You know you are getting old when:

[vitanola]

One of the hardest things in the world to do is to get someone who has most of their money tied up in one very successful company (usually they worked there, got the stock over decades as compensation and never sold a share - and they were lucky to have worked for a company that did well and grew much larger over that time) to diversify (sell some of the shares of that company and buy a broader mix of assets) to protect their financial well being from that one company failing at some point in the future.

I sold my little telecom firm to WorldCom in '97. Received a big (to me) block of stock which was my primary compensation. Before I could re-deploy my assets MCI was absorbed by Worldcom, and under the terms of the merger my stock was tied up until 2004. Like many other shareholders I could take dividends but could not sell more than a small percentage of my holdings until then. Then came March of '02...

 

[Fading Fast]

I sold my little telecom firm to WorldCom in '97. Received a big (to me) block of stock which was my primary compensation. Before I could re-deploy my assets MCI was absorbed by Worldcom, and under the terms of the merger my stock was tied up until 2004. Like many other shareholders I could take dividends but could not sell more than a small percentage of my holdings until then. Then came March of '02...

Yup, been stuck inside many of those rules and regs cat's cradles myself. They were created, in part, by a progressive outcry to prevent CEOs and other "fat cats" from cashing in quick profits on stock and stock option compensation (and, in theory, to align them to the company's long-term interests), but as with all well-intended rules, regs and laws in finance, they also catch a lot of not fat cats like you and me (who still holds some nearly worthless bank stocks and options that I couldn't sell because they were "restricted" prior to 2007 - and nobody ever mistook me for a fat cat - and nobody cares that I lost a lot of my compensation from those years through no fault of my own).

 

[vitanola]

Yup, been stuck inside many of those rules and regs cat's cradles myself. They were created, in part, by a progressive outcry to prevent CEOs and other "fat cats" from cashing in quick profits on stock and stock option compensation (and, in theory, to align them to the company's long-term interests), but as with all well-intended rules, regs and laws in finance, they also catch a lot of not fat cats like you and me (who still holds some nearly worthless bank stocks and options that I couldn't sell because they were "restricted" prior to 2007 - and nobody ever mistook me for a fat cat - and nobody cares that I lost a lot of my compensation from those years through no fault of my own).

No. IN this case the restriction had, it appears, been imposed as a means of preventing certain stockholders from selling out, so that the stock price could more easily be "boomed" (that is manipulated). Remember that the firm (using questionable legal strategy, the acceptability of which was never finally adjudicated) converted the defined benefit pension plans of tens of thousands of employees and retirees into 401K plans invested entirely in WorldCom stock. This had the effect of insulating tens of millions of shares from the market. Note that the retirees were also prevented from selling their shares of the firm.

Of course I hired at great expense a reputable accounting firm and a major law firm to do due diligence before the sale of my little company. Like so many others, we were all fooled by the extensive and pervasive fraud in which the promoters of WorldCom were engaged for so many years. Bernie Ebers made Ivar Krueger look like a piker.

 

[Fading Fast]

No. IN this case the restriction had, it appears, been imposed as a means of preventing certain stockholders from selling out, so that the stock price could more easily be "boomed" (that is manipulated). Remember that the firm (using questionable legal strategy, the acceptability of which was never finally adjudicated) converted the defined benefit pension plans of tens of thousands of employees and retirees into 401K plans invested entirely in WorldCom stock. This had the effect of insulating tens of millions of shares from the market. Note that the retirees were also prevented from selling their shares of the firm.

Of course I hired at great expense a reputable accounting firm and a major law firm to do due diligence before the sale of my little company. Like so many others, we were all fooled by the extensive and pervasive fraud in which the promoters of WorldCom were engaged for so many years. Bernie Ebers made Ivar Krueger look like a piker.

Ugh, you did get, despite your best and smart efforts, sucked into one of the ugliest and nastiest frauds in recent corporate history. It's amazing how ofter the same story gets repeated just with some tweaking and new players. In the mid-90's, the define benefits plan I was in was "converted" and went through years of lawsuits as the quantity given to those of us that had vested was based on a very-favorable-to-the-company formula. Fraud, greed, cheating just beat down the innocent. After that bit of corporate fraud I, then, took another hit as the gov't (putatively to protect me) locked my compensation up so long that it became worthless after 2007. I work for myself now not because it is more profitable (it isn't, but I'm closing the gap), but because I couldn't take all the corporate and gov't regulatory BS and worse at "regulated" firms.

 

[vitanola]

Well, in the aftermath of the Great Depression pension plans were strait-jacketed into blue-chip investments of sufficient quantity to fund any possible withdrawals. In the early years of the Reagan administration the rules regulating pension plans were loosened to "release excess value". This helped to fund the Leveraged Buy Out mania of the 1980s, with the "excess value" in the pension funds used to pay off the onerous debt. To everyone's suprise (well everyone except we old-time New Dealers) It was subsequently found that these pension funds were somehow under funded, and they were of necessity either turned over to the PBCG or converted into defined contribution 401K plans.

