Judgmentalist
One Too Many
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What do you think Sam? Am I gonna destroy this hat?
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- Thread starter Rundquist
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HatsBySam
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 236
Heck no, some brushing, steam and reshaping may be all it needs. Stetson 3x is incredible, one of my favorite felts.
Judgmentalist
One Too Many
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It seems pretty dirty to me. Maybe the flash on my camera washed it out too much.
HatsBySam
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 236
If the sweatband is in good shape and well attached. Pull the liner and try a gas bath (or a sink sprayer to the outside, lol, I won’t tell anyone. It’s no different then wearing it in the rain)
For real. If the sweatband is in decent shape a gas bath won't hurt it a bit. I recently got a large enamel washing pan to just do minor cleaning with gas, that's the first suggestion in the Ermatinger book, just to hit it with a brush dipped in gasoline and see what you can get out before bathing the whole thing. But if you pull the liner you can't really hurt the rest of the hat (and I think Bob Hufford may even douse them without removing the liner, maybe he can chime in about that).
Judgmentalist
One Too Many
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I’m having a bit of off-cycle whiskey haze at the moment but Ermatinger book is pulling some strings. Hopefully I will remember to find this tomorrow.
Nice one! I couldn't say for sure what the numbers on that tag represent, as we can't see the whole number and we don't know what that store's inventorying system was. It looks mainly like a price tag to me, with the lot number the hat came from, perhaps it's the date it was brought into the store inventory, perhaps it's just a stock number to keep track of what hat they were going to sell. All that said, I would be inclined to believe it's a hat from 1952 or earlier.
But I'm curious if you can say why. What I keep trying to get you to do is look at the tells the hat has for dating:
The long oval tags are hard to use for dating because they don't seem to follow the path outlined in the thread on how to date Stetsons by size tag. So in this case that's no good.
What does the liner tell you? It's not just fabric, there's a material over it. What is that material? When did Stetson use that in its hats?
What does the inventory tag tell you? How old are the hats other loungers have posted that have that style inventory tag?
jeffgarf
One Too Many
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- 1,726
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- Jerusalem, Israel
I also leave the liner in during the bath. It never hurt a thing.
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- 15,852
I have. Typically no issues other than sometimes the flushed dirt ends up between the liner and a plastic liner tip at the edges. If only I wasn’t so lazy and could actually sew.
Judgmentalist
One Too Many
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@blewnote is going to make me ****** vegetables. Okay fine. Today is the day. Or rather tomorrow is the day. I will do the work on this tomorrow and try to defend my position.
thank you sir, for forcing me out of my comfort zone lol. So the onion skin liner, I think, was replaced with plastic in the early 50s. I will have to pattern recognition on the labels tomorrow.
@blewnote is going to make me ****** vegetables. Okay fine. Today is the day. Or rather tomorrow is the day. I will do the work on this tomorrow and try to defend my position. thank you sir, for forcing me out of my comfort zone lol.
Attaboy!
thank you sir, for forcing me out of my comfort zone lol.So the onion skin liner, I think, was replaced with plastic in the early 50s. I will have to pattern recognition on the labels tomorrow.
Attaboy!
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Judgmentalist
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Very curious what the forum has against e ating v egetables@blewnote is going to make me ****** vegetables. Okay fine. Today is the day. Or rather tomorrow is the day. I will do the work on this tomorrow and try to defend my position.
So the onion skin liner, I think, was replaced with plastic in the early 50s. I will have to pattern recognition on the labels tomorrow.
Alright, here's a new one for me today. I took a wild guess that it was a panama and not a shantung or some other type of straw and it paid off. Haven't seen any Resistol Monte Cristis posted here before, so I don't really have much to go off of for this one.
The leather is nice, it looks to be a very fine weave. From what I've read in the Resistol thread, the shield with Byer & Rolnick was used until the mid 60s but this leather seems nicer than the San Antonio type one I have from the mid-60s. It has a gold line on it though, which I feel like is something I associate with much newer hats so I'm a bit perplexed.
