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[jeffgarf]

Working on a Borsalino refurb, this was attached to the front of the hat under the hatband, haven’t encountered anything like this before. I assume some kind of a sizing spacer?

Looks like the venting used in Borsalinos. I believe there is discussion on this in the Brotherhood thread.

 

[Rmccamey]

And that was during a time before the whole notion of planned obsolescence. Things wore out due to age and use, but they weren't designed with that in mind as are so many products today.

Another thing unrelated to felt is ribbon. Ask any hat maker if modern ribbon is as good as vintage. Synthetic fibers just react differently, which is why vintage grosgrain is highly sought after.

Regarding the mass produced/factory made thing, at its heyday the Stetson factory is better thought of as a vertically integrated industrial park. Or as the 1901 catalog says: "the plant in reality is nine distinct factories." They processed the fur and produced the bodies, they made the ribbon, the sweatbands, the hat blocks and the hat boxes.

This is not the way Hatco operates today, to say the least.

Mass production was not originally about cutting corners in a race to the bottom on quality and price. Some of the biggest benefits of mass production were consistency and efficiency. Also revealed in the process is that a worker doing the same part of a process repeatedly will consistently produce better results than every person doing the entire process. So for a time quality actually increased with mass production. Add to that increased market share allowed these factories to keep and hire the best of the best. There is a reason why Borsalino produced extremely high quality hats for several decades. And why standardization across brands that fell in line with HCA produced very high quality. Details like the Cavanagh edge, which definitely flew in the face of cost cutting measures would not have been financially feasible without the capital behind mass production. It really wasn’t until the late 50s and really into the 60s through 70s when we start seeing significant declines and quality. The biggest factor at play was a decline in the popularity of hats Probably compounded by an uptick in inflation. Mass production factories designed to be super efficient with a growing or at least consistent market do not fair well in a declining market and corners had quickly to attempt to stay afloat. What took nearly a century to reach its peak collapsed in really less than a decade.

Today it is much different mass production is largely about a race to the bottom on price and quality of course right along with it. Which opened the door for cottage industry players to step in to the game and fill the quality void.

 

[Judgmentalist]

If you sell hats online, where do you get appropriately sized boxes? What size do you generally prefer - assume a fairly standard fedora - not a stingy brim, not a monster.

 

[jeffgarf]

If you sell hats online, where do you get appropriately sized boxes? What size do you generally prefer - assume a fairly standard fedora - not a stingy brim, not a monster.

Uline 14x14x6

 

[HatsBySam]

I have 16 x 16 x 8 for most hats and 18 x 18 x 8 for westerns. Probably a bit oversized, but gives me plenty of depth for different brim shapes. Grainger has well made boxes at good prices as well.

 

[dkstott]

In case no one has seen this
Another hat store out of business

 

[jeffgarf]

In case no one has seen this
Another hat store out of business

DelMonico Hatter Closes After 118 Years - New Haven Independent https://share.google/qzChnJXpQpHgYVPEE

All may not yet be lost.

 

[dkstott]

DelMonico Hatter Closes After 118 Years - New Haven Independent https://share.google/qzChnJXpQpHgYVPEE

All may not yet be lost.

Their website hadn't been active for products or ordering anything in almost a year. Ben told me that he was " redesigning it"

There wasn't anything new in the inventory when I there a little more than 2 month's ago..

Any sales promotion were for in store or via phone orders only.

 

[belfastboy]

And that was during a time before the whole notion of planned obsolescence. Things wore out due to age and use, but they weren't designed with that in mind as are so many products today.

My parents moved into their first and last house in 1950. They bought appliances, not expensive ones, but brand names. When my mom passed away in 2012 she was still using the same stove/oven. She replaced the fridge in the early 2000's even though it still worked because the door gasket had rotted and we could not source a replacement. Oh, and the same pots and pans bought in 1950.

 

[belfastboy]

My parents moved into their first and last house in 1950. They bought appliances, not expensive ones, but brand names. When my mom passed away in 2012 she was still using the same stove/oven. She replaced the fridge in the early 2000's even though it still worked because the door gasket had rotted and we could not source a replacement. Oh, and the same pots and pans bought in 1950.

I bought a stove at Sears, a Kenmore, $700. It lasted me just 5 years before the main computer bit broke. $550 to replace it.....just the computer chip thing. I tossed it and upgraded to a induction cooktop that is thankfully still working well. But, almost a deal breaker ....I had to buy new pots and pans and my 45 year old Lagostina pots would not work on the induction stove top. 45 years and they were still as good as new working wise. But, I do have my 3 cast iron fry pans that predate my marriage. I have a prenup agreement with my wife....she gets the house but I get to keep my beloved 60 year old cast iron pans...they are older as I got them used.....I have had them for 60 years.

 

[Frunobulax]

Amana refrigideezer bought when I moved into the house 34 years ago. Doesn’t look the best, but works like a champ.

Belgique cookware I bought before I got the house. Still use it daily.

My cast iron was all bought new about the same time and will outlive me.

I even have a Krups coffee grinder I bought at least 40 years ago. Use it daily.

Got the wife about 40 years ago (married 34 years). A little worse for wear, but then so am I. I think she'll go the distance.

 

[belfastboy]

Amana refrigideezer bought when I moved into the house 34 years ago. Doesn’t look the best, but works like a champ.

Belgique cookware I bought before I got the house. Still use it daily.