Who could possibly have known?

 

[Fading Fast]

Well, in the aftermath of the Great Depression pension plans were strait-jacketed into blue-chip investments of sufficient quantity to fund any possible withdrawals. In the early years of the Reagan administration the rules regulating pension plans were loosened to "release excess value". This helped to fund the Leveraged Buy Out mania of the 1980s, with the "excess value" in the pension funds used to pay off the onerous debt. To everyone's suprise (well everyone except we old-time New Dealers) It was subsequently found that these pension funds were somehow under funded, and they were of necessity either turned over to the PBCG or converted into defined contribution 401K plans.

Who could possibly have known?

Worse, today, gov't managed retirement funds - city and state gov't ones - are funded at, on average, much less than the private ones. I know I've read recently that gov't ones are funded in the sixty cents on the dollar area; whereas, private ones are in the eighties. Neither has anything to be proud of but you would think the gov't ones would be managed better not worse.

 

[vitanola]

Worse, today, gov't managed retirement funds - city and state gov't ones - are funded at, on average, much less than the private ones. I know I've read recently that gov't ones are funded in the sixty cents on the dollar area; whereas, private ones are in the eighties. Neither has anything to be proud of but you would think the gov't ones would be managed better not worse.

Yes.

I know here in Ohio there was quite a scandal a few years ago when state pension funds invested very heavily in rare coins and other dodgy "investments" promoted by heavy donors to the Republican party. Although the losses were seen in five state pension funds as well as the Workers Compensation fund, and although the failed investments included fraudulent securities in addition to rare coins, the prosecutions were limited to the coin scam, for by the time all came to light the GFC had come upon us, and the promoters of the other fraudulent schemes were able to plausibly posit that they were just bad investments, like so many others in those dark days.

In 1996, the Ohio state legislature, on a party line vote, barely pushed through a law which struck the Progressive Era requirement that the state invest only in bonds. The legislation was written by a group of politically connected investors which half jokingly called itself "The Ohio Coalition for a Permanent Republican Majority". The idea (as explained in open court under oath) was to capture profits from the sale of investments to the state and recycle them into political contributions to better fund the party. Unfortunately, after a few years some of the dealers involved in the scheme got greedy, and instead of merely taking commissions which they would recycle into contributions, they began creating more profitable "investments" for the state so that they themselves could capture a greater portion of this flow if illicit cash.

 

[Fading Fast]

Yes.

I know here in Ohio there was quite a scandal a few years ago when state pension funds invested very heavily in rare coins and other dodgy "investments" promoted by heavy donors to the Republican party. Although the losses were seen in five state pension funds as well as the Workers Compensation fund, and although the failed investments included fraudulent securities in addition to rare coins, the prosecutions were limited to the coin scam, for by the time all came to light the GFC had come upon us, and the promoters of the other fraudulent schemes were able to plausibly posit that they were just bad investments, like so many others in those dark days.

In 1996, the Ohio state legislature, on a party line vote, barely pushed through a law which struck the Progressive Era requirement that the state invest only in bonds. The legislation was written by a group of politically connected investors which half jokingly called itself "The Ohio Coalition for a Permanent Republican Majority". The idea (as explained in open court under oath) was to capture profits from the sale of investments to the state and recycle them into political contributions to better fund the party. Unfortunately, after a few years some of the dealers involved in the scheme got greedy, and instead of merely taking commissions which they would recycle into contributions, they began creating more profitable "investments" for the state so that they themselves could capture a greater portion of this flow if illicit cash.

Republican and Democrat controlled state and local gov't both have a long list of similar-to-Ohio's scandals. And more are to come. Neither party has a monopoly on corruption or devious dealing in pension funds. New York State - and I've lost track - has had an almost rolling scandal (for the thirty or so years I've been paying attention) of Republican and Democratic kickbacks, pay for play, etc. scandals related to the administration of various state pension funds.

There's one going on now in NY that I'm not even following as it simply gets tiring to read the same venality and to know that it isn't going to change. Detroit which has had nothing but hard left Democratic liberal gov't since the '70s (maybe earlier) was a cesspool of corruption related to, but not limited to, its pension plans that finally blew up several years back. And I was only a kid, but I remember a bunch of NJ Republicans caught up in one in the 70s as well.

 

[Inkstainedwretch]

Could've been worse. They might have invested it all in Beanie Babies.

 

[vitanola]

Republican and Democrat controlled state and local gov't both have a long list of similar-to-Ohio's scandals. And more are to come. Neither party has a monopoly on corruption or devious dealing in pension funds. New York State - and I've lost track - has had an almost rolling scandal (for the thirty or so years I've been paying attention) of Republican and Democratic kickbacks, pay for play, etc. scandals related to the administration of various state pension funds.