I peeked under the sweatband a little and don't see any tags. If I had to hazard a guess I'd go with 1950s for age, but I'm really just making a stab in the dark. Please chime in anyone if they know more about Resistol history!
It's kinda dirty and the brim is wonky. I'm about to post in the Ask A Question thread to see if anyone has tips on cleaning panamas, because I haven't found what appears to be great instructions in the discussions here (at least my searching hasn't dug anything up that was convincing enough I want to try it) and I may bite the ****** on this one and see what Optimo would charge to fix it up for me if no one has good suggestions.
I have seen the higher grade panamas discussed but I am not sure I ever handled one until today and I guess I can see what all the fuss is about now. It's a pretty amazingly fine weave. I don't know that I care enough to want to cough up what they cost new, but this one came at a steal.
The last pic is with my Northwest Panama brim next to it for comparison. Anyone have any thoughts on why it looks like there's stuff in between the weaves on the Resistol? That's just years of accumulated ***k? Shellac? Or do they do something to the fine weaves to help give them strength?
The leather is nice, it looks to be a very fine weave. From what I've read in the Resistol thread, the shield with Byer & Rolnick was used until the mid 60s but this leather seems nicer than the San Antonio type one I have from the mid-60s. It has a gold line on it though, which I feel like is something I associate with much newer hats so I'm a bit perplexed.
I peeked under the sweatband a little and don't see any tags. If I had to hazard a guess I'd go with 1950s for age, but I'm really just making a stab in the dark. Please chime in anyone if they know more about Resistol history!
It's kinda dirty and the brim is wonky. I'm about to post in the Ask A Question thread to see if anyone has tips on cleaning panamas, because I haven't found what appears to be great instructions in the discussions here (at least my searching hasn't dug anything up that was convincing enough I want to try it) and I may bite the ****** on this one and see what Optimo would charge to fix it up for me if no one has good suggestions.
I have seen the higher grade panamas discussed but I am not sure I ever handled one until today and I guess I can see what all the fuss is about now. It's a pretty amazingly fine weave. I don't know that I care enough to want to cough up what they cost new, but this one came at a steal.
The last pic is with my Northwest Panama brim next to it for comparison. Anyone have any thoughts on why it looks like there's stuff in between the weaves on the Resistol? That's just years of accumulated ***k? Shellac? Or do they do something to the fine weaves to help give them strength?
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Judgmentalist
One Too Many
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- 1,111
Ooohh… that is cool. Get pictures of a ruler against the sidewall of the crown. One vertical and one horizontal, parallel to the weave.
No idea if Resistol did anything weird to Panamas, but as far as I’m aware there is no reason for there to be any substance embedded in the weave.
Judgmentalist
One Too Many
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Not exactly new, but I just got this one back with the new ribbon.
PHD — this one originally had a bright red pugaree, and I asked Mr. Fawcett to make this ribbon for me and send it along with my new hat. If you aren’t aware, Mr. Fawcett occasionally has a new-production rabbit-felt hat pop up on eBay, and the account that lists those hats also sometimes offers pre-made ribbons. That’s why I felt reasonably comfortable asking him for one that would suit this purpose.
I then gave both the hat and ribbon to a friend of mine, who took approximately one eternity to swap them out. Apparently it wasn’t a high-priority task for her, but then again she refused to charge me anything despite my best efforts to the contrary, so… here we are.
Apparently she had some trouble getting the ribbon to lie completely flat against the hat. We needed to stay with a fairly tall ribbon because the pugaree that had been there before was tall as well.
Still, I should get to wear it a couple of times before we pack the Panamas away for the season. The sweatbands on these aren’t my favorite, but they do the job. I may also need to give the brim a little steam to put some more fedora shape back into it.
PHD Panama with replacement ribbon by Mr. Fawcett — much appreciated.
PHD — this one originally had a bright red pugaree, and I asked Mr. Fawcett to make this ribbon for me and send it along with my new hat. If you aren’t aware, Mr. Fawcett occasionally has a new-production rabbit-felt hat pop up on eBay, and the account that lists those hats also sometimes offers pre-made ribbons. That’s why I felt reasonably comfortable asking him for one that would suit this purpose.
