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[Adman256]

One sec… ok I’m ready
View attachment 810517 Well said. Your a genius!

 

[Frunobulax]

What has gone unsaid is it's not just felt quality. It's also the overall quality of workmanship. I've seen many on here decry the quality of mass produced hats. While that may be true for most contemporary hat makers, it wasn't always the case.

There was a time when Stetson, Dobbs, Mallory, and even smaller hatters turned out fedoras of high quality and master workmanship on a regular basis. By the millions in the case of the larger companies and the thousands by others. They employed master finishers who had their craft down to a science. Everything was better.

I love my customs, but even they don't have the details something like this Stetson Imperial quality of Alan's has.

Post in thread 'What Hat Are You Wearing Today ?' https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/what-hat-are-you-wearing-today.94860/post-3271024

That's a stunning late 30s early 40s mass produced hat. You just can't get that today.

 

[Sydluxer]

Hi guys,

I'm new here. Is there some kind of introduction thread? Haven't fouind one yet...maybe I'm blind.

Cheers!

 

[jeffgarf]

Hi guys,

I'm new here. Is there some kind of introduction thread? Haven't fouind one yet...maybe I'm blind.

Cheers!

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/new-member-to-the-hat-forum.87263/

 

[Sydluxer]

@jeffgarf thank you!

 

[belfastboy]

Umm…. Send me the contact info lol

It was about 14 years ago.

What has gone unsaid is it's not just felt quality. It's also the overall quality of workmanship. I've seen many on here decry the quality of mass produced hats. While that may be true for most contemporary hat makers, it wasn't always the case.

There was a time when Stetson, Dobbs, Mallory, and even smaller hatters turned out fedoras of high quality and master workmanship on a regular basis. By the millions in the case of the larger companies and the thousands by others. They employed master finishers who had their craft down to a science. Everything was better.

I love my customs, but even they don't have the details something like this Stetson Imperial quality of Alan's has.

Post in thread 'What Hat Are You Wearing Today ?' https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/what-hat-are-you-wearing-today.94860/post-3271024

That's a stunning late 30s early 40s mass produced hat. You just can't get that today.

I have restored Borsalino hats from the 1930's and 1940's. They were very much mass produced hats. But the level of artistry/craftmanship on the sewing was staggeringly good. I could live 3 lifetimes as a hatter and not approach that level of beauty in my stitching. Also, the workers who curled the brims, pencil and D'Orsay, were the top of the food chain in production. They were often the highest paid workers on the line. That is pretty much all they did was curl brims so they became very very good at it. Back in that day mass produced was not the pejorative that it is today.

 

[jeffgarf]

@jeffgarf thank you!

You're welcome and welcome in.

 

[Judgmentalist]

Hi guys,

I'm new here. Is there some kind of introduction thread? Haven't fouind one yet...maybe I'm blind.

Cheers!

Don’t think so - this works welcome aboard

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

I wonder if this is the consensus of the forum? Say, compared to Optimo or Gannon or Fawcett or Penman and other top custom makers, are the hats of yesteryear truly vastly superior?

I'll play devil's advocate (and you'll find this same argument on the other threads as well, but it's worth repeating):

I spent a number of years collecting vintage hats. I absolutely love them. But I rarely wear them anymore.

I like to wear a hat every day, all day, take it off when I sleep and put it back on the next day. I work hard in my hats, and I play hard in them, too. I did this to a couple of vintage hats that I loved and I destroyed them. Now I either wear modern hats or bespoke hats - ones that I can actually replace. But I hardly wear my vintage lids because I want them to survive.

Meanwhile my Akubras and bespokes become saltier and full of character and I am loving them more and more. And once they get degraded far enough, I retire them and start again with new ones.

My conclusion: the only thing about any clothing item that makes it superior is if you love wearing it.

 

[Frunobulax]

I'll play devil's advocate (and you'll find this same argument on the other threads as well, but it's worth repeating):

I spent a number of years collecting vintage hats. I absolutely love them. But I rarely wear them anymore.

I like to wear a hat every day, all day, take it off when I sleep and put it back on the next day. I work hard in my hats, and I play hard in them, too. I did this to a couple of vintage hats that I loved and I destroyed them. Now I either wear modern hats or bespoke hats - ones that I can actually replace. But I hardly wear my vintage lids because I want them to survive.

Meanwhile my Akubras and bespokes become saltier and full of character and I am loving them more and more. And once they get degraded far enough, I retire them and start again with new ones.

My conclusion: the only thing about any clothing item that makes it superior is if you love wearing it.

And that, my friends, is why you need a couple hundred vintage hats. Gotta spread out the wear as widely as possible.

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

And that, my friends, is why you need a couple hundred vintage hats. Gotta spread out the wear as widely as possible.

I'm still working on that couple of hundred! Waiting now on a 1940s Royal Deluxe Stetson. I also just added my first Akubra Squatter to the collection.