My cast iron was all bought new about the same time and will outlive me.

I even have a Krups coffee grinder I bought at least 40 years ago. Use it daily.

Got the wife about 40 years ago (married 34 years). A little worse for wear, but then so am I. I think she'll go the distance.

Married my lady 50 years ago.....she is in waaaay better shape than I!! AND she looks waaay better in a hat than I

 

[Frunobulax]

Married my lady 50 years ago.....she is in waaaay better shape than I!! AND she looks waaay better in a hat than I

Ain't that the truth.

 

[Judgmentalist]

Ain't that the truth.

Every damn hat. It’s insulting lol

 

[belfastboy]

Every damn hat. It’s insulting lol

Yeh, I woulda expected a brother to stick up for me, at least a bit.

 

[Frunobulax]

Yeh, I woulda expected a brother to stick up for me, at least a bit.

Sorry, I was commisserating.

 

[Sydluxer]

Hey guys,

Just wearing hats occasionally. Usually for outdoor activities like fishing, hiking, hunting.

I’d like to get a new rugged/weatherproof safari style hat, like the Hoggs of Five Caledonia https://www.hoggs.co.uk/accessories/headwear/caledonia-waxed-hat
Or the Barbour Dawson, Stetson Traveller. Just better - if it exists. One that combines craftsmanship, durability, functionality and style.

I’m not really aware of one, but thought this is a good place to start.

Don’t know much about hats to be honest (got a couple old safari hats and an Akubra Cattleman).

Here a pic with my oldest hat I’m usually wearing for fishing. My dad brought it as a gift from a trip to Australia 25 years or so ago.

Thankful for any suggestions. Cheers guys!

 

[blewnote]

Alrighty folks, I'm comfortable using gas on my felts, but I have more cleaning questions.

I do have one more question about using gas. Has anyone heated it up and do you notice an improvement in its efficacy? Ermatinger says to use a tub of boiling water (after removal from the heat source) and to put a container of gas in this to heat it up for use.

If gas doesn't get a stain out on your felt hat, have any of y'all tried any of the other methods mentioned in the Ermatinger book with any success?

I know Dr. Max wrote once about using highly diluted ammonia to clean a ribbon. Ammonia is mentioned in the Ermatinger book for milk, egg, and blood stains. But I'm curious if anyone else has tried it on ribbons or felts and on what types of stains and whether they've had any success.

For ink, dye, or rust Ermatinger recommends either cyanide of potassium (which I don't think I can get and seems highly toxic) or oxalic acid crystals, which seem much easier to procure (and perhaps much safer). Has anyone used either of these methods to clean something that didn't come out with gas?

Lastly, what have people tried and recommend for cleaning panama hats?

Ermatinger recommends using oxalic acid mixed with potassium bioxalate and lead acetate. I'm not a chemist so all that sounds a bit more than I can manage, but maybe someone else has done it and it's fine? Or you have another method that is easier for a layman?

 

[Judgmentalist]

If you sell hats online, where do you get appropriately sized boxes? What size do you generally prefer - assume a fairly standard fedora - not a stingy brim, not a monster.

Got the box thing sorted, thanks to all - one more question - or maybe two - along these lines.

1.) What do you like for/where do you source packing material?

I bought what I thought was a good tape dispenser (previously I had been using these little rolls from like Dollar General) and I still hate it.

2.) Do you have a tape dispenser you like?

 

[belfastboy]

Alrighty folks, I'm comfortable using gas on my felts, but I have more cleaning questions.

I do have one more question about using gas. Has anyone heated it up and do you notice an improvement in its efficacy? Ermatinger says to use a tub of boiling water (after removal from the heat source) and to put a container of gas in this to heat it up for use.

If gas doesn't get a stain out on your felt hat, have any of y'all tried any of the other methods mentioned in the Ermatinger book with any success?

I know Dr. Max wrote once about using highly diluted ammonia to clean a ribbon. Ammonia is mentioned in the Ermatinger book for milk, egg, and blood stains. But I'm curious if anyone else has tried it on ribbons or felts and on what types of stains and whether they've had any success.

For ink, dye, or rust Ermatinger recommends either cyanide of potassium (which I don't think I can get and seems highly toxic) or oxalic acid crystals, which seem much easier to procure (and perhaps much safer). Has anyone used either of these methods to clean something that didn't come out with gas?

Lastly, what have people tried and recommend for cleaning panama hats?

Ermatinger recommends using oxalic acid mixed with potassium bioxalate and lead acetate. I'm not a chemist so all that sounds a bit more than I can manage, but maybe someone else has done it and it's fine? Or you have another method that is easier for a layman?

I trust you are using white gas or naptha. Naptha is used as it is the purest hydrocarbon you can buy. Kerosene has additives. I have never bothered to fully clean a panama straw....one day maybe. But I have used denatured alcohol as a spot remover on the straws. Ribbon I don't bother to try to clean ribbon with bad staining.as I have a huge stock of it.....I toss it. But if it is lightly soiled I will wash in tepid water using my wife's lingerie soap. Too hot water and it can shrink which is bad......I know this because........
The best teacher in most things hatting is trial and error. Have some fun with this. In the beginning I learn to make hats by purchasing beaters off Ebay. Tearing them down to ghe bare felt, cleaning them, and putting them back together. Ruining felts/hats was all part of the bargain. Like Edison I learned a lot of ways how NOT to do things.