definitions which then were in the final product: the hat
The lustre and smooth is for me "velluto"
2dw6fm1.jpg

or this, other great example
o5yo2q.jpg


Others finishing of the felt have another meaning for me
 

Jeremiah

A-List Customer
Messages
368
Location
Montana
Very nice.
When I was checking the inside of my two borsas for tags I noticed the inside of the crown had really long unfinished hairs.
Beautiful hats all around.
 

Tiki Tom

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,393
Location
Oahu, North Polynesia
I have a modern Borsalino that I purchased about 2 years back; Charcoal grey with a nice dark blue/turquois ribbon. I have to say, it (and my Panama) is probably my most frequently worn hat. The felt is kind of medium-to-light weight, but it holds its shape magnificently. It's got a white silk lining and a leather sweatband. The quality seems just fine. In fact, it still almost looks like new. Anyway, I quite like it.
 
Messages
15,077
Location
Buffalo, NY
Could you take a side view of the first one? I would like to have a closer look at the finish. It's really great!

I would be surprised if this is not a twin Borsalino Marque Grand Luxe to the one I posted yesterday. I remember the plum cast in the ribbon - much better shown in Tonio's photos than in mine. These are wonderful late 1950s velour felts (Daniele's mention of "velvet" is perfect) that must have been well received in the U.S. I have watched a number come up for sale that were sold through Marshall Field in Chicago. Here is a close-up of an example that I still own:

grandluxe.jpg
 

Jeremiah

A-List Customer
Messages
368
Location
Montana
I would be surprised if this is not a twin Borsalino Marque Grand Luxe to the one I posted yesterday. I remember the plum cast in the ribbon - much better shown in Tonio's photos than in mine. These are wonderful late 1950s velour felts (Daniele's mention of "velvet" is perfect) that must have been well received in the U.S. I have watched a number come up for sale that were sold through Marshall Field in Chicago. Here is a close-up of an example that I still own:

grandluxe.jpg
If this is a velour finish then I think my two are in fact velour finished as this looks just like mine. This is old news I am sure.
http://www.hatlife.com/hat_finishes1.php

Here.
image.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Messages
17,477
Location
Maryland
How were these finishes produced? Were they dry scratched and clipped or produced by a special pouncing process? If they were produced by special pouncing I wouldn't call them Velour.

I have a very strict stance that follows the article I posted above. The finest Velour was produced by manual hot wet brushing / clipped / polished + the finest Hare varieties. There was reason why the French imported such Austrian and German Velours (bodies and finished hats).

The way I see it is at the least the felt has to be dry scratch (via shark skin) + clip + polish to be considered Velour. Also felt content should be Hare but that is more of a quality issue.
 
Last edited:
Messages
17,477
Location
Maryland
The use of the word "peluche" used as a playful way to define a finishing of felt sparked a small uproar.
I apologize to all participants in the thread
"Peluche" here is this ;)
2eptslz.jpg


For the sake of clarification
Velour (French word) is the equivalent of the italian word "velluto".
In our tradition of weavers velvet is of two types: smooth or curly
The finest velvet, for us, is in silk, now also, modern time in cotton

That said the velvet finish is well represented in the examples that have been posted.
The "velour" is, for me, lustrous and silky or curly, never hairy.

In the manufacture of hats they use many words to describe the felt (rabbit and hare) finished with hair shorter or longer. Each manufacturer had its definitions which then were in the final product: the hat
The lustre and smooth is for me "velluto"
2dw6fm1.jpg

or this, other great example
o5yo2q.jpg


Others finishing of the felt have another meaning for me

Yes I tend (although the German and Austrian companies producing the highest quality Velours were in agreement with what would be considered Echter / Prima Velour) to agree with this and the article I posted points this out (in a negative way). In the time of the article Austrian and German Velour was considered the finest. The methods of producing such finishes required manual hot wet brushing (very labor intensive + high skilled) and the highest quality Hare varieties (see the article for more details). There is a reason why such Austrian and German Velours (felt bodies to finished hats) were exported throughout the world (even to Fashion King France). See the JHS Alpha Seal Velour and Superior Crystall Velour that I posted as examples.
 
Last edited:

ptjoe

Familiar Face
Messages
70
Help!!
I want to buy a new Borsalino, either the Como or the Classic, which is less expensive.
From what I've been reading on Borsalino it sounds like I should stay away from them?
Are they made of rabbit felt or wool?
Maybe my only alternative is a Stetson Chatham, sovereign quality.
My Stetson Temples are of Royal De Luxe quality and nice to the touch.
I so wanted a Borsalino but I am now very hesitant to spend the bucks.
Any ideas on the Como with the whip stitching on the brim, it looks nice, and it says qualita superiore.
Thanks for your input.
 

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