To be fair, I can only keep about three hats with me on the truck at a time: usually I go with one Akubra, one bespoke and one vintage. I stay out for 6-8 weeks before coming home for a week and by far the Akubras get the most wear. The vintage get the least. I trade them out for a new team when I get home.

So my experience is a bit unique.

 

[EL-Jimenez74]

I only started down this road a few months ago and do not have a lot of knowledge or experience. What I can say is that any hat I have purchased or will purchase is meant to be worn. If that means that unfortunately a vintage hat doesn’t last me more than a couple of years, so be it. I don’t believe in having any “safe queens”. Enjoy your hats out in the world, where everyone else can appreciate them too.

 

[jeffgarf]

It was about 14 years ago.

I have restored Borsalino hats from the 1930's and 1940's. They were very much mass produced hats. But the level of artistry/craftmanship on the sewing was staggeringly good. I could live 3 lifetimes as a hatter and not approach that level of beauty in my stitching. Also, the workers who curled the brims, pencil and D'Orsay, were the top of the food chain in production. They were often the highest paid workers on the line. That is pretty much all they did was curl brims so they became very very good at it. Back in that day mass produced was not the pejorative that it is today.

And as if on cue, @alanfgag uncorks a beauty of a 75 y.o. western Borsalino with a curled brim. Hopefully he posts here on the Lounge, as well (hint, hint).

 

[Frunobulax]

I'm still working on that couple of hundred! Waiting now on a 1940s Royal Deluxe Stetson. I also just added my first Akubra Squatter to the collection.

To be fair, I can only keep about three hats with me on the truck at a time: usually I go with one Akubra, one bespoke and one vintage. I stay out for 6-8 weeks before coming home for a week and by far the Akubras get the most wear. The vintage get the least. I trade them out for a new team when I get home.

So my experience is a bit unique.

I would imagine you can be pretty rough on your hats.

I only started down this road a few months ago and do not have a lot of knowledge or experience. What I can say is that any hat I have purchased or will purchase is meant to be worn. If that means that unfortunately a vintage hat doesn’t last me more than a couple of years, so be it. I don’t believe in having any “safe queens”. Enjoy your hats out in the world, where everyone else can appreciate them too.

Depends. I have a few prized posessions that, while I wear them, don't get pulled out as often as others.

 

[belfastboy]

And as if on cue, @alanfgag uncorks a beauty of a 75 y.o. western Borsalino with a curled brim. Hopefully he posts here on the Lounge, as well (hint, hint).

I should dig out mine. It is a beater, about 50 years old but very similar.

 

[jlee562]

Another thing unrelated to felt is ribbon. Ask any hat maker if modern ribbon is as good as vintage. Synthetic fibers just react differently, which is why vintage grosgrain is highly sought after.

Regarding the mass produced/factory made thing, at its heyday the Stetson factory is better thought of as a vertically integrated industrial park. Or as the 1901 catalog says: "the plant in reality is nine distinct factories." They processed the fur and produced the bodies, they made the ribbon, the sweatbands, the hat blocks and the hat boxes.

This is not the way Hatco operates today, to say the least.

 

[EL-Jimenez74]

And as if on cue, @alanfgag uncorks a beauty of a 75 y.o. western Borsalino with a curled brim. Hopefully he posts here on the Lounge, as well (hint, hint).

That hat is absolutely beautiful!!

 

[Blare]

Mass production was not originally about cutting corners in a race to the bottom on quality and price. Some of the biggest benefits of mass production were consistency and efficiency. Also revealed in the process is that a worker doing the same part of a process repeatedly will consistently produce better results than every person doing the entire process. So for a time quality actually increased with mass production. Add to that increased market share allowed these factories to keep and hire the best of the best. There is a reason why Borsalino produced extremely high quality hats for several decades. And why standardization across brands that fell in line with HCA produced very high quality. Details like the Cavanagh edge, which definitely flew in the face of cost cutting measures would not have been financially feasible without the capital behind mass production. It really wasn’t until the late 50s and really into the 60s through 70s when we start seeing significant declines and quality. The biggest factor at play was a decline in the popularity of hats Probably compounded by an uptick in inflation. Mass production factories designed to be super efficient with a growing or at least consistent market do not fair well in a declining market and corners had quickly to attempt to stay afloat. What took nearly a century to reach its peak collapsed in really less than a decade.

Today it is much different mass production is largely about a race to the bottom on price and quality of course right along with it. Which opened the door for cottage industry players to step in to the game and fill the quality void.

 

[belfastboy]

And that, my friends, is why you need a couple hundred vintage hats. Gotta spread out the wear as widely as possible.

Yep, that is my solution.

 

[HatsBySam]

Working on a Borsalino refurb, this was attached to the front of the hat under the hatband, haven’t encountered anything like this before. I assume some kind of a sizing spacer?