Alexander bootrigand bison jacket

[ton312]

Gents! Friday I got the news that my long awaited cordovan bootlegger was cut but won't be seen until after the first of the year. I ordered on 10/8 and was warned that they were having trouble sourcing hides. So I pulled the trigger on a similar style (3rd attempt!) and I think it's pretty damn good for the scratch. It's an AL now SB Brigand. Essentially a direct copy of the BL but with a slight nod to the back. I've long admired HD's bootlegger and have wanted that fit for myself. I think his jacket sets the bar on how this model should fit. Of my attempts to get something close while waiting this is the best yet. I've no skin in the AL vs Aero game but I've owned at least 10 Aero jackets and this is on par. I think the fit is good, perhaps a tad large. Sorry for the crummy pics. Doesn't do the Godzilla grain justice.

 

[Superfluous]

First and foremost, congratulations Ton on your new jacket.

Gents! Friday I got the news that my long awaited cordovan bootlegger was cut but won't be seen until after the first of the year. . . . . So I pulled the trigger on a similar style (3rd attempt!) and I think it's pretty damn good for the scratch. It's an AL now SB Brigand. Essentially a direct copy of the BL but with a slight nod to the back.

 

[GraceNote13]

Congrats, looks great.

 

[handymike]

nice pre-Christmas present!

 

[dan_t]

Looks fantastic!

 

[Bunyip]

Are you still waiting on the Bootlegger or have you canned it?

 

[Capesofwrath]

First and foremost, congratulations Ton on your new jacket.

Not much point not saying it then is there?

 

[Capesofwrath]

Looks nice and the fit is fine. As you will know it will mould to you better when it breaks in. This from someone who has owned Aero jackets for decades and has a couple of ALs. So like you is not partisan.

 

[ton312]

Are you still waiting on the Bootlegger or have you canned it?

Not canned!

 

[ton312]

First and foremost, congratulations Ton on your new jacket.

 

[Superfluous]

^ Ton, your post makes no sense, is inaccurate, and now compels me to explain.

You candidly acknowledged that your new Simmons Bilt (aka Alexander Leather) jacket is "[e]ssentially a direct copy of the BL" (Aero's Bootlegger jacket). As you apparently know, many have accused SB/AL of blatantly copying Aero's designs. SB/AL has denied the accusation. Your blunt acknowledgement that the precise jacket you purchased from SB/AL is "a direct copy" of an Aero design was both surprising and a reminder of the underlying dispute. Respectfully, your apathetic disregard for SB/AL's apparent misappropriation of Aero's design, as evidenced by your willingness to purchase the known "direct copy" and thereby reward SB/AL's apparent misappropriation of Aero's design, is disappointing. Some here -- me included -- will never do business with SB/AL based on the precise conduct that you openly acknowledge. Some people here will never reward SB/AL's conduct with their hard earned money. You obviously feel differently. That is your prerogative.

I initially elected not to make a post of this nature and, instead, simply noted that "what's left unsaid, says it all." In other words, I was willing to leave it "unsaid" and not openly take exception with your disregard and willingness to purchase a known "direct copy" from SB/AL. I also expressly congratulated you on your new jacket (even though your purchase of a known "direct copy" offends me). Unfortunately, you elected to inaccurately accuse me of being "butthurt" and thereby force me to explain myself. So be it. No "butthurt" here. I have no skin in the Aero/SB dispute. I am simply a third party observer with an opinion regarding the ethics of the underlying circumstances.

I hope you enjoy your new jacket.

 

[ProteinNerd]

^ Ton, your post makes no sense, is inaccurate, and now compels me to explain.

.

Without trying to dredge up this whole issue again, its more than a little hypercritical this bootlegger copy is a travesty against ethics, yet Aero is more than happy to produce Board Racers that are direct Buco J100 clones even including a copy of the Buco label. Is that not essentially the same thing? We also know for a fact that the new premier range was created when Ken dissected an old garment and made the pattern from that....

A lot of our favourite designs, from a range of makers, are exact copies of vintage patterns, most where an original is taken apart and the panels traced.

I'm not saying its right or wrong, there is just a whole lot of murk in these waters. I think everyone has the right to choose what feels right for them.

Me, I doubt I'll ever buy from SB because of the way it was set up but I'm not going to force my views on, or try to shame someone who does.

Nice jacket BTW.

 

[handymike]

I really like this Thedi one too:

The collar shape is different and the cording so sweet!

 

[ton312]

^ Ton, your post makes no sense, is inaccurate, and now compels me to explain.

You candidly acknowledged that your new Simmons Bilt (aka Alexander Leather) jacket is "[e]ssentially a direct copy of the BL" (Aero's Bootlegger jacket). As you apparently know, many have accused SB/AL of blatantly copying Aero's designs. SB/AL has denied the accusation. Your blunt acknowledgement that the precise jacket you purchased from SB/AL is "a direct copy" of an Aero design was both surprising and a reminder of the underlying dispute. Respectfully, your apathetic disregard for SB/AL's apparent misappropriation of Aero's design, as evidenced by your willingness to purchase the known "direct copy" and thereby reward SB/AL's apparent misappropriation of Aero's design, is disappointing. Some here -- me included -- will never do business with SB/AL based on the precise conduct that you openly acknowledge. Some people here will never reward SB/AL's conduct with their hard earned money. You obviously feel differently. That is your prerogative.