I then gave both the hat and ribbon to a friend of mine, who took approximately one eternity to swap them out. Apparently it wasn’t a high-priority task for her, but then again she refused to charge me anything despite my best efforts to the contrary, so… here we are.
Apparently she had some trouble getting the ribbon to lie completely flat against the hat. We needed to stay with a fairly tall ribbon because the pugaree that had been there before was tall as well.
Still, I should get to wear it a couple of times before we pack the Panamas away for the season. The sweatbands on these aren’t my favorite, but they do the job. I may also need to give the brim a little steam to put some more fedora shape back into it.
PHD Panama with replacement ribbon by Mr. Fawcett — much appreciated.
jeffgarf
One Too Many
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- 1,726
- Location
- Jerusalem, Israel
Just received this one from France and, thanks to confirmation from @Daniele Tanto , we know that Borsalino acquired the Vanzina company in the 50's. This is a late 70's hat, imported to France. Very different feel from a Borsalino, a fine but stiffer felt feel.
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That is gorgeous. What a fine weave.
Judgmentalist
One Too Many
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This is a very cool hat from a brand I had never heard of before @jeffgarf brought it to my attention.
It’s a Portis “Crest” in medium brown, size 7 3/8, with a “Swan’s Down Finish” liner and “Swansback Water Repellent Cushion Band” sweatband treatment. The retailer was Wagner Bros. in Ellinwood, Kansas.
The Portis Brothers Hat Co. was founded in Chicago in 1914 by five brothers: Isadore, Arnold, Theodore, Lyon, and Henry. Drawing on their previous experience in the hat business, they built the company around an unusually cooperative management structure—“All for one, one for all.” For more than 25 years, the five brothers reportedly drew identical salaries and held equal votes in company decisions.
With headquarters in Chicago and a major plant in Michigan City, Indiana, Portis eventually became one of the larger American hat manufacturers, ranking around tenth nationally and producing roughly a million hats a year at its peak. The company remained independent until the late 1960s, when Portis was acquired by Stevens Hats of St. Joseph, Missouri.
The Crest was one of Portis’ named lines. Some surviving examples have the same pugaree-like twisted ribbon treatment, with a mother-of-pearl ring applied over the crossover. Mine has the pugaree treatment without the ring.
The hat still has its United Hatters union label under the sweat, along with factory/lot number 218039. I haven’t found a reliable Portis numbering system that lets me decode that into a date.
Based on the Crest designation, Swan’s Down/Swansback branding, union label, retailer history, and the overall proportions, I’d put it broadly in the late 1940s through the 1950s. I’d be interested to hear what the Portis experts think.
The felt is probably my favorite part. “Swan’s Down” appears to have been Portis’ name for this particularly soft, smooth finish, and this one really does have a lovely hand to it. Tall crown, generous bound brim, narrow ribbon, and very clean period proportions.
Also worth noting that “Swan’s Down Finish” and “Swansback Water Repellent” are two different Portis terms on the same hat—the former referring to the felt finish, the latter to the water-repellent treatment/cushion-band system.
Very cool hat, and a lot of fun to wear.
Thanks, Jeff.
Portis “Crest”
It’s a Portis “Crest” in medium brown, size 7 3/8, with a “Swan’s Down Finish” liner and “Swansback Water Repellent Cushion Band” sweatband treatment. The retailer was Wagner Bros. in Ellinwood, Kansas.
The Portis Brothers Hat Co. was founded in Chicago in 1914 by five brothers: Isadore, Arnold, Theodore, Lyon, and Henry. Drawing on their previous experience in the hat business, they built the company around an unusually cooperative management structure—“All for one, one for all.” For more than 25 years, the five brothers reportedly drew identical salaries and held equal votes in company decisions.
With headquarters in Chicago and a major plant in Michigan City, Indiana, Portis eventually became one of the larger American hat manufacturers, ranking around tenth nationally and producing roughly a million hats a year at its peak. The company remained independent until the late 1960s, when Portis was acquired by Stevens Hats of St. Joseph, Missouri.