There's one going on now in NY that I'm not even following as it simply gets tiring to read the same venality and to know that it isn't going to change. Detroit which has had nothing but hard left Democratic liberal gov't since the '70s (maybe earlier) was a cesspool of corruption related to, but not limited to, its pension plans that finally blew up several years back. And I was only a kid, but I remember a bunch of NJ Republicans caught up in one in the 70s as well.

Yes. I concentrate on the venality of Republicans because they have been the majority party in the states in which I have lived for most of my adult life. Any time one party stays in control from decade to decade corruption develops. That is why I so firmly believe in opening all records to public inspection.

You know, there is more to the Flint water scandal than is commonly reported. The ursprung of the problem was the attempt of several powerful political players in Michigan to undermine the (already shaky) finances of (historically mismanaged) the Detroit public water system and force its privatization. A consortium including the Nestle Company and the DeVos family had hoped to purchase the system so that they might have the ability to sell Great Lakes basin water to the arid West in contravention of the GLC.

 

[Fading Fast]

⇧ I've only lived in Democrat-dominated states - hence, our different perspectives on the same ugliness.

 

[BobHufford]

When you hear the same "Blondie" song used in a Wal-Mart and a Swiffer commercial just 30 seconds apart.

 

[vitanola]

When you hear the same "Blondie" song used in a Wal-Mart and a Swiffer commercial just 30 seconds apart.

I have never once heard one of the songs that I played in my youth used in an advertisement on the television, unless one counts the parody of "Look For the Silver Lining" which was used by the International Ladies Garment Worker's Union some forty years past.

 

[Inkstainedwretch]

I was outraged some years ago when Janis Joplin's "Mercedes Benz" was used in a Mercedes Benz commercial. Poor Janis must have been rolling over in her grave.

 

[Trenchfriend]

I'm born in late 1984, but hearing The Byrds makes me feel nostalgic, heavily. The Byrds are so much underrepresented, here in Germany!

 

[tonyb]

When your mother suggests that you might find people with similar interests at the local senior center.

Yes, this really happened. Yesterday, over the phone.

 

[Fading Fast]

When your mother suggests that you might find people with similar interests at the local senior center.

Yes, this really happened. Yesterday, over the phone.

Ouch.

 

[Zombie_61]

When your mother suggests that you might find people with similar interests at the local senior center.

Yes, this really happened. Yesterday, over the phone.

My father-in-law was 72 years old when my mother-in-law died in 1986. They had been married more than 40 years, so he was somewhat lost without her. My wife suggested a number of times that he get out of the house and visit a local senior center, but he had spent most of his adult life working to provide for his family and felt he would have nothing in common with the people there. To our surprise he actually visited that senior center one day, and when my wife later asked if he liked it his immediate response was, "No. They're a bunch of old people." He went on to explain that he'd arrived early in the morning and spent a few hours chatting with people, but when lunchtime came around he excused himself to eat lunch at home and never returned. "They were nice, but all they do is sit around playing cards and talking. I don't want to do that."

Mind you, this was a man who visited his doctor one day when he was in his early-80s because he would get up early to do yardwork--tend to the garden, trim the hedge, prune the fruit trees, mow the lawn, and so on--and after a few hours he would get tired and have to go inside and sit down to rest for a while. "That never used to happen to me," he explained. His doctor just looked at him and asked, "How old are you???" In addition to his advanced age he was suffering from congestive heart failure and chronic lymphocytic leukemia, yet his doctor had to explain to him that it was perfectly normal for a man his age to become fatigued easier than when he was younger. He was living proof that age is only a number.

 

[tonyb]

My father-in-law was 72 years old when my mother-in-law died in 1986. They had been married more than 40 years, so he was somewhat lost without her. My wife suggested a number of times that he get out of the house and visit a local senior center, but he had spent most of his adult life working to provide for his family and felt he would have nothing in common with the people there. To our surprise he actually visited that senior center one day, and when my wife later asked if he liked it his immediate response was, "No. They're a bunch of old people." He went on to explain that he'd arrived early in the morning and spent a few hours chatting with people, but when lunchtime came around he excused himself to eat lunch at home and never returned. "They were nice, but all they do is sit around playing cards and talking. I don't want to do that."

Mind you, this was a man who visited his doctor one day when he was in his early-80s because he would get up early to do yardwork--tend to the garden, trim the hedge, prune the fruit trees, mow the lawn, and so on--and after a few hours he would get tired and have to go inside and sit down to rest for a while. "That never used to happen to me," he explained. His doctor just looked at him and asked, "How old are you???" In addition to his advanced age he was suffering from congestive heart failure and chronic lymphocytic leukemia, yet his doctor had to explain to him that it was perfectly normal for a man his age to become fatigued easier than when he was younger. He was living proof that age is only a number.

I'm all for recreation, which I don't consider a waste of time. And for chewing the fat with people who have something of interest to say. But as I get older I find myself less tolerant of wasted efforts. Making things more difficult than they have to be has long seemed a waste of one's life to me.

 

[scottyrocks]

I've finally gotten back to working on old cars. I suspect I'll do it until I can't move anymore.