I initially elected not to make a post of this nature and, instead, simply noted that "what's left unsaid, says it all." In other words, I was willing to leave it "unsaid" and not openly take exception with your disregard and willingness to purchase a known "direct copy" from SB/AL. I also expressly congratulated you on your new jacket (even though your purchase of a known "direct copy" offends me). Unfortunately, you elected to inaccurately accuse me of being "butthurt" and thereby force me to explain myself. So be it. No "butthurt" here. I have no skin in the Aero/SB dispute. I am simply a third party observer with an opinion regarding the ethics of the underlying circumstances.

I hope you enjoy your new jacket.

Perhaps I misunderstood your intent there. I do see your point but I guess they way I see it, just about every jacket I own is a copy of some other design. My Vanson jacket could be considered a rip off of Schott's original design and the list goes on and on...as PN stated above. Is it not possible to love the product from both vendors? This is my first from Simmons Bilt. I like it. I've got an Aero on the way. I'm sure I'll like it just as much. I understand there is history between these two and some people need to choose a side. I don't feel that way. How lucky we are to have such a delightful first world problem.

 

[Superfluous]

Without trying to dredge up this whole issue again, its more than a little hypercritical this bootlegger copy is a travesty against ethics, yet Aero is more than happy to produce Board Racers that are direct Buco J100 clones even including a copy of the Buco label. Is that not essentially the same thing? We also know for a fact that the new premier range was created when Ken dissected an old garment and made the pattern from that....

A lot of our favourite designs, from a range of makers, are exact copies of vintage patterns, most where an original is taken apart and the panels traced.

I'm not saying its right or wrong, there is just a whole lot of murk in these waters. I think everyone has the right to choose what feels right for them.

As has been discussed here several times, the issues are entirely different. Buco – and many of the other original brands that created certain designs that we continue to exalt – ceased doing business many years ago, and no longer sell the designs they created. Therefore, any intellectual property rights these defunct companies may have acquired have lapsed and/or been abandoned. Moreover, anyone replicating one of these vintage designs is not competing against the originator of the design, and misappropriating the design to steal business from the originator (who invested its time and money to create the design).

Replicating a vintage design created by a company that is no longer in business is vastly different from “directly copying” the design of a jacket currently offered for sale by the originator/creator of the design. Aero invested its time and money to create the Bootlegger design, and Aero is still selling this jacket that it created. If SB/AL “directly copies” Aero’s Bootlegger design, they are able to offer the same jacket without investing the time and money to create the design, and they are able to compete against the originator using the misappropriated design and steal business from the originator. The situation here is exponentially more egregious because one of the founders of SB/AL was previously the managing director of Aero, and there is reason to believe that he brought the Aero designs with him when he founded SB/AL. Had SB/AL created the designs without the involvement of Aero’s former managing director, one might be able to ascribe certain design similarities to the inevitable/coincidental result of vintage inspiration. However, given that SB/AL created these designs with the direct assistance of the former Aero managing director, and there is reason to believe that the former managing director brought the Aero designs with him to SB/AL, and current SB/AL customers candidly acknowledge that the SB/AL jacked is a “direct copy” of the Aero design, SB/AL is not entitled to any benefit of the doubt. Under these circumstances, the analogy to the vintage designs of long defunct companies is inapposite.

Me, I doubt I'll ever buy from SB because of the way it was set up but I'm not going to force my views on, or try to shame someone who does.

I had no intention of shaming Ton. I bit my tongue until he posted that I am "butthurt" and thereby compelled my explanation. There have been several TFL threads about newly acquired SB/AL jackets and I said nothing. Ton's post was somewhat unique because he acknowledged that his new SB/AL jacket was a "direct copy" of an Aero design. Nevertheless, I did not share my ethical perspective until I was accused of being "butthurt."

 

[Superfluous]

Perhaps I misunderstood your intent there. I do see your point but I guess they way I see it, just about every jacket I own is a copy of some other design. My Vanson jacket could be considered a rip off of Schott's original design and the list goes on and on...as PN stated above. Is it not possible to love the product from both vendors? This is my first from Simmons Bilt. I like it. I've got an Aero on the way. I'm sure I'll like it just as much. I understand there is history between these two and some people need to choose a side. I don't feel that way. How lucky we are to have such a delightful first world problem.

Cheers Ton. Enjoy your new SB/AL jacket and your forthcoming Aero jacket. You are certainly fortunate to be able to own both jackets. Moreover, you are absolutely right that we need to keep such "first world problems" in perspective.

 

[tropicalbob]

Handymike, that Thedi is absolutely beautiful! Any idea what it goes for?

 

[handymike]

No, but I think his prices are in the ballpark of the usual guys

 

[tropicalbob]

There are some very intriguing items on their various sites but not a clue as to prices. Seems odd.

 

[ton312]

Cheers Ton. Enjoy your new SB/AL jacket and your forthcoming Aero jacket. You are certainly fortunate to be able to own both jackets. Moreover, you are absolutely right that we need to keep such "first world problems" in perspective.

Thanks. You've made some good points and ones that I really hadn't thought of before. Though I've been a member here for some time I've only recently started using the site and I certainly don't want to make enemies or come off like an a$$hole. Just want to share my love for these beautiful things with a like minded community!