The Crest was one of Portis’ named lines. Some surviving examples have the same pugaree-like twisted ribbon treatment, with a mother-of-pearl ring applied over the crossover. Mine has the pugaree treatment without the ring.
The hat still has its United Hatters union label under the sweat, along with factory/lot number 218039. I haven’t found a reliable Portis numbering system that lets me decode that into a date.
Based on the Crest designation, Swan’s Down/Swansback branding, union label, retailer history, and the overall proportions, I’d put it broadly in the late 1940s through the 1950s. I’d be interested to hear what the Portis experts think.
The felt is probably my favorite part. “Swan’s Down” appears to have been Portis’ name for this particularly soft, smooth finish, and this one really does have a lovely hand to it. Tall crown, generous bound brim, narrow ribbon, and very clean period proportions.
Also worth noting that “Swan’s Down Finish” and “Swansback Water Repellent” are two different Portis terms on the same hat—the former referring to the felt finish, the latter to the water-repellent treatment/cushion-band system.
Very cool hat, and a lot of fun to wear.
Thanks, Jeff.
Portis “Crest”
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Judgmentalist
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,111
A few more photos.This is a very cool hat from a brand I had never heard of before @jeffgarf brought it to my attention.
It’s a Portis “Crest” in medium brown, size 7 3/8, with a “Swan’s Down Finish” liner and “Swansback Water Repellent Cushion Band” sweatband treatment. The retailer was Wagner Bros. in Ellinwood, Kansas.
The Portis Brothers Hat Co. was founded in Chicago in 1914 by five brothers: Isadore, Arnold, Theodore, Lyon, and Henry. Drawing on their previous experience in the hat business, they built the company around an unusually cooperative management structure—“All for one, one for all.” For more than 25 years, the five brothers reportedly drew identical salaries and held equal votes in company decisions.
With headquarters in Chicago and a major plant in Michigan City, Indiana, Portis eventually became one of the larger American hat manufacturers, ranking around tenth nationally and producing roughly a million hats a year at its peak. The company remained independent until the late 1960s, when Portis was acquired by Stevens Hats of St. Joseph, Missouri.
The Crest was one of Portis’ named lines. Some surviving 1940s Crest examples have a particularly neat detail: instead of a conventional ribbon bow, the ribbon is gathered through a mother-of-pearl ring. Mine has the more conventional bow treatment, so apparently Crest wasn’t limited to that one configuration.
The hat still has its United Hatters union label under the sweat, along with factory/lot number 218039. I haven’t found a reliable Portis numbering system that lets me decode that into a date.
Based on the Crest designation, Swan’s Down/Swansback branding, union label, retailer history, and the overall proportions, I’d put it broadly in the late 1940s through the 1950s. I’d be interested to hear what the Portis experts think.
The felt is probably my favorite part. “Swan’s Down” appears to have been Portis’ name for this particularly soft, smooth finish, and this one really does have a lovely hand to it. Tall crown, generous bound brim, narrow ribbon, and very clean period proportions.
Also worth noting that “Swan’s Down Finish” and “Swansback Water Repellent” are two different Portis terms on the same hat—the former referring to the felt finish, the latter to the water-repellent treatment/cushion-band system.
Very cool hat, and a lot of fun to wear.
Thanks, Jeff.
Portis “Crest”
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I haven’t yet found a photo of the building actually operating as Wagner Bros., but here’s an older shot and a modern view of the Cyclone Building where the store was located.
Here is a shot of one showing the MOP ring
- Messages
- 18,408
- Location
- Maryland
Dobesch Wien "PRÄSIDENT", 57 CM, possibly 1970s. The Blue Felt has a nice Smooth Finish. It's Machined Blocked but has a interesting Form for being later. Also has well executed Box Bow. It was sold out of the German Market. I need to check into how long Dobesch Wien lasted.
Open Crown
Natural Light
Open Crown
Natural Light
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