AL - Simmons Bilt!

[Superfluous]

That wouldn't fly. Same company, jut a different name... in any case, it would be very difficult to move assets around in a way that wasn't traceable and ultimately recoverable - if, indeed, the company felt any need to try and do that. The law takes a dim view of that sort of thing, so I'd like to think it's not relevant here. Really, I think it's just an attempt to try and rebrand and break away from the negative publicity of the Will Lauder connection; whether it will stick is another matter. They do seem to be going about it in a very half-cocked and ill-thought out manner.

I agree. A mere name change is insufficient to escape liability incurred by the same company operating under the original name.

In the US, it is not uncommon for a company burdened by debt to illegitimately sell all of its assets to a new company (often with ownership ties or other relationships to the original company), so that the new company can attempt to carry on the business without the burdensome debt. There are procedures for challenging these illegitimate transactions, such that the creditors of the original company can often enforce their claims against the new company.

I think you guys are missing the plan here. If AL/SB act sorta stupid, they can claim they got duped by WL, et al. This is the ignorance defense. They're gonna excel here...

:eusa_clap

 

[Tefouane]

Honestly, if I pay a good price for a good product I don't care about the history of the company.

 

[Jägernaut]

Honestly, I'd rather my money go to good people for a good product. It's like buying oranges from Stalin, or buying them from anyone else.

 

[Fanch]

I think you guys are missing the plan here. If AL/SB act sorta stupid, they can claim they got duped by WL, et al. This is the ignorance defense. They're gonna excel here...

Butte, I dunno. Thus far I haven't seen them excel at anything here other than to say the wrong thing at every turn. With months and months to prepare for this possible outcome, it boggles the imagination that they couldn't come up with a better plan for damage control.

 

[ButteMT61]

Honestly, if I pay a good price for a good product I don't care about the history of the company.

I do. 100%

Honestly, I'd rather my money go to good people for a good product. It's like buying oranges from Stalin, or buying them from anyone else.

Word.

Butte, I dunno. Thus far I haven't seen them excel at anything here other than to say the wrong thing at every turn. With months and months to prepare for this possible outcome, it boggles the imagination that they couldn't come up with a better plan for damage control.

I'm tellin' you. It's the stupid defense...

 

[Sloan1874]

Honestly, I'd rather my money go to good people for a good product. It's like buying oranges from Stalin, or buying them from anyone else.

Yep, I've always thought it was one of the cardinal Lounge principles.

 

[Superfluous]

Honestly, if I pay a good price for a good product I don't care about the history of the company.

Some people care about the character and integrity of the people they do business with.

 

[Tefouane]

For sure but some of AL workers (ex Aero one) are doing their best for making nice products and are not reponsable of some leader's attitude. I have Aero and AL jackets and I will certainly buy again by the both companies....

 

[Mickey Bowtie]

I have an AL Halfbelt and while I can not fault it for quality and workmanship, the findings of the trial left a bad aftertaste. It is still a very nice jacket, but I wonder if I would buy it now, knowing what I know now.

 

[ButteMT61]

For sure but some of AL workers (ex Aero one) are doing their best for making nice products and are not reponsable of some leader's attitude. I have Aero and AL jackets and I will certainly buy again by the both companies....

I think there's more questions than answers as to who left Aero, knowing what was going on.
For me, I'd buy Aero any day of the week - they've proven themselves throughout one hell of a ***tstorm and did right by everyone involved. Ex-employees seemed to have abandoned them and took a chance with WL/AL/SB. I don't wish them ill, but I don't want anything made by them either...

 

[Superfluous]

For sure but some of AL workers (ex Aero one) are doing their best for making nice products and are not reponable of some leader's attitude.

The issue here is not the integrity of the AL workers, but rather, the integrity of their "leaders." I personally find AL's leadership to be woefully lacking in integrity; and, on that basis alone, I will never do business with AL.

 

[Tefouane]

But in this case you condamn employees for things they don't have done...

 

[Tefouane]

Certainly with good promesses...

 

[Superfluous]

But in this case you condamn employees for things they don't have done...

Incorrect.

They chose to go over to AL.

Correct.

Certainly with good promesses...

I have no idea.

Again, I am not condemning AL's employees. Rather, I am condemning AL's management.

 

[Sloan1874]

Actually, there were a good number who knew that Will was intent on setting up AL well in advance but chose not to tell Ken and Lydia, and among those who went to AL were those, Edith Yardley, who got up and signed the petition to stop Ken and Lydia from entering their own factory. So, y'know, not nice people. And let's not get on to Johnny Minto...

 

[Worf]

I've seen and read enough and feel I'm informed enough to make my feelings known.

1. I own jackets from both companies, but truth be told only one from AL
2. I've received great product from both companies.
3. I have a semi-personal relationship with the Calder's as they've written me off-forum from time to time about jackets and things other than leather.
4. I have no personal relationship with anyone at AL.

Would I buy from AL again? Not right now, not after having read the trial narrative. I have and will continue to buy from Vanson, Aero and others as time, money and interest permit. Sloane has done us all a great service and I thank him and others who've tried to get to the bottom of this whole mess. Having spent a lifetime on the "outside" looking in I've a keen hunger for justice. I feel justice has been done to a degree. I don't know who all knew what, when and what they did in this... however I personally could not in all good conscience voluntarily give honest money to bad people. If that means that innocent staffers at AL suffer... it cannot be helped. As for "putting this all behind us" that's for every individual to decide for themselves. I don't think it'll end as long as AL/SB stays in business as currently constituted there's too much bad blood and ill will on all sides. I'd like folks to agree or politely "agree to disagree" but that's not always gonna happen in real life. So let's do the next best thing we can do.... continue to talk it out as civilly and intelligently as possible.

Worf

 

[Superfluous]

^ This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jacketjunkie]

Some people care about the character and integrity of the people they do business with.

Exactly. That's why I would also consider twice before buying from Lost Worlds and why I probably won't buy an AL jacket in foreseeable future. Shame actually, their Motorrad Jacke design (is it theirs? at least I haven't seen any comparable Aero jacket) caught my eye.. now I'll probably have Alan do me something comparable.

As for the Ex-Aero-now-Al and other AL employees.. I do not wish them any bad, but I do not feel responsible for them and they won't affect my decision whether or not to buy an AL product. The AL management is responsible for them, as is any companies management for its employees.. it will be on them if any of their employees gets in a struggle because of their actions.

 

[Sloan1874]

The Motorrad Jacke is based on a German motorcycle jacket that was gifted to Aero by John Lever. Ken's been working on a more faithful, accurate re-design of it - there are pics of the test version on the Lounge, search under Kradjacke - which should appear at some point soon.

 

[Drifterproductions]

Are you kidding me? The Aeromarine is not an original Design by Aero? I have true vintage archives and that design was around far before Aero or Calder ever